Are singers musicians?

So then, technically speaking Johnny Rotten is a musician?

Absolutely.

Imagine trying to substitute Sting, Bob Marley, Jerry Garcia, Jim Morrison...or many others on a version of "God Save The Queen"

It just wouldn't be the same.

gotta go with the dictionary here...my dogs can sing, but they can't play guitars or keyboards. those lessons were a waste of money.

We might get around the dilemma by admitting Yoko and Rotten do NOT make music, therefore, they are NOT musicians.

Vocal chords are instruments. Playing the vocal chords well takes as much skill, talent, and years of practice as any manmade instrument.

We have the same semantic problem with the words, artist, painter, photographer. Does that mean anyone who has drawn a stick figure, finger painted in kindergarten, or pushed a shutter release is an artist, or painter, or photographer?

Suggested definition: Musician = someone who makes music.
That'll help if you define "music". Good bloody luck.

How about: Music: what musicians make qua musician. Helpful. huh?

If you hate it and can't imagine why anyone would like it, is it still music? Well then who make you lord and king of taste?

If it's not an evaluative term, so that its being good or enjoyable is irrelevant, then it seems it will be a less interesting and important question. But then we'll still have to distinguish good from bad music.

How about, Music = organized sound produced at least in part for no other reason than to be listened to? Then every table top spoon drummer and idle whistler is a musician. Fine by me, but some of you are outraged.

I don't care nearly so much about word definitions as about the truth of evaluative judgments, but it seem like some of you do.

Like I said, good luck with all this. If I only understood the point.

If it sounds good, it is good. (Ellington, I presume).