Beating the RVG Horse


I wanted to throw yet another question out there related to the Rudy Van Gelder re-masters.

If you read any of the previous threads on this topic you might recall that I'm not a huge fan of the sound quality, generally finding the recordings to sound thin and tinny.

Ordinarily I try to stay away from the tone controls on my pre-amp, or as Rotel calls it “tone contouring” (I guess it’s sort of an internal EQ with four pre-set levels plus neutral). I try to stick with the sound as originally recorded on the grounds of trying to get a sound as true to originally played as possible. I do confess that this position is born out of some sort of ‘don’t mess with mother nature’ philosophy rather than any consideration to whether or not it sounds any better. Neurotic or not, I generally equate these things to touching up the Mona Lisa because you don’t like the color of the dress.

On the other hand, I have recently started playing around with the tone control on my pre-amp and found that –particularly with some of these thin RVG recordings, they do help to fill out the sound, even if it is by artificially boosting the bass.

Anyone have any thoughts on this kind of fiddling?
grimace
OK, I just went downstairs and grabbed a bunch of RVG CDs and sampled each for about a minute in succession. Sound quality is, as suspected, all over the map. I think this must have mostly to do with the original recordings as opposed to the remasterings, the differences are too great, and not just of tonal balance. If I break them down into three groups from least distinguished sound to best (bearing in mind that this ranking is only a relative one among just this group of disks, and not in ultimate terms compared to all other disks), this is what I've got:

Group 1 (best overall):

Hank Mobley -- Soul Station
Wayne Shorter -- Juju

Of these, "Soul Station" is clearly the best sounding disk of the whole bunch (even though its top treble is probably a tad overprominent), but again I think this is mostly a testimony to the original recording.

Group 2 (middling):

Lee Morgan -- Tomcat
Lee Morgan -- Leeway
Hank Mobley -- Workout
Art Blakey -- Indestructible
Art Blakey -- Buhaina's Delight
Horace Silver -- Blowin' The Blues Away

Of these, "Tomcat" is the best, but again I think this is because of the original recording sound. A top end that's a little tizzy and bass that's a little light at the bottom keeps it out of the top catagory. Of all the titles listed in all catagories however, only the last two of this catagory, "Buhaina's Delight" and "Blowin' The Blues Away" have what I would call a bothersomely overcooked top end, and this I do suspect is attributable to the mastering. However, this tonal imbalance isn't enough in my mind to place them in the last group, where the original recorded sound is noticeably less natural.

Group 3 (distinctly less enjoyable sound):

Horace Silver -- Silver's Serenade
Lee Morgan -- The Sixth Sense
Joe Henderson -- In 'N Out

I think the fact that this group doesn't sound as good as the other two can't be taken as a generalization about the mastering, since they each sound quite a bit different from one another, with different kinds of flaws displayed (the recording dates range from '63 to '68). None of these has a particularly crispy treble, though none has a plush bass either.

Of all the titles listed, the only one I can specifically recall comparing the pre-RVG issue with the RVG issue is the Henderson disk, and the earlier issue conformed to the pattern I noted in my last post and was inferior overall. I don't think I've had the opportunity to compare any of the others to any alternate reissues, either CD or vinyl, or to vinyl originals.

Other than that, we need to remember that all these disks *are* Blue Notes, which usually means they're never going to sound like a really suave Columbia, Impulse! or RCA after all. FWIW comparing apples to oranges (not only are the formats and playback gear not the same, but as I say none of my titles overlap), I don't think any of these CDs sound as exceptional as the best handful of original vintage vinyl Blue Notes I own, even those from the 50's, but I'd love to hear a good original of "Soul Station".
The best sounding Blue Notes are from the end of the 1500 series around 1957. Try any of the following:

Coltrane - Blue Train
Lee Morgan - The Cooker
Cliff Jordan - Cliff Craft
Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin'
Lee Morgan - Candy
Lou Donaldson - Takes Off
Lou Donaldson - Blues Walk
Cannonball Adderly - Somethin' Else

Is anyone taking into account that most of the RVG remasters are reproducing ACOUSTIC BASS not electric? Most of the one's on my system sound fine and as far as fiddling with the knobs what you are doing is replicating the old loudness switch that was on so many stereo's back in the day. If I want golly gee wiz bass I just turn it up or purchase amps that have enough current to move the woofer speakers at low volumes.
03-01-07: Qdrone
Is anyone taking into account that most of the RVG remasters are reproducing ACOUSTIC BASS not electric?

I would assume that anyone into 1950s-60's jazz knows that these recordings feature acoustic bass. The criticisms of the remasters have nothing to do with that or with any desire to to try to make electric sounding bass out of these by "fiddling". It's about comparing the recent RGV remasters to previous CD releases and the original LPs. The sound of the remasters is noticably sterile compared with all previous releases.
Started another good thread here.

I'm not trying to boost the bass to the point that it is obtrusive or bloated. What I am trying to do is boost it enough to fill out the sound, which in turn reduces the tinnyness of some of these recording. And yes, although it is a pre-set eq in my pre-amp, it is simply a more advanced version of the old fashioned 'loudness' button.