Actually, the Mapleshade brass heavy footers come in at $160/set of four. Here's an in-between compromise: *adjustable* solid brass footers from Parts Express for $71.45 for a set of four. Another A-goner has these and says the threads make these footers direct replacements for the stock Technics SL12x0 feet. These are on my short list. |
Jmoog08 -
I love a bargain, myself.
I think the idea with the footers is to drain internal vibrations into a very small foot print so there's not a lot of area to conduct vibrations back up into whatever the equipment is you are trying to isolate.
I do think the knobs might work. Seems to me (without actually seeing the knobs you are considering) you might still have a broad contact area, however. Check out Parts Express and look for Dayton Speaker Cone Spikes (or some variation on that). I used 4 of these (~$30 with shipping) and a 2 1/4" Cuisinart wood chopping block (HEAVY!) from Lowes to make a bargain plinth for my turntable. Actually think I hear a difference. Hey - either way, it's worth the experiment.
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Home Depot, they have all kinds of cool knobs and stuff like that. |
Holy crap! It looks like I misread the Parts Express entry; they charge less than $20 for a package of four cones with threads and protector disks, plus shipping as Ghosthouse said. |
Neat.Reminds me of folks using old electric pole isolators to lift cables off synthetic or synthetic bend carpets.You can find those a flea markets,antique shops,and Ebay and they (the isolators) work/look better and cheaper than many "pro" devices.The knobs would only worry me if they rang (material was resonant) or had loose parts.My argument with a lot of folks who buy nice looking Billy Bags or expensive synthetic racks and speaker stands is that nothing beats mass (add cones or points to isolate after you have established mass) and for me Sound Anchor with it's heavy iron can't be beat.But not only does Bob (no my cousin) Warzalla make SA heavy he knows where to put it say more mass at top of speaker stand for some low on stand for others and does lot's of design work for individual speakers.But cheap eats that get that mass in thier and don't cause WAF freak outs are great so ideas like this should tried and reported on.
Cheers
Chazz |
Ghosthouse, you are very close.
The brass cones 'couple' the speaker to the floor and thus act as a vibration 'sink', sort of like a heat sink. If carpet, or rubber feet, are between your speaker and floor, then the speaker will be isolated and the energy cannot be drained to the floor.
Its debatable, from vibrations perspective, if coupled or uncoupled is better. I think it depends on the speaker designer / design.
Three feet are most desirable. Four will 'over constrain' the speaker. Ever sat on a 3 leg stool that wobbles? Nope, didn't think so. A 4 legged stool however... wobble wobble wobble.
Brass is good. Great internal damping and nice and heavy. Spikes are only nessasary to pierce the carpet.
A big chunck of mass near the bottom is better too. it will lower the first mode frequency (good, perhaps out of the audio spectrum) and it will act like an vibration absorber because of internal damping.
Good to know that 7 years of mechanical engineering school is good for something.
Lucas |
Those parts express footers are absolutely worthless if the adjustability factor is important to you. The only way they will sound decent is if you loctite the tip to the body of the cone. If it ever backs off at all, the sound deteriorates noticeably. These just aren't stable when you unscrew the tip.
Oz |
Oz - I used the cones under a Technics table not a speaker. But I do agree with your point. I cranked my cone tips totally down before installing. I'll check for loosening though I suspect this to be highly unlikely. $ for Loctite + 4 Parts Express is still way less than Heavy Footer $. Is the Mapleshade stuff probably higher quality/better made - yes. But the flip side to the econommic equation in my mind is, will I hear the $ differential? Answer for me is, I won't be A/B-ing and given my modest system - probably not. I'm actually surprised I think I hear a difference with the budget cones and plinth now.
Lucas - no argument with 3 is more stable than 4. I went with 4 because the Parts Express threaded studs match perfectly the thread gauge of the stock footer for the Technics table. I was fortunate and needed only a minor shim under the wood block to get things level.
Would have done only 3 had there been some way to go there. The bottom of the Technics table has a somewhat "irregular topology". Using the 4 corners was easy.
The Totem Forests I own have - as you recommend - a 3 legged "claw" configuration (I don't use the balls though that geometry resembles the round surface of a small door knob!).
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I just installed a set of PartsExpress Dayton cones on my Technics SL12x0 turntable, replacing the stock feet. The cones sit on an Ikea butcher block cutting board, which sits on Vibrapods.
I was startled at how the cones dropped the noise floor. There's new space around each note, clearer starts and stops. I wasn't aware of the smear until the cones diminished it. It's something you almost feel more than hear. And what I feel is that my shoulders have dropped and relaxed more when I put on music.
The most important thing is it's noticeably improved my enjoyment of the music. I was enjoying it quite a lot before, but I'm enjoying it even more now. I guess those cones do a nice job of collecting the vibrations bouncing around in the rubber base and draining them to the cutting board. (Gee, should I use an over-the-sink cutting board with built-in strainer so it drains faster? :-) )
The Technics DD turntables are capable of great quiet along with the speed stability. It all comes down to vibration extraction from the base and isolation from the rack and room. There are two big KAB mods to further improve this that I haven't implemented yet: the outboard power supply and the fluid damper for the tonearm. Music is coming out of such a nice, dark background now that I suspect when I add these, the true quietness level will equal or exceed some much pricier turntables.
PS. Right now I am using the threaded points to help level the turntable and I'm still getting appreciable results. I suspect that if I level the rack shelf itself and use Loctite to tighten and crank down the cones, the vibration transfer will be even better. |
Johnny - glad to hear PartsExpress cones worked for you. Here's to hi-value, budget options. Using a 2.25" Cuisnart chopping block that I bought at Lowes, myself. I really believe Mapleshade is onto something re vibration draining.
Vinyl playback is so good now, its amazing - even on non-audiophile, reissued LPs! - and I have not yet added fluid to the damper trough. An experiment to come, I suppose.
I have to admit I was always a little skeptical about the whole vinyl better than CD thing. This has certainly opened my eyes to vinyl's potential. Though I'm still not sure it's an absolute advantage. In my case it certainly reflects at least in part the ~$2000 invested in TT, Cart, phono-pre amp & inconnects vs the ~$500 invested in CDP + ICs.
The downside to this $ disparity is that it led me to spend more $ buying a DAC and tube buffer to try and get CD playback to be as rewarding as vinyl. The good news is, CDs are sounding way better now - though still not equal to vinyl. But now I also have the itch to upgrade the ICs in the CDP chain to the same level as the TT IC. (I hope this stops at some point!)
Apologies to this thread's originator for "hijacking" but hopefully some of this will be helpful to them as well. |
Ghosthouse, what cartridge and headshell are you using? |
Apologies to this thread's originator for "hijacking" but hopefully some of this will be helpful to them as well.
Well, since the Dayton brass cones from PartsExpress are cheaper than doorknobs, I think you did everyone a favor. |
Hello JB53 -
Guess I haven't priced doorknobs lately!
When I ordered the TT, I got Kevin's KAB Modified Stanton "Groovemaster" MM cartridge. It's a DJ cart but tricked out with nuded canitlever and stereohedron tip (no longer in production and Psychicanimal scarfed up the last few that Kevin had. It has an integrated mount so it doesn't use a head shell.
I've followed many of your posts and if I recall you are running a Denon (103?) with Sumiko headshell that you seem very happy with. When I first started listening to the Stanton - it was kind of darker sounding (I was coming from a Sumiko BluePoint Special (high output MC) and an old Thorens belt drive table. Maybe I've gotten acclimated or something. Or maybe the Stanton is finally broken in - but it sounds great now. I don't feel like I'm missing any high frequency stuff. Oh, I did upgrade from an NAD PP-1 phono pre to a used Lehmann Black Cube along the way since buying the Technics table. It is hard to isolate how these individual changes affected the overall sound. I haven't exactly been following scientific method while upgrading my system. |
09-05-07: Ghosthouse
Hello JB53 -
...I've followed many of your posts and if I recall you are running a Denon (103?) with Sumiko headshell that you seem very happy with
You're close. I'm using a Denon, but it's the high output DL160 mounted on the Sumiko HS, tracking at 1.6g. And I guess I have you to thank on the Dayton speaker cones tip. That $20 certainly improved the sound quality and musical enjoyment a couple of notches. |
You are very welcome and glad to have contributed somemthing to someone on Audiogon. This has been a very helpful site to me.
re the vibration "evacuation" concept in practice - it's amazin', ain't it!
Hope we all continue to be able to enjoy the music. |
Did any of you using this tweak have a problem with the fitting pulling out of the base of the TT? I was very excited when I read some of the posts on this, but tonight I pulled the fitting out of the TT. The two rear fittings that the studs screw into are loose and seem to pull out before the cone can get flush. Any thoughts? Should I get some shorter studs? |
I read someone's post here who dislodged the threaded sleeves from an SL1200 base while screwing in the M6-threaded Mapleshade Heavyfeet. Having read his post, I screwed the Dayton cones in slowly and carefully, and didn't encounter the problem. The vulnerability is that the threaded sleeves are only anchored in the rubber bottom layer. |
Hi Gonzo1- No, I did not encounter that problem. The Dayton cone studs were (by memory) shorter than the threaded legs of my stock TT footers. Compare lengths in your case. Are you using a Technics table? Make sure the studs that come with the cones are screwed into the cones as far as possible. My recollection is one one end of the stud is "slotted" for a screwdriver (might be wrong about that). If for some reason your studs are too long - shorter is the fix. People at Parts Express told me the cone stud thread was an "M6 coarse". Should be possible to reseat those fittings and use some kind of glue or perhaps silicone to hold them in place. Hope you get things working. |
Yes, Mine are definitely longer. I'll probably go get some shorter stud threads. Makes me kind of irritated though that the fittings come out so easily.
And yes, I have a KAB 1210 M5G. Fluid Damper, Strobe Disable, Cardas Tonearm Upgrade and RCA connectors. I've just ordered the Ortofon Pro S40 from Kevin as well and hope that changes some things. |
