Possible impedance matching issue with subwoofer?

Hi Neil,

I recognize and agree with everything in your last post, up until the last sentence:

My point is that the "input impedance" at the buffered L/R line inputs (and L/R speaker inputs) of most subs today is 'set' by the sub's designer to accept almost any preamp's L/R main output without doing "damage" to the music signal due to accidental impedance mismatch.

My point is that the input impedance of the sub, which is the input impedance of the buffer stage you are referring to, is what it is. And depending on its value, and on the output impedance of the preamp, and on the variation of that output impedance as a function of frequency, it can have significant effects (when driven from a preamp or other line-level source).

In the case of Grannyring's sub, it is 20K, which is not an atypical value. The effects on the INPUT SIGNAL to the sub of the interaction of that 20K input impedance with the output impedance of the preamp will be no different than the interaction that would occur if the preamp were driving a main power amp having a 20K input impedance.

While the subset of those effects that are relevant to mid and high frequencies will obviously not significantly affect the sound produced by the sub, the subset of those effects that are relevant to deep bass frequencies certainly will affect the sound produced by the sub. And if the preamp does not separately buffer the outputs to the sub and the main power amp, mid and high frequencies can be affected by the sub's input impedance (and also by the capacitance of the cable to the sub) as well.

What goes on inside the sub has no relevance to any of that.

I would agree with your last sentence, btw, if it were limited to the speaker-level inputs of a powered sub. In that situation the input impedance of the sub is so vastly higher than the output impedance of the power amp that the effects I have described would be completely inconsequential.

Best regards,
-- Al

Al, your erudite response notwithstanding, it's unlikely ANY manufacturer these days would leave it to the user to make sure his product performed optimally ;--) I don't think Mr. Grannyring should be concerned in the slightest.

As he already said,

The system sounds very good as is, just wondering if perhaps I am onto something I have missed with possible bass performance improvement.

and so my response is, don't go looking for problems where none exist ;--)
.

Thanks Nsgarch and Almarg for your comments and help.

Input impedance is stated to be 20K so the preamp sees 20K to the sub and whatever ?? to the amp, but with both in paralell if the amp was 20k as well then the overall input imp. would be only 10k and that could affect freq. response on both the sub and amp. Al is correct, and using the speaker level inputs will negate the paralelling of the signals and offer less problems. Especially if they are using a passive preamp. The only thing to watch out for with using speaker level inputs is if you have a fully differential amp and the sub ties the grounds together to form the mono signal to the woofer, but that is another issue since a good sub will use a floating ground of about 100 Ohms or so.

Koestner, thanks.

Grannyring, Koestner makes a very important point about using a fully balanced amp with a sub, and your Aesthetix Atlas is indeed fully balanced. The negative speaker-level input of the sub should be connected to a ground point on the amp, and NOT to either of the amp's negative output terminals (which put out signals, as opposed to being grounded). Connecting the negative speaker-level input of the sub to one of the amp's negative output terminals could short the signal on that terminal to ground, assuming the amp and the sub both have three-prong power plugs, and depending on their internal grounding configuration.

A suitable ground point will often (but not always) be a chassis screw. You can verify that by using your multimeter to check for continuity between a chassis screw and either the ground sleeve of an rca connector or pin 1 of an xlr connector (while nothing is connected to the amp).

Concerning the input impedance of the amp, according to the manual it is an extremely high 530K, and is therefore insignificant with respect to the issues we have been discussing.

Regards,
-- Al