CJ vs. BAT vs. THOR preamps, who's best?

Blindjim,

I find both this and your thread on SET amps very interesting. Unlike other postings where someone would say, like you did, that they favor a "romantic" sound and something "darker" than neutral, you also follow up by saying what you have heard. That is extremely helpful and illustrative, because what I call romantic and darker than neutral can be completely different from someone elses idea of the same. Absent any other clues, my idea of romantic and dark sounding would be, for example LAMM, certainly not Thor or BAT.

Given your preferences, I would suggest you also look into the Audio Research Reference 3 (MUCH more "romantic" and less edgy sounding than anything prior in their line), and the VTL 7.5. Both are also very flexible and versatile and have amazing range of remotely controlled features (so too the Bat gear).

Far more than one has related that same story to me. things lose some credibility IMO when someone offs an $8K piece for $2K it plain doesn't make sense to me.
Blindjim

I agree to some extent, but I do consider mark up when looking at the list prices. Because CJ has to include dealer mark up (40%), advertising and marketing (40%), in their retail price, I figure the $8K CJ preamp could be had for $3K tops if selling factory direct. Now figure that the new AH owner spent over $3K with all of the upgrade packages, and it doesn't surprise me at all. You are basically comparing identically priced units. The CJ just cost more because you pay for the dealer mark up and advertising that gets you the glossy rags reviews. Pretty basic really.

You have to compare apples to apples. Comparing a famous brand $8K preamp to another famous brand $2K preamp is one thing, and I agree with you that many times a great reco here is just because the owner of the $2K unit cannot afford the $8K unit, so he claims his $2K unit outperformed it. However, do not underestimate the cost of doing business, and therefore underestimate the value of a factory direct product. Comparing the list prices in this situation is like comparing apples and oranges, IMHO.

John

Blindjim, John's advice to report the incident to Ayre might help the guys at AV South realize they could improve their sales techniques. I had a poor experience there myself years ago. I wanted to audition an Arcam 9 cd player, but I was told they didn't intend to have one on hand to audition and I'd have to pay in advance before they'd order one. I complained to Arcam and stirred up a hornet's nest apparently. George the owner called and apologized, they were a lot nicer the next time around. Even offered free home audition for something else later. It was deja vu all over again though when I went in and tried to audition Magnepan 3.6's last year. I was told they didn't stock them, didn't know when they'd ever get them, but they'd call me when they did. That was eight months ago and still no call.

can one of these preamps be the best, when they all sound different ? what does best mean ? what are the criteria for sonic excellence ?

John... you got a point there. Ego's a big deal with some folks in this hobby. A big deal. your point is quite valid though... if everything is on the square. I'd have loved to have tried out a thing which would have saved me a grand and some... for sure. i'd not do it now though. i'd feel way bad knowing I've already made a decision. sure wished I had known about the damn remote thingy sooner. I'd have taken a shot too. But I'm big on "Things always work out" so perhaps they did, huh? we'll see soon enough.

Photon46
Don't hold your breath. i was in there a couple years ago for a look see at a Linn int. When I saw it, and was told it needed special spkr wire connectors, and later found out the 75wpc were into 4 ohms vs 8. I declined. called back and said as much. During that deal they had some Revel studio 100s on clearance. $8K.. played it on the ayre gear then too. No dice for me. so they told me about the same thing you said. They were getting 3.6s in a couple weeks and to hear them before making a choice. I quit holding my breath before i got to the door. the Studios? they played them like they would blow up if played for more than 2 minutes. Apparently they've not made any changes in how they feel an audition should be done... I've had sneezes that took longer to finish.

Mrtennis

Now some year and change later, i sought herein to provide some closure as to the fact I wasn't wasting others' time, and tell all what I ultimately decided upon. That's all. to be sure during that time, I also learned much as to the objectivvity surrounding components. I ammended that misbegotten entry above.

But you are indeed correcct. Who's best is only answered by the buyer. The owner... and maybe not even then as more compromise went into the buying decision than was wanted for whatever reason (s). I apologize. Again. Eye of the beholder, and all that jazz.

The only pre I could not check out was the BAT. Also, had I not tried something different and found it to work beyond my expectations, and then sold my dear vk5i, I would not have put myself into a position to bet another either. I had to give myself a reason to "get off the dime" and do somethign. Taking action as is so appropriately espoused here, is indeed the best way to know. As my friend John says all the time... do the Audiogone "Buy & Try" shuffle. then, you know.

Well, you'll know some waht better... but I believe from experience, you'll only know for sure after doing the "mix and match" shuffle with wires on it too... and isoing... there is more to this deal than simple swapping of components in and out of ones' system to get the very best from them, as we have all seen. Everything makes a diff.

Truly, there is no 'best' there is only best for you. you gotta make that call. No one else Most times. I did buy the BAT gear only from other's opinions. they weren't a bad choice. Not at all, but I sure did a lot of other stuff to them afterwards.