Rolled some 12ax7's recently...

Cruz123 - The Mullard reissues are garbage IME, and the Sovtek LPS are moderately better. I've found you get what you pay for when it comes to tubes. Finding used NOS tubes in good condition can save you some money, but still expect to pay quite a bit more than the inexpensive current tubes previously referenced.

Bicicyle_man, in fairness, I have seen "museum quality" TFK 803S's go for as much as $1400 a pair on eBay (before the financial meltdown!) They ARE rare, and if one is a collector (and has no intention of using them - which blows my mind ;-) I suppose . . . . . .

But if you were to do a little research as I did, purely out of curiosity (I wondered what a $1400 pair of 12AX7's must sound like?) you would probably discover as i did that the concensus was "nothing special"!

The only time I [almost] got badly burned buying NOS tubes (the seller took them back ;-) was when I paid a premium for some truly NEW NOS tubes and one was a complete dud. But nobody knew because no one had ever tried to use them! Oh yeah, the seller had tested and measured them, but not actually placed them in service in a component. From then on, I only buy ANOS (almost new old stock) tubes with at least a few hours on them. There's nothing like a 'track record' when it comes to tubes!

Bicycle Man,

The ebay price listing for the ECC803S is quite high, but, is there something else you object to about the listing? Are these fakes?

Whether or not a tube is the "best" is a matter of system synergy and taste. I found it a bit obnoxious for the poster to suggest there is any kind of audiophile consensus on the 803S, but, the price any decent tube of that type gets is a reflection of demand for that tube. Sure, collectors have driven up the price too, but, I bet quite a few are in actual use.

I do think the 803S is unique, in terms of its utter speed, impact of transients, and detail. I know it can sound lean and analytical in most setups, but, where it works well, I have not heard anything that can compare. It also has a reputation for having a very long life. The value of what this tube offers is in the eye of the beholder.

I am just trying to get some idea of whether you are raising objections to the tube itself, the crazy pricing, or the specifics of the particular ebay posting/poster.

Hi Larryi,
My objections were to (what I believe is) the crazy pricing. I even think ~$300 for a pair of 10m's is insane. I love the tubes dearly, but where does gouging end and fair value begin?

I am not used to the idea of rare tubes and the enormous prices they can command. I realize price will only go up as time progresses, and the tubes become more rare. Through my own experiences with 12ax7's, 6gh8's, and el34's, I do believe that the older tubes were better.

I think it is a seller's market, and am disappointed to see the free market capitalism envelope push so hard. But that's only my opinion, there are many valid arguments against my point of view! One of them is the very obvious supply and demand. Another is the arguable dearth of current production competition.

The thought that these were fakes did, of course, cross my mind. How would you return them if the midrange was grainy and top-end was shrill, then you discovered you could not rub off the markings with your finger tips? It seems to me to be too much of a risk to take at that price. I am in no way implying that they are fakes! I have no experience with the seller, and have nothing against him except the pricing of his tubes.

These may turn out to be fair market value, given the laws of the market. Of course, then I eat crow, as they say. But I have seen other markets where the price envelope is pushed to the extreme by a few, then that pushes the average to an artificially high level. That is what repulses me.

I have read the above comments. Thank you! All valid points.
Cheers.

After looking at record lists, and some thought, I think I can reconcile the seemingly absurd pricing of some NOS tubes. Analogizing it to record prices, some records are exquisite, rare, and no longer produced, and thus priced accordingly.

That doesn't mean I won't shiver when I see the prices. I just understand that they are not made anymore, and that they are masterpieces of their genre, hence command a pretty penny. Of course, I will avoid them because of higher priorities for my money.

Of course, deep down I still will feel disdain towards those driving market prices up. But that's my issue to deal with.

Best wishes...