Why does most new music suck?

"IOW, my observation is that it is (with several notable exceptions) popular music posters here are narrow, backward looking, and quite conservative in their musical taste and would likely reject rap in a heartbeat."

Anyone who would propose Audiogon members in any way is representative of the musical tastes of the world at large would definitely have some blinders on.

This is a "high end" sight after all. It's easy to quantify high end prices. Maybe even what high end audio sounds like.

But specify what music is "high end" or not? Please!

High brow maybe....

Remember that music started way before Bach and others in his day started to elevate it to appeal to the huge minority upper classes and more highly educated population segment that classical music tends to better reach and appeal to.

Its a tough argument to elevate the blues above classical music, or jazz, and vice versa. Same true of rap.

Again a lot has to do with individual experience regarding what music one relates to or not. Old guys sitting in a room listening to their fancy stereos is just one example. And they might be an endangered species....

Rok 2 id wrote:

I just want to make clear that a person does not have to an Audiophile, or be of a certain ethnicity or socio-enconomic class, to be OUTRAGED, at the sight and sound of some illiterate cretin shouting obscenities and vulgarities, over a plagiarized music track.

....Well, maybe you don't have to be an audiophile, or socio-economically privileged to be outraged by rap, but it certainly seems to help. ;-)

Marty

Well done Rok. But Marty, Do you think you may be over complicating things a bit? Definitions of art become irrelevant to those offended by it. Why would I grade something I consider degenerative? To consider as you suggest, that early blues in any way has a similarity to Warhol or Picasso. Completely different motives and intentions. I do agree with your assessment of Johnny B. Goode, but the Beatles were 'better'.

***Definitions of _______become irrelevant to those offended by it.***

Scary to think of what could be inserted as it would have grave implications. I know that wasn't your intention but when I reread it.......
And yes, the Beatles were 'better'.

Rok, when it comes to rap, I'm beyond outrage and now just despair for my fellow man, whatever his/her status. :-)

All the best,
Nonoise

Csontos,

The question of art that offends is an interesting one to me. Whether they were throwing eggs at the debut of Rite of Spring because the music was strident or because the choreography was suggestive is irrelevant to me. Either way, it was great art that offended its contemporary audience. I think there's a lesson about tolerance in there, and tho I doubt much rap deserves to be the beneficiary of that lesson, I'm still disinclined to sweeping dismissal.

And, I actually disagree about the connection between rock n roll on the one hand and contemporary painters on the other - tho Basquiat, Haring, et al are probably purer examples than Warhol. (Ironically, their imagery owes a huge debt to - you guessed it - rap and hip hop culture.) I was married into the NYC art scene at that time and the connection between pop art and classical art was definitely prominent. Even the "classical" music of Steve Reich, LaMont Young, Phillip Glass, Terry Riley, et al bumped up against rock n roll.

The idea that simple, abstract images (or music) could be very powerful is a pretty recent idea in the West. Classical art that celebrates craft and beauty has its place in my life. So does contemporary art that eschews those notions.

As to evaluating Chuck Berry vs The Beatles, it's another question that poses a problem about which measuring stick should be used. If you want craft with your art - take The Beatles. If the point of the art is that craft only dilutes the impact - then take Chuck Berry. (Depending on the day of the week, I might go either way.)

Personally, I will still listen to Chuck Berry, but I'll never cue up a Beatles song. OTOH, The Beatles are probably the biggest influence on my own (amateur) songwriting. For me, there's two sides to this coin and I appreciate both sides - each in its own way.

Marty