Genuine Telefunken?

C,mon Jafox....I think you just might be trying to "out-fox" me!!??

Trust me..."That arm is incredibly good"!!Your system looks to be "incredibly good".Your experience seems to be the same,so don't assume you cannot get a bit more from "something" in the system,not allowing you to hear minor(which should be "instantly" heard)changes in the analog chain(vta)....I think if you look at other hobbyists comments,on the subject,it will reveal the vta impact,should be easily heard.

I mean this with the "utmost" respect,and am speaking as though you are a friend.Yet,I probably should just shut up.Please don't get peeved because there is a nice surprise in store for you,if you like to attempt to push the envelope.

We ALL have assumptions about some aspect of sonic performance, that winds up being changed,and surprising us from time to time!You have a high resolution set-up.Certainly high res enough to change your opinion of this vta "thing".You'll love the results,and can send me a nice bottle of wine,if you pursue this!! -:)I'd be happy with a nice Chardonnay,if you only get a small improvement,but I think I'll wind up with a BIG RED BARLOLO,because if you don't already think I am nuts,your in for a treat(it may take some work)!BTW,just kidding about the wine...just happy to see you get what you deserve from such a great system!

I think,with all of the associations you have,in the hobby,this VTA issue can open additional doorways to an already fabulous system!!You may want to hit me now,but might thank me at some future point.

A system as good as yours should,"absolutely",be capable of "easily" showing changes in VTA!Assuming the fluid in the bearing cap is not set too high(minimum gains openness,maximum damps down sound).I had my fluid(using my old Transfig Temper-V)at 1/3 way up the bearing "square.I'll assume everything else is doing what it should,but maybe some tubes need replacing?Ya never know.

Sorry if I'm pissing you off,but you seem like a great guy,and this is the place to have some fun...

Besides Minn. is far enough for you to not want to attempt to beat me up,since I am on the East Coast. -:)

I have a sneaky suspicion that if you actually address this subject(aren't you sorry you mentioned the vta "thing"?)you will be in for a revelation!!

Best Regards

John,I just got off the phone with Steve Huntley,as he is doing some new update work for me.

The subject of PW tubes came up,as did your name.Steve thinks you a super fellow btw,and a very knowledgeable hobbyist.

Also,he mentioned your IO sounded amazing with the PW's!

Maybe I should have kept quiet! -:)

Best

Sirspeedy...Thank you for the light kicks your sending my way. And yes, I am a sly Fox. 8-) But in all honesty, a year or so ago I played with the VTA on the Graham and on the Zeta (Pete Riggle device) and I did not hear the magnitudes of differences as reported by others. Had I listened harder and spent more time I likely would have heard greater differences. But I was overwhelmed with the major gains elsewhere (tube-rolling and cable changes). I had no patience for subtleties at that time. And keep in mind, "subtleties" are relative. When you hear the effects that tubes and cables can make like they do here, this is MAJOR vs. VTA.

I have since re-cabled the system, changed to the RLS Haley, found an outstanding triplet of small-signal tubes for the JL-3s, and now the stunning Aria WV. I have detail unlike ever before and the 3D magic remains. And so a re-visit to the VTA scene is warranted.

I checked the damping fluid in the 2.2 and it is 3/8" down from the top of the reservoir when the cap is removed. Is this too much or too little? But with the hyper-detail now due to the Aria, I am spending more time with the Koetsu RWS and that's on the Zeta and Hyperphono cable.

So today I just grabbed an LP off the Shelf. One of the later Heart releases. With the Koetsu body parallel to the LP as I have always set it, I listened to a track a few times. Then I adjusted the Zeta VTA to put the back of the cartridge tilted down, not drastically, but very noticeable when viewing this. The dynamics and dimensionality of the singer's voice changed little for me to hear any difference. But the tonality was significant. There was now a definite brightness and fatigue to her voice. I went back to the parallel position and much much more natural. I then went the other way, cartridge front titled down with 4-5 turns and now the top-end has much reduced life. At least the result was consistent! Does this match your past observations? So this one quick test brings an immediate conclusion to me: VTA (on the Koetsus RWS anyway) greatly affects the resultant energy in the upper octaves, and thus affects treble tonality and perceived treble detail, but the other sonic parameters were pretty much unaffected. I now hear how dialing this in can help to find a good balance between smoothness and treble detail/energy, almost like a tone control! So thanks for nudging me to play again. However, I will resist to become one of those obsessed with 1/16 turns on the dial for each LP.....just not gonna happen!

With the cartridge parallel to the LP again, I swapped one 7062 for another (smooth plate vs PW) in the Aria line stage. Tonality nearly identical but now a reduction in dynamic contrasts but more presence of reflections, almost like echo of the singer's voice off the wall behind the speakers. And then a change to the Aria's 6v setting and Valvo ECC88 PWs. Wow, those 6922 family tubes just don't do it vs. the 7062. Such a big drop in air and harmonic overtones.

So clearly the tube changes are affecting the sound in ways the VTA clearly does not with the Koetsu anyway. I understand that dialing all these in is critical. And coincidentally, I had the Koetsu at a great position all along with it parallel to the LP. I'll see what I can do with slight tweaks from this position and then leave it there.

As for working with Steve of GNSC, this gets my highest recommendation. The result is outstanding for someone who has a great performing product and wants to take it to the next level without going crazy with the cost. And yes, Steve helped to get the Io's noise level way down by tracking down and replacing one noisy socket. And I found another quiet pair of tubes for the other channel's input. Before that, I never heard the Io's noise level so low. When things slow down here. I'll get back to GNSC so Steve can see and hear the Aria. I bet it will be incredible in his BAT/Avalon room. Gosh that sounds so wonderful. So let me know how it works when you get your components back from GNSC.

John

OK John,one thing I want to make clear is that I am in "no way" too serious about pushing you,in a direction you don't want to go in!

It's really just hobbyspeak to me,so do what you feel comfy with.That being said,let's take the gloves off-:)....

Firstly I've been through the cable wars,tube rolling times,and the multitude of "virtually anything" I could come up with myself.I also have a close friend who has been obsessed with cable changes,and Line Conditioning "type" products for too long a time.He has a very similar set-up as me,so he is a superb "lab mouse",and I benefit greatly from this.Yes,they are of paramount importance,along with many other factors...one being open to changing one's attitude,on occassion.Been there.Done that!

I have always been a big believer of "updating/modifying" something I think works well in my set-up,and I have a highly modded system.For my tastes(without going too overboard with ego)it is ultra high res(in the best way),and of very low coloration(something that almost everything "IS"!!I am truly happy,regardless of industry hype,because I trust my ears,and have friends who remind me of this,alot!!

Living here in the North East,I've been lucky to hear alot of great set-ups,and it is the "hobbyist system" that influences my approach,as opposed to live music!

Why?...because we are not about to "do" live music for a long time(of course it MUST be heard often),but when one hears another person's set-up "doing" something better than our own,it "instsntly" stands out.Then we(I) say.."how can I get that too".

Just my own approach.

OK,and please remember I KNOW you are an "audio maven"!

At least this is what Huntley told me yesterday...I am having him update my SP-15 pre/phonostage for the second time(the combined costs have been nothing approaching inexpensive,but worth every cent).It is a shockingly good device,but the new V-Teflon caps,and new P/S should make it even superior to the first "Ref Mod",done by Steve.

I was asking him about PW's and your name came up,because he felt your pre was fabulous(with the PW's),and he mentioned you to be a knowledgeable hobbyist...but...we both raised an eyebrow regarding your comment about not hearing a "worthy" enough difference when playing around with VTA....Whew!!

Steve was totally complimentary towards you,and your system,so we left it at that.....but I have to tell you if you are willing to go to the "voicing lengths" with tubes/cabling etc(and rightfully so),your enthusiasm about VTA leaves me "definitely" feeling ...

"There is something wrong in "Resolution-ville"!!

I used to own four different Koetsus,as well as the Zeta,but did not have the analog experience at the time(though it sounded good)to make a meaningful comment.

The 2.2 I know like the back of my hand!!Actually better!!..

It is "unbelievably" sensitive to fluid in the bearing!This is actually a good thing,IMO,because if you play around with it you will be in for a surprise,assuming there are no "resolution issue" in the overall system.

The amount I,and my friend had(we both moved the the Phantom,but don't believe the zealots,because the 2.2 "IS" a fabulous "cartridge carrier")was at the about 1/3 "way up" from the "bottom" of the bearing "square"!This is probably cartridge dependant,but I'd be willing to bet,not as big a difference with the majority of choices.Just a hunch.
The arm is "so" sensitive to fluid,that as much as "one" pinhead difference can be(should be audible....and I'm NOT nuts) "clearly" heard,if the system is of a high resolution.Believe me(or not) I spent alot of "worthy in the long run" time on this,and know "that" arm.I LOVE it!!

I would suggest,if you buy my schtick,that you start with a fluid of about 1/4 way up the bottome squared off part of the bearing,and move up in "rediculously small" fluid addition increments.Sorry,but it works!Don't sell your arm/cartridge/attitudes short!

The more fluid,the more damped down the sound(lower resolution).The less fluid,the higher resolution,openess and bass,but at the expense of brightness,so be very careful.It might not hurt to have a good second set of ears here.

If the system is as good as Huntley thinks,you may be in for a shock,because the VTA "thing" is HUGE(yeah....in very small movements of "that" dredded vta dial),once the best tubes,and cabling are in place.Not to mention a fabulus electronics array,that you appear to own!

So,if I start to read your posts about "better phonocabling" and the finest PW's,I'm gonna be "real suspicious" if you wind up thinking VTA is not worthy of the same approach -:)

"Those VTA Fanatics" are absolutely on to something,because it is clearly audible in a good set-up!

Meant with the best intentions.

Regards