system synergy


So, the basic question is: how important is synergy between amps and preamps? In particular, how much benefit can be expected from mating amps with preamps that are in the same series? One would think that a good signal from a preamp is a good signal from a preamp, but I imagine impedance and maybe bandwidth matching might be very important. I'm not gear-head enough to say.

There is likely no general answer to this, but I do have a specific case in mind.

I have an Accuphase P-300 and an CJ Motif CR8 Pre (solid state). Both of course excellent vintage (and vintage-ish) units. But the Accuphase was designed with the C-200 preamp in mind, as it were, and the CJ Motif with the CJ Motif power amps in mind.

So, what would I likely find if I switched the Motif for a (sound) C-200 (features aside)? And likewise, what woud I find if I switched the P-300 out for a Motif Power amp (assuming proper matching with loudspeakers)?

Any experienced answers, or even educated speculations appreciated.

Thanks.

rnm4
I think that to use the term "synergy" properly, it should be distinguished from issues of "compatibility." Compatibility involves factors which are generally much less subtle than the ones to which I would apply "synergy," and can generally be assessed via specifications (assuming meaningful specs are available).

So a preamp with high output impedance, working into a power amp with unusually low input impedance, would represent an incompatibility. So would a situation where both components have extremely high gain or sensitivity, or where both have extremely low gain or sensitivity (i.e., the volume control would wind up being used only at the very bottom or very top of its range).

System synergy, on the other hand, involves more subtle sonic effects, which generally cannot be determined from specifications, and which often (but certainly not always) cannot be explained technically. For instance, a system may have a tendency to glare or be harsh in the treble, or to handle sharp transients sloppily. That may, just to cite a hypothetical example, result from using a preamp and a source component with very wide bandwidth and an extended top end, that put a lot of high frequency energy into a power amp that can't handle it cleanly, perhaps because it uses lots of negative feedback resulting in transient intermodulation distortion.

There are innumerable other comparable kinds of sonic mismatches that can be envisioned technically, and a lot more that can be sensed sonically but aren't readily explainable technically. As was said above, using components from the same manufacturer can make it easier to avoid those kinds of bad combinations. But mixing and matching, based on listening evaluations, reading reviews, and following the experiences of others, I think can often result in better sound due to the wider range of choices.

Regards,
-- Al
Well said Al! In my experience, the cabling that you use is probably going to be a huge factor in creating a synergistic system. The best components can sound lousy with the wrong cable. This is where science may not apply and you will have to trust your ears.
RNM4
I am very sorry. I mean that sincerely. The post is a terrible burden to ask anyone to read and to try to undertand. I had a strong desire as it turned out a selfish one to endorse the importance of synergy.
I suffer from a chronic illness which has an occassional bad flare. My belief that if my will to overcome it, has no effect and does not alter the result. The illness has a particularly bad impact on my nervous system.
I should not have tried to write. I was stubborn determined to overcome my momentary loss of motor control using only will.
To make matters worse I am dyslexic. I am deeply aware that amongst the most problematic loss of function is typing.
Every single word I wrote was a typo. I think you will not believe it took me about 4 hours of rewriting and correcting the words each one a struggle which led to foused determination which became an excersize so frustrating and focused that my syntax became incoherent. I was able to repair only small sections of sentences every time - each attemp was trying to fix a single word.
I will not engage in discussions. If I know it is a bad day and can hold it back.
This I hope is very clear. I regret making any person considerate enough to try and understand that nonesense. Which and upon rereading the whole post which I believed conveyed something meaningful I found an unintended exposure of my failing ability and only a shameful embarrassment.

I thank you for you forbearance and forgiveness. Sincerely.

P.S. I owned an Accuphase C-200 and wanted to buy the P-300 for years. I thought the sonics of the variuos CJ amps I auditioned many times over many years to be one of the warmer SS amps I had encountered. The final thought I hoped to express but did not was, that I would think that the warmth of each I beleive they have would be additive based only on a gut sense. The whole post boiled down to the truth is that because of their a real possibility synergy that results in a sound very much to your liking may exist and is imposssible to know in advance. The intuitive thinking on my part that the two pieces would not work well may not be true at all, istead they may be synergistic and be a great combination. BTW I regret selling my C-200.
I am exhausted the above took 3 hours to write and I cannot muster the will to correct it. Please understand I won't do it again if I can resist.
Mechans,

Gee I'm sorry for your trouble. It must be a terrible burden you are under. I had no idea. I'm sorry if my glib and terse reply offended. I wish you all good days.

I'm still not clear, though. Exactly which combination of preamp/amp do you suppose would be slow sounding? This last post makes it seems like you mean the all CJ combo, but I'm not sure.
I can only speculate.
The amp is a relatively easy load. However, given its specs it would need a pre with a very stable output & with an as low as possible output impedance. IC would probably be shielded (unfortunately) if you live in a noisy area.

I don;t know your CJ at all. The Accu is a nice product however, keep it.