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Objective vs. Placebo relating to system changes

I am continually baffled by the number of people that are convinced that changes to power cords, speaker wires, interconnects, etc. in their systems result is objectively real changes. While I won't go so far as saying that making these changes absolutely doesn't make a difference, I would love to have the resources to challenge people prove it to me and test it with my own ears.

Here's what I would do if time and financial resources were no object (I'm visualizing retired millionaires that are audiophiles).

I would build a listening room where the only components in the listening space were the speakers and the speaker cables coming through opening in the wall where the rest of the system was setup. The idea would be to allow the test subject the opportunity to create their system of choice and then have the opportunity to become very familiar with the system by spending hours listening. Then I would let them know when I was going to start changing different components on them on a very random basis and they should report any changes that they heard so we could link the changes to any potential changes on the other side of the wall.

Here's a short list of things that I'd try:

(1) I would replace the upgraded power cord with the stock unit.
(2) I would install or remove isolation (e.g. Nordost sort kones) devices from a component.
(3) I would replace interconnects with basic quailty products.
(4) I would replace well "broken-in" cables with otherwise identical new ones.

Depending on the results of doing these test slowly over a period of time I would consider swapping out some of the more major components to see how obvious a macro change was if the listener wasn't aware that a change had been made.

I can tell the difference between new and broken in speakers (on ones that I'm familiar with) so I know this break-in is very real and would also not be at all surprised with differences from amplifiers and analog sources being obvious. I'm not as sure about digital sources.

So the question is, what components in your system would you be confident enough to bet, say $1,000, that you could identify that something changes if it was swapped out?

In my system I am sure that I could identify a change in amplification or speakers, but highly doubt that I could do the same with any cables, isolation devices, or digital sources. Maybe I just reduced myself to being a non-audiophile with low-fi gear?
mceljo
mceljo OP
1,357 posts
 
Zd542 - I realize that I'm asking somewhat unanswerable questions, but the intent is to make people think about how sure they are about the difference they hear.

I have Nordost Sort Kones under my SACD player and after several attempts to prove to myself that they did or did not make a difference I left them in and chock up the "improvement" that I convinced myself I heard to being primarily placebo. Even after coming to that conclusion I never took them back for a refund, which I could have done, and have never removed them from my system. What I am convinced about is that if my wife took them out and I couldn't visually tell the difference I'd never know.

I'm also convinced myself that I heard a difference between a $7 pair of hardware store speaker wires and a $2,000 pair something fancy, but it certainly wasn't a $1,997 improvement.

I am an engineer so my gears are always turning and thinking about this stuff.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
10-31-13: Mceljo
I am an engineer.

Say no more..nudge, nudge...wink, wink
sebrof's avatar
sebrof
837 posts
 
FWIW I use Cat 5 for speaker cables, and my power cords are DIY from clothes dryer cords just because I figured it can't be worse than a thin stock cord. But I've never sat and listened for more than a few minutes 'cause I have better things to do. I always have several things in mind I'd like to do that I'm pretty sure will have much more impact on sound than PCs, ICs, or SCs.

But - Assuming your system is up to date, maybe the first "test" you might consider is closing your eyes and have someone come in and set it up so there's not a big cart in the middle, and the speakers aren't straight and up against the wall. You'd probably hear that.
photon46
1,090 posts
 
In the sort of test you propose, I'd be willing to bet money on hearing the swap of my amp, preamp, phono cartridge, or speakers. The differences between my Luxman and Arcam cd players don't make themselves immediately obvious. Nor do changes to cables and isolation devices. However, over repeated listening to familiar recordings, I discern differences to subtle nuances of recordings with which I am familiar. We can make self deprecating comments about our systems being too low-fi to hear the effects of cable and isolation devices, but there is some truth to that. When I was starting out with Adcom amps, Denon cd players, and Maggie MGA's, I wasn't convinced I could hear that much improvement over cheap freebie cables with the the first set of "audiophile" cables I bought on the Cable Company's recommendation. But, as I got older and had more spare coin to indulge in my hobby, more resolving equipment did allow for easier discernment of the subtle changes cables and other tweaks brought to my system. I've never had any "jaw dropping" revelations with cable upgrades, but I've darn sure heard obvious improvements I didn't want to hear (because I didn't want to accept the fact that more money spent on cables would result in better sound.) I would caution both cable/isolation device skeptics and fanboys to remember none of these things are universally applicable. What works/doesn't work in your system doesn't mean your findings are applicable to a different set of components. I hear a difference when I install a Wireworld power cord on my RCM Sensor phono preamp, but I don't hear a difference between a Harmonic Technology and the stock power cord it came with. If I'd quit experimenting after trying the Harmonic Technology, I could have saved myself some money but I'd have only partially educated my ears.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,759 posts
 
Audiophiles care a lot about subtle things, a lot of which cannot be easily measured or quantified. It s kind of like The Twilight Zone. Hard to know the difference between what is real and what is not. One hears something, the next does not. A lot is hard to believe. The only way through is to trust ones own ears and proceed with a healthy dose of skepticism.
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