SS Pre-amps that can beat an Audio Research sp16

Thanks Cz. Will take a look.

Anyone who has heard sp16 and can compare the sound to any specific SS pre-amp, I'm interested in what you might have heard..

10-29-13: Mapman
Not certain but I think frequency bandwidth is the main thing that a good SS pre-amp might be able to best the ARC in. THat an dnoise levels, but noise levels have not been a big issue with the ARC either, though I have had to replace tubes a couple time over the years to keep things that way, espeically the #1 tube in the phono stage.

I do not use the phono stage that much these days yet the 3 pho stage tubes are in play whenever I use the ARC, shortening their life.

At this stage, I'm just thinking that I might be better served over the long term by a good SS pre-amp with no phono and adding a separate phono stage (maybe tube) that is only on when I use it.

Hi Mapman,

I have no specific preamp suggestions to offer (some good ones appear to have been made by the others already), but I would offer the following thoughts:

1)Regarding high frequency bandwidth, by far a greater limiting factor than the preamp appears to be your amplifier. The 3db bandwidth of the SP16's line section is specified to exceed a range of 0.5 Hz to 100 kHz, while as shown in JA's measurements the upper 3db frequency of the amp is in the area of only 25 to 40 kHz, depending on the impedance of the speakers at high frequencies. And into 4 ohms, significant (~1db) rolloff occurs at about 20 kHz.

2)JA's measurements of the amplifier's intermodulation distortion performance are suggestive of the possibility that using it in conjunction with a preamp having very wide bandwidth might even be audibly counter-productive.

3)If you want to ultimately consider a tube-based phono stage, FWIW if I were considering a phono stage upgrade now, based on many comments I have read number 1 on my list of candidates would be the Herron VTPH-2, at $3,650.

Best regards,
-- Al

Never heard the sp16 but did own the Bel Canto Pre3 as well as a few other ss preamps. IMO the pre3 provides absolute neutrality. The volume goes up and down smoothly with not a hint of coloration no matter the setting.
If separates were in my future, for the money, the pre3 would be the preamp.

I owned an SP-16 for a few years. It was a nice piece and I did not find it particularly noisy. I wonder whether your tubes may be up for replacement? I thought the linestage on that unit was quite good, though with a fairly healthy dose of tube flavor compared to LS26 I owned. The weakness of the SP16, IMHO, is the phonostage so your idea about a separate phono may be a good direction to go. In any case, you may want to throw your amps into the mix since this may open up greater possibilities for electronics that meet your goals. You may come up with a more synergistic combination this way than if you try to find a preamp that will integrate seamlessly with your amps. Just a thought...

Al, yes I know what you are saying about bandwidth of the Class D amps. Newer Class Ds appear to be pushing the barrier significantly and I have an eye on that perhaps for the future.

When I mention bandwidth, what I am really looking for is better low end extension. Sp 16 has very clean and articulate bass but not as extended as even my old Carver pre-amp, though the sp16 whoops it in most every other way. I think I have read that is one of sp16s limitations. When I listen to say a well recorded pipe organ, I think I can hear this. Otherwise, it leaves little for me to want.

Amps are staying for now. I figure the longer I hold off on newer Class D amps, the better and more affordable good products will become. Besides, my 50+ year old ears do not hear much above 12Khz or so anymore. Not that higher bandwidth for better high end extension might not still be better, but not something that bothers me in practice. The BC amps do most everything that I know I can hear quite well, especially with my big OHM 5 speakers, which are not going anywhere My other smaller speakers in smaller rooms are less challenging to drive to their max.