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How much can be measured -- and how much cannot?

There has been a lot of discussion over the years on Audiogon regarding the measurement of components and other audio products. Some people claim everything is either measurable now or will one day become measurable with more sophisticated measuring equipment. But others say there are things in high end audio that will never me measurable and that measurements are really not that important.

Here is a typical example -- a quote taken from the Stereophile forum regarding their review of the Playback Designs MPS-5:

"JA 2/17/10 Review Measurements of Playback Designs MPS-5
Posted: April 13, 2011 - 8:42am

John Atkinson's 2/17/10 review measurements of the Playback Designs MPS-5 revealed less than stellar technical performance even though Michael Fremer really liked the player. I've included JA's closing measurement remarks below followed by the manufacturer's comments.

To my knowledge there was never any followup in Stereophile regarding the manufacturers reply the MPS-5 could not be adequately measured with traditional measurement techniques.

I believe Stereophile should respond to this reply in the interests of its own measurements credibility.

Len"

How important do you think measurements are? Are the ears really the only true arbiter?
sabai
almarg's avatar
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almarg
9,670 posts
 
03-19-12: Ahendler
Actually I have never found measurements to help me in any audio decision to by a certain product. Measurements are helpful in the design process but do not tell you anything how a component will sound.
They won't tell you that the component will sound good, but they will often enable you to predict that the component will sound bad in a particular application, as a result of the kinds of mismatches that have been cited.

Basically, they allow you to narrow the field of potential candidates for purchase, to minimize trial and error, and to reduce the likelihood of expensive mistakes.

Regards,
-- Al
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
"Audiophiles focus on what sounds good"
Of course we do if it does`nt sound good why bother?
I don`t know what your priorities are but I only want audio components that allow me to 'enjoy' the beauty and emotion of music. If you can`t connect to the music what are you listening for?
Regards,
sabai OP
2,027 posts
 
This is like Rashomon. It is amazing how many differing points of view there are on this subject. Each one seems to be a valid part of this complex puzzle. IMO. The question remains, which aspect is the predominating factor -- or is this a matter of co-important factors?
sabai OP
2,027 posts
 
Regarding the example in the introduction regarding John Atkinson's measurements of the Playback designs MPS-5, I would have been interested in hearing a discussion between the reviewer and John Atkinson as they listened to the PD together after the measurements were taken and after John Atkinson wrote about his observations.

Another recent example comes to mind -- John Atkinson's recent measurements of the AMR DP-777 opposite the reviewer's observations. John Atkinson expressed disappointment with the measurements of the AMR DP-777 where the reviewer praised the unit very highly.

Is it possible for the twain to meet? Would it not be interesting for John Atkinson to sit down and listen to some music with the reviewer when all is said and done to see if he finds the actually listening experience as irksome as his measurements? I think it would be interesting to hear their cross-talk.
ahendler
416 posts
 
To me the best speakers give me an emotional connection to the music. The final of the Sibelius 2nd will give me goose bumps on certain speakers. I know of no measurement that will tell me which speaker will do that for me. Remember early solid state and early digital cd players measured great but sounded terrible. The statement above that measurements alone will tell you if you will like a certain speaker is just nonsense
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