Cable manufacturers?
audiolabyrinth, you obviously work for Tara labs, and there's no proof that they have eight nines pure copper cuz I phoned them and ask them for proof that it was 8 ,9's and they told me they don't have any proof, the purest copper is 6 9's OCC single Crystal and second of all they're not the only company that has rectangular single crystal wire, neotech the Amazon and the Sahara are OCC single Crystal silver and OCC single Crystal copper rectangular wire and they've been available since 2010. You would think if the company is spewing some facts that they would have proof of that, anyone can say anything doesn't mean it's true without any independent testing to back it up which they don't have. let's see your answer to that one because I talk to them and that's what they told me so you can't get around that one buddy. |
hey guys got some interesting info to pass along to you, I phoned Tara labs and asked them to give me proof that their cable is 8 9's single Crystal copper well guess what? they couldn't provide me any proof, you would think that if they're going to make a statement like that that they would have independent lab testing showing it. |
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audio labyrinth, you don't do your research very well, you're pretty stupid, just so you know monocrystal is one level below OCC single Crystal do your research read the Clarus cable white paper, so unfortunately the Tara Labs is nowhere near as good as anything OCC single Crystal, sorry monocrystal has 40 Crystal barriers per foot so it's inferior to OCC single Crystal which has no Crystal barriers in 700 ft. |
Zavoto, A few member's were talking about occ cooper like it's the purest cooper, year's ago, Tara Lab's use to buy and use occ cooper, now they manufacture their own conductor's to a higher grade cooper, I have had this conversation with Devon Scott the vise president of Tara Lab's a few year's back🍺🎼🍺cheers |
Audiolabyrinth. Not sure about the super annealing thing with cables. Sounds a little like cable snake oil to me. But your talk of rectangular solid core vs. round solid core is nothing new. Neither is the discussion of "skin effect." Most of us 'philes knew of these things back 20+ years ago. Same goes for mono crystal. |
This is a silly thread, occ cooper IS obsolete!, I'm surprised at so many that don't know really, anything! The best cooper is made in u.s.a.!, mmmn, I suppose you want proof., CONDUCTOR TECHNOLOGY AND DESIGN TARA Labs high-end audio cables are world renowned for technology and design. Beginning with our proprietary SAOF-8N conductors - Super-annealed, oxygen-free, mono-crystal, frequency-tuned, 99.999999% pure copper conductor. *Below is a breakdown of the process. 99.999999% Copper conductor: This translates to an audio cable conductor that is 99.999999% pure, for incredible musicality, detail & performance. Super Annealing: is a process that softens and increases the conductivity of the copper conductor. TARA Labs take this process several steps further by annealing the copper conductor beyond the ASTM standard. That’s the: American Society of Testing and Materials. After annealing, the RSC conductors are polished in-line, and will become finished SA-OF8N® Rectangular Solid Core conductors ready for insulation using advanced polymers, air or liquid-film technology. Oxygen-free: Removal of all oxygen molecules for better signal transfer and less distortion. Mono-Crystal: TARA Labs uses a proprietary process to create a single mono-crystal conductor that translates into one long continuous crystal. This virtually eliminates all distortion caused by the junctions between crystals in copper conductors. Those junctions acting like miniature diodes, will alter the flow of high-frequency AC, causing the audible distortion. Mono crystal eliminates this effect. Frequency Tuned: This is accomplished once the copper is extruded into a rectangular shape with exact geometrical measurements. This creates a conductor that is superior in high-frequency extension and detail. Rectangular Solid Core conductors (RSC): Starting with Oxygen Free Eight Nines Copper (99.999999%), the copper rods are extruded into long, unbroken, mono-crystal copper rectangular conductors. The unique rectangular shape is geometrically formed to having specific ‘frequency-tuned’ proportions. RSC offers a shape that has a unique advantage over round conductors. RSC has the necessary mass for solid bass, yet are thin enough for a coherent reproduction of mid-range and high frequencies. The RSC is not subject to the same high frequency losses that hamper traditional round conductors. To further understand the principle behind RSC technology, it is necessary to understand a phenomenon known as “skin effect” This principle states that in a round conductor, higher frequencies will tend to travel towards the outside, or “skin” of the conductor, while lower frequencies will travel closer to the center of the conductor. The larger the diameter of a round conductor, the worse the effect will be, resulting in a significant roll-off of high frequencies in large gauge conductors. Because of its rectangular cross section, an RSC conductor essentially has no center like a round conductor. Therefore it does not suffer the same high frequency losses. It is the only conductor that is able to combine high current-carrying capability with extreme frequency linearity across the musical spectrum. (RSC) Why Rectangular? Our proprietary RSC (Rectangular Solid Core) conductors, offers a unique advantage over round conductors. They have the necessary mass for solid bass, yet are thin enough for a coherent reproduction of mid- range and high frequencies. The frequency-tuned RSC is not subject to the same high frequency losses that hamper traditional round conductors. To further understand the principle behind RSC technology, it is necessary to understand a phenomenon known as “skin effect” This principle states that in a round conductor, higher frequencies will tend to travel towards the outside (or skin) of the conductor, while lower frequencies will travel closer to the center of the conductor. The larger the diameter of a round conductor, the worse the effect will be, resulting in a significant roll-off of high frequencies in large gauge conductors. Because of its rectangular cross section, an RSC conductor essentially has no center like a round conductor. Therefore it does not suffer the same high frequency losses. The final results are limitless high-end frequency extension, exceptional detail, frequency linearity of midrange & bass, low-noise floor, holographic soundstage with superb life-like musicality. Making Sense of….Gen 3 Conductors TARA Labs, Inc. has just announced the introduction of its Generation 3 Rectangular Solid Core® conductor, to be used exclusively in its state-of-the-art interconnect cables. The Gen 3 conductor has an increased bandwidth and high-frequency extension that makes it unrivalled in important test measurements and listening tests. The new Gen 3 conductor has the same current-carrying capability of a 28 gauge conductor but has the high frequency linearity of a 40 gauge conductor. TARA Labs' Matthew Bond explains why this is possible: “In a conductor with a rectangular profile, there is a huge reduction of ‘flux-linkage’ or ‘coupling’ of electromagnetic lines of force. These lines of force are created as the signal (music) passes through any conductor.” Bond said further, “In a round conductor there is a large center that tends to roll-off or attenuate much more of the high frequency information … this does not happen in a Rectangular Solid Core® conductor”. The new Gen 3 Rectangular Solid Core® conductor is smaller than the current Gen 2 conductor used in most of TARA Labs’ audio cables. The Gen 2 conductor measures approximately 25 thousands of an inch wide and 12 thousands of an inch in height. The Gen 3 conductor is about 66% of the size of the Gen 2 conductor, and that it is Super-Annealed™ to increase its conductivity. Both the Gen 2 conductor and the smaller Gen 3 conductor are said to be Eight-Nines™ pure copper, which is 99.999999% pure. TARA Labs’ trademarks for this technology are 8N™ and SA-OF8N®. SA-OF8N means Super Annealed – Oxygen Free 8 Nines copper. The term ‘annealing’ refers to the method whereby a conductor can be made softer and more conductive. TARA Labs is widely known as the leader in cable technology and audio cable design. They are based in Oregon, and all cables are hand-made in the USA. Super Annealed - Oxygen Free Eight Nines Copper (SA-OF8N®) is the new standard in high-performance copper purity. Variances in copper purity will result in audible differences. It is generally accepted that a purer, more conductive material can be more accurate and revealing that a material that is less conductive. TARA Labs' proprietary annealing process, known as Super Annealing (SA), along with Oxygen-Free Eight Nines Copper (99.999999% pure) creates a unique, long, unbroken crystal structure called a "Monocrystal™" which has exquisitely smooth and detailed transfer of frequencies over a very wide bandwidth. Additionally, this new "Monocrystal" eliminates the high-frequency distortion caused by the junctions or breaks between crystals in typical copper conductors. Acting like diodes, those junctions between crystals in normal copper would alter the flow of high-frequency AC, causing audible distortion.Super Annealing™ The Super-Annealing process was developed by TARA Labs to improve the conductor’s ability to deliver a more neutral and transparent signal than ever before. Even the small differences in conductivity create audible differences in sound quality. Super-Annealing is a specialized metallurgical treatment that purifies and softens a conductor’s structure to lower it’s specific resistivity and dramatically increase the length and size of crystals in copper conductors. The Super-Annealing process is performed in an oxygen-free environment to create an ultra-pure conductor with long-grain copper crystals. Traditional copper conductors are composed of much smaller crystals. The multiple breaks or junctions between these smaller crystals cause increased noise due to the diode effect of these junctions. They alter the flow of electrical signals and cause distortion. For the past thirty years, TARA Labs is known throughout the world, for handcrafting the very best in high end audio cables. Using their patented and proprietary technologies and materials, TARA Labs has created many of the technologies that are currently being used by many of the worlds’ top cable manufacturers. In 1986 we were first to introduce “Air-Tube Dielectric Technology”In 1988, we were first to successfully use “Solid Core Conductors” instead of stranded.In 1990, again we were first to change the shape of a round conductor to “Non-Round” to reduce the effects of skin effect. And in 1998, we were the first and only to introduce the world to a “Vacuum” dielectric. TARA Labs. RSC® cables are the only cables in the world to use a solid, extruded conductor with a rectangular cross section. These conductors improve on the performance of regular round solid core conductors by having the current-carrying capability (power) of a large conductor, combined with the frequency linearity (musical accuracy) of a small conductor. TARA Labs operates and manufactures all of their cables in Southern Oregon, US |
Can someone summarize who sells the UP-OCC and PCOCC copper wire made by Furukawa, etc for DIY cable building? I have bought Furutech's Alpha OCC AC cable, only to deconstruct it into its three conductors for easier use at screw terminals. How is VH Audio's bulk wire in small gauge? We all want to "beat the system" when it comes to cable prices---thanks! |
Yes, the Chinese are pushing hard enough that the 'scientific advances for the gullible' that the us places in the public domain... are no longer enough to cover up their black ops works, which have gone on for over 7 decades. The article states that the Chinese are now ahead of the US. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Chinese are playing catch up and theft, at a minimum. The official publicly stated amounts of recent (past decade) money missing from pentagon coffers, which many presume have gone into black ops and technology....now sits at over 6 trillion US dollars. It's not a case of the Chinese moving ahead of the US, it's a case of asking what the two-tier US technology system is hiding from the public. |
It won't be long now. Data transmission is a given, taken for granted. Working our way up to solid matter is just a matter of time. It won't be pretty, but they will try. In the meantime, refinements will trickle down to our neck of the woods and we'll be wondering what all the hubbub was back in the day. All the best, Nonoise |
"Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor? I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper. I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon." Whoa! What? Hey, Did I just detect a subtle bashing of the Clever Little Clock and Brilliant Pebbles? They aren’t no. 1 on Agon for nothing, ya know. Geez, they’re looking for peer reviewed scientific papers again? Must be the Skeptic Society working overtime. This is a hobby, not a NASA mission to Mars. Hel-loo! You always want to learn new things. I’m sure! |
"Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor? I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper. I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon." No, of course not. But you knew that... |
I’m describing a conductive fluid, with the ’fluid’ distinction being one of a true fluid, which is with ’free molecules’ as the main component. Not that of a fluid carrier with large chunks of material. That would not be a fluid. If you want to know of a fluid that exhibits such mentioned behaviour, you can look at fluids that are off center in their pH, as that is one area where such happens. Battery acid, for one, or other similar fluids. Voltage differential enabling conductivity and whatnot. Ie, that one possible descriptor for neon gas is ’semiconductor’, or more correctly, ’diode’. but it may be possible to make a neon semiconductor, but is it worth the effort? How about mercury diodes? (mercury arc rectifiers) There are no white papers as the sciences of such are well established. But only in gross terms, not in the specifics of what goes on at the electron orbital level. That component is not well established. Some recent clues for the curious: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-electron-orbitals-key-concept-high-temperature.html (I've been taken to task and attacked, ridiculed, etc.. over the past few years for using the term 'electron orbital alignment', as being a key component of what is going on in the fluid, regarding it's behaviour. Now emergent science says such. Again. Not the first time. No, not by a long shot... the science emerges in a parallel path and merges into a defined set of parameters. But first comes the exploration and the sometimes sheer violence of the detractors.) https://phys.org/news/2017-06-propagating-density-fluctuations-superconducting-copper.html https://phys.org/news/2017-07-scientists-electrons-vibrating-atoms.html It is as the normal case in the human world, where we can engineer solutions using components we poorly understand. Ie, that we still don’t understand and are still learning new things about even -cement/concrete. https://phys.org/news/2017-07-ancient-concrete-romans.html The people doing the engineering will probably get to the area of understanding the given intricacies long before the theoretical searching and scientific labeling/descriptors. Ie, that the science is ’real’ long before it is put into the scientific record and engineering record. To not make entry into the lexicon being the only reality... as that behaviour is the ’future killing’ sin of dogma. The people doing the engineering and experimentation in this specific case/scenario -- it’s pretty well just me. And this is, sadly, a commercial endeavor. So I’m into the idea of hinting, but people have to do their own work. If I was into brutal and uncaring commercialism, I’d not even stray into the idea of any form of sharing or hints. The downside is, I’m many times taken to task by people who don’t really think this through, and/or don’t have the backdrop to look into it. the people who do understand, rarely, if ever, comment. They desire the hassle and stress less than I. Perhaps they are smarter than I in the sense of seeking the easier path. As for measurement anomalies, those are commonplace in the analysis of the conductive fluid in use in these cables - as done in the main laboratories of a major technical component manufacturer, and a major telecom. The behaviour of wire and insulation, under a given transient load, is well known. And that the ear responds almost solely to transients, is also well known. And many more details. One puts it all on the same table... and sorts through it... |
Mr. Teo, do you have a technical paper you could point me to about this whole atomic/molecular-level liquid conductor? I mean a real peer reviewed and published scientific paper. I have an advanced Engineering degree, I can handle it:) I always like to learn new things and I am hoping this is not like the infamous clever little clock or some brilliant pebbles that were peddled on Audiogon. |
