Can anything beat Vintage Amps for the $$$?


Restored Fisher, Scott, or Eico integrated amps can all be had for under $500. Do you think any new or used, tube or SS integrated amps can compete in this price range? Any opinions?
128x128jtnicolosi
I have not heard every $500 modern nor vintage integrated, but I don't think that the claims that vintage integrateds can be excellent value are exagerated. Here's my experience:

I own three integrateds for secondary sound systems, a Musical Fidelity A3 (paid $650 used), a Scott 222C ($250), and a Scott 299 ($300); I have also borrowed and listened to, a Creek A50 ($500 used). The two Scotts are similar enough that I will refer to them as one. It is true that the two modern amps (MF, Creek) are "cleaner" sounding than the Scotts, but in a HI-FI way. Are they "faster"? Not according to my definition of speed. The Scott's have the tube magic and musicality. They let subtle musical phrasing details come through that the two modern ss amps do not. They simply sound more alive, the sound is more active. By comparison, the two modern amps, particularly the MF, can sound dynamically dead: A dead corpse in a new, shiny, well pressed suit. Images have body and density with the Scotts, the two ss amps portray outlines of the images very well. The Scotts give you three dimensional images drawn with soft-brushed strokes, instead of flat images drawn with a sharp pencil, as with the modern amps. The Scotts, for some reason, let me enjoy the music, instead of always reminding me of how much better my main rig sounds.

The key here is, I think, price point. There is Jolida, and I'm not up on what used Jolidas go for. Also, I am pretty sure that something like a used older Audible Illusions (tubes) preamp mated to something like a used small Adcom (535?) for around $500, would beat a used Scott; maybe.

Good luck, I highly recommend the vintage route; at that price point.
Don't forget that a key component of any tube amplifier is the output transformers [except for OTL's, of course!] I know that there are people who search for these "classic" makes of vintage x-formers, much in the same way people search for vintage NOS tubes.
Hi,

Vintage can be very good. Again my EICO hf-81 is a treasure as far as I am concerned. And I do have modern ss and tube gear to compare it to.

A good article is here
http://www.stereophile.com//features/203/index.html

( about the emotional aspects of music ) which I think vitage gear appeals to.

good listening

Larry
I guess I will chime in on this one, although I usually just read.

About 4 months ago I bought a pair of (60's) McIntosh MC40 tube amps locally. I can't compare them to new equiptment, since I have never owned any. But I will say that if my system is missing anything, I really don't notice. I love it. I have it matched with a pair of (mid 70's) Altec 604-8G speakers and it makes great music to my ears. The midrange is especially wonderful. The Mc amps and the Altecs cost me $750, and I don't think I could find anything this musical in new gear for near that price. The longer I have it, the more I enjoy it. I sometimes wonder what I would hear with some of the newer gear talked about here, it might surprise me. But I think alot of guys would be surprised at what some good vintage can produce.

Also, for a preamp, I am using a 1969 vintage Sansui 1000A tube receiver. I only use it for it's phono and tuner, but I think it does a hell of a job.

I am thankful even us poorboy audio folks have a way to enjoy this hobby.

Steve
Steve:

I think you did vintage right as your main pieces ... amp; preamp; and speakers ... are all vintage. In fact, the preamps in some of these vintage receivers were outstanding. I have had good, but not great results pairing vintage receivers with modern speakers and CD players. One could claim that amplifier design has advanced only so far in the last 30 years (let's leave out digital amps for the moment), but speaker design and certainly the use of CD players add something different to the mix.

I thought that I would have liked vintage more than I have. I keep the Marantz receivers because they are decent performers and modern receivers are just terrible in comparison. I also use AR 302's as my main speakers, these are 11 year old remakes of the Acoustic Research AR5's from the 60's.

To my mind though, vintage works best when it has been restored and then the total price begins to approach modern components' price levels.

Regards, Rich