12ax7 vs 5751

12AX7E EI ELITE NOS just received these tubes today. i bought these because they were made with the exact tooling that the telefunken 12ax7`s were made with. these have been the cheapest tubes purchased yet retailing at £39.00.

you have to hear the separation of instruments in the soundstage to believe it! absolutely stunning! all instruments are rich and smooth in tone. the highs are very smooth. the detail is second to none. the noise floor has been lowered significantly over all the other 12ax7 and also the jan philips 5751`s. absolutely silent back grounds! everything seems to have extra texture. i have to say the ge 5751`s are going to have to be pretty special to beat this! at this point in time i really can`t see these being bettered! but we`ll see. i`ve read that these ei elite tubes become microphonic after so many months of use. we`ll have to wait on that one. at this moment they`re very quiet and i pray they stay that way.

so far these tubes are of amazing sound quality. i know i`ve said that so far all the tubes i`ve listened to are more a matter of taste to the listener rather than one being better than the other. well i make an exception to that here!

the punch and depth of bass is shocking! it`s like taking one to the guts from mike tyson!!! even if these tubes lasted just a year i`ll be more than happy to buy another set. the sound is just incredible and i have to say they leave the others in the dust and the amazing thing about that is all the other tubes really don`t sound bad at all. in fact they all sound excellent in their own right but these are special!!!

i forgot to mention, if 3 dimentional soundstages are your thing then these are the tubes for you! extremely holographic! a huge wide and deep soundstage. the depth is incredible and real! this is something i just love and what i`m trying to achieve out of this system. bring on the black treasures kt88-z`s! also i`m sitting here at my computer typing this and listening to music. i`m very off axis to the soundstage and it`s rock solid and still centralised between the speakers. amazing stuff!

If clarity, 3d soundstaging, and dynamic punch is your thing, the ultimate tube for those qualities, to me, is the Telefunken ECC803S. But, it can be, in the wrong application, quite lean and analytical sounding (bass is very tight and fast, but not full sounding). It also has a reputation for having an extremely long usable life (something I am counting on).

Also, because of the expense, there are fakes floating around. Supposedly, the fakes are tubes with similar looking internal structures that have been given new markings on the glass. I have not heard of any fakes having the correct embossed in the glass Telefunken diamond on the bottom of the tube, so that might be the way to tell.

I have heard that some Tesla ECC803S tubes are also quite good, but, there are some newer Tesla ECC803S that are not that good and have a much shorter life than the Telefunken tubes (I have no personal experience with the Tesla tubes).

My phonostage came from the manufacturer with 1960's RCA 12AX7s that are also on the punchy and clear side of the spectrum (as opposed to warm and rich sounding). They were decent, but I prefer both the Telefunken 12AX7s and the ECC803S.

hiya larryi,

i`ve had a chance to have a proper listen to the ei elites. played my usual cd`s dave gilmour on an island, adele 21, steve hillage green and also had a listen to pink floyds remastered wish you were here. i got the tubes this morning so i had to listen at more conservative levels but this evening i was able to crank the volume up a little to more decent levels that i usually play at. all i can say is wow!!! i know i hark on about hearing more things that i`ve never heard before but this is startling! at the beginning of dave gilmours track "then i close my eyes", there`s sound effects that sounds like someone walking up to a car and opening and closing the car door then walking back. it`s a brilliant sound effect but with these tubes i also hear a group of people talking. i`ve never heard that on any other of the tube combinations i`ve had so far. and what i really like is there is a warmth and smoothness to the whole range of sounds as well as the extra clarity. the weight of everything is just right. this midband is just superb. there`s decent soundstage height too. dave gilmour is no longer 4ft tall!!! the bottom end is outrageous! bass goes lower than whale poo now! there`s a really gorgeous warmth to the bass too and there`s texture not only to bass notes but everything at every frequency. listening to steve hillages cd green has high frequencies like i`ve never heard before. this cd is amazing to check your high frequencies and it`s not a half bad recording considering it came out in 1978 i think. synthesiser notes just hang in their own space in the soundstage. this cd is so magical sounding. some of adeles tracks have such amazing bass drive. there`s a lot of piano work going on in her cd and the weight of each key is just perfect. these tubes appear to have brought extended highs and lows to the table with everything in between just right. i`ll go as far to say the soundstage is freaky! my brain computes that all the artists are there right in front of you in their own space but my eyes can`t see them. i`m also wondering if and how the sound might change as the tubes break in. i keep thinking that the sound just can`t get any better. that`s what i thought using the psvanes and then the jan philips 5751`s! and now using these ei elites it has completely changed the sound that comes out of my speakers. these tubes have been an upgrade! and a huge one! i still have those ge 5751wa`s on their way and they`re really supposed to be something quite special. also the black treasure kt88-z tubes are really supposed to be something that are currently on their way through the post to me.

i have to say too that not only is the amp a real cracker but the speakers i have are really something too! every change i`ve made, this combination lets that change be heard good or bad. mostly mindblowing in this case! the speakers are quad 12L2`s and they are real chameleons. they change sound with every change i make. amazing!

if i ever come across the telefunkens at a decent price i may well go for them. i think my tube rolling spending spree better come to an end before i have to sell the furniture to pay the bills! the journey to where i am soundwise on my system has been probably the most fun i`ve ever had! i so wish i`d discovered tube amplifiers years ago. i`ve been missing so much! and i still have a little tube rolling to do when the new ones get here too. i cannot imagine the sound getting any better! but as i say......i`ve said that one before! more than once!

Congrats, you found that special tube synergy with your system. So many folks never make it.