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How to reproduce sound of piano


I currently own a decent rig, Mac MA 2275, AP Sparks, Marantz 8001, Rega Apollo, Benchmark DAC w/ Squeezebox Duet. I love the way it sounds with jazz, voice, orchestral works and also it's decent with chamber music.

But I find when I'm listening to piano solo performances it doesn't quite sound nearly good as the live instrument. This is too bad because I mainly listen to classical piano works. I want to build a new system from scratch dedicated to listen to solo piano works as well as piano conertos.
I don't care for "warmth", "timbre", "soundstage" or other loaded audiophile terms. Just want absolutely accurate piano reproduction as possible.

What qualities should I look for? Analog vs digital source. Solid state vs tube amp? I find my tube amp unable to keep up with technical masters as Pollini or Horowitz. But will going to SS take away from the performces of more romantic pianists like Kempf and Zimerman? As for speakers, I never heard of a speaker capable of reproducing the deep bass of a 9ft+ concert Steinway grand. Are electrostatics way to go? My budget is around $25K USD. Thanks for any feedback.
plaser
martykl
3,578 posts
 
Oops!

I just looked at the photo of Plaser's room. As per Emily Litella...never mind!

Marty

PS - For those interested, Synthology software makes a program called Ivory, which contains hypersampled "voices" of 3 pianos for use with a midi keyboard controller and audio system (digital piano). One of the pianos is the 96 key Bosendorfer.
sogood51
2,157 posts
 
Shadorne

I agree with you:

"You guys are on to something - how to make a grand piano sound real in a room that is not big enough for a grand piano. It seems we all missed the obvious...it just ain't possible. The room is a good 50% of what you hear..."

And my opinion:

A large slice of something good, is still very good...even if it leaves you wanting the whole pie.

30hz or so, while not the whole pie, would still be quite filling.

I know that in my room, listening to piano with one speaker system or the other (-3db@17hz) or (-3db@27hz)...there is not enough bass difference to even bother with.

The only difference between the two speaker systems is sound quality, one system being a large multi-cone type, and the other, a large planer. (I prefer dipole bass for music).

Dave
newbee
4,767 posts
 
I just had a thought - maybe the problem is not pant flapping bass, or even deep bass, maybe it is a simple as a suck out in the upper bass. A broad and deep enuf suck out in the 60 and/or 120 hz range for example would surely rob enuf tone to make a piano sound unreal. Wonder if, or if not why not, Phaser hasn't evaluated the performance of his speakers in room performance. Perhaps he has some issues that are remedial by speaker movement, listening chair movement (often a biggie), or which are NOT remedial by addition of a sub (deep nulls related to the rooms dimensions for example). A test disc and a SPL meter might be of move value than any sub at this point in time. :-)
detlof
1,899 posts
 
Greg,
Thanks for voicing your understanding of the true core or rather coeur of my efforts. Wished it could have been done more cheaply. But for that the technical resources, outward as well as inward ones were wanting.

Dave,
dipole bass with planars is actually a must, I agree. Another reason why Quads with Gradients sounded so good in combination and your planars were rightly famous for this. For this very reason I tried to keep the Grads when I changed to the Sound Labs but found they were bettered after all by the Soutiens plus Rel combination. The latter by the way is -6db@9hz in room. Helps to chase burglars away (and scare the shit out of you) but also to get the lowest registry of the grand piano in (almost) all its authority with (almost) perfect timing and pitch after much much fiddling, sweating and swearing. Since subbass systems are not only important for bass but for ambience cues ( the Rel is linear down to below 12 hz) which are more felt than heard, all that fiddling was certainly worthwhile.
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Whoops, I noticed a confusing typo in my last post. I meant "JL" subs, and not JBL! The sub my friend has is a JL Phathom f113. Great sub! Also, my own low-level readings are from a RS SPL meter and are not adjusted (it is quite inaccurate in those low readings) so are likely more conservative than my low estimate.

....carry on...
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