solid state vs tubes

aTMAS,

Aren't 4 ohm loads more problematic for tube amps in general? Isn't that part of teh reason why you advocate 8 ohm or higher speakers for use with your tube amps?

I will gladly try the zeros if someone wants to loan me a pair. If I ever experiment with a SET amp down the road, the zeros might come in handy.

In my youth there was a definite difference in sound between tubes and solid state. Audio Research and Conrad Johnson vs. Krell and Mark Levenson. Today, the very best designs have closed the gap so that there isn't a solid state or tube sound. There are excellent examples of each. Today,Audio Research and Ayre sound more similar than different.

Just ask any (experienced) guitar player. ALL amps sound different, as well they should. I think the bottom line is that tube stereo amps sound better than ever but they're fussy, relatively expensive (relative to SS designs), and tubes start to kill themselves off pretty quick. I love the harmonic richness and appropriate tactile response tubes give to my various guitar amps (when biased correctly and using good tubes), but SS hifi amps (well designed ones) can, of course, sound amazingly musical and they seem to keep sounding that way much longer than tube amps with less upkeep. I prefer MOSFETs (warmer or something), and I am gonna try a class "d" hifi amp soon (modern pro audio is all about class "d"...those "phased array" speakers you heard at that concert with your girlfriend on your shoulders spilling beer on your head...likely class "d" powered).

Wolf,

I'm largely with you in regards to my view of tube and SS amps.

Class D is a godsend for getting the most cost effectively out of most recordings in particular modern ones which can tend to be more challenging due to loudness levels applied with modern speakers that tend to be less efficient and are often difficult to drive to the max properly.

I've found Class D is like one of the last missing pieces I needed for getting good sound all the time out of my system.

I think many who complain about the sound quality of modern digital recordings need to get with the times and give Class D a try perhaps. Or continue to just live in the past and complain about anything that is new or different.

I want the best of both worlds. Class D helps more people achieve that.

Aren't 4 ohm loads more problematic for tube amps in general? Isn't that part of teh [sic] reason why you advocate 8 ohm or higher speakers for use with your tube amps?

This is true. The fact of the matter is that **all** amplifier technologies sound better (better= smoother, greater detail, often more authority, and in tubes less lower-ordered distortions that contribute to the 'tube sound') when driving higher impedances. IME 8 ohms is OK (better than 4) but where the 'magic' happens is with 16 ohms.

So I usually put it this way: If *sound quality* is your goal, 16 ohms will sound better than 4 or 8 ohms, all other things being equal. If **sound pressure** is your goal, then 4 ohms (or possibly less) is preferred if you have a transistor amp that can handle the load.

The point is that in high end audio, we are more concerned about getting it to sound real rather than anything else. Quite often (as in Unsound's case per his last post), things might be sounding *good enough* so that one is satisfied, but that is rarely the same as saying that the sound is as good as it could be. Its whether one is interested in making that step in the interest of better sound. I say this because quite often a speaker design could be a 16 ohm design or 8, rather than 4, without seriously altering the design. It does not have to be more expensive. Its really up to the speaker manufacturers, but I think most of them don't want to raise the impedance because they fear loss of 'voltage sensitivity'.

Have you noticed that there is speaker efficiency, 1 watt/1 meter, and there is also sensitivity, 2.83 volts/1 meter? The fact of the matter is 16 ohm speakers might be less sensitive, but they will not be less efficient. If this seems hard to get your brain around, consider the idea that the sensitivity spec was created to cover for the fact that many speakers are not as efficient as they are made out to be.