Just got my new Audioquest K 2 speaker cables from DH GATE yep I said it. I bought my previous Audioquest cables from my former employer [Audio Buys] Summer job pre wiring houses. Still great friends. Anyway paid their cost for a brand spanking new pair of "Bed Rock" cables I was so proud. So what I know are quote un quote real Audioquest cables just got blown away by a $380.00 total cost [shipped door to door in 6 days] pair of Audioquest k2's from DH Gate.
Tycobb, Everybody says stock jumpers (plates) are horrible. I use biwired (shotgun) cables but still need jumpers between tweeter and midrange in my 3 way speakers. I use Audioquest jumpers. They come silver or gold plated. http://www.amazon.com/SET-4-SILVER-BIWIRE-JUMPERS/dp/B0057FK8RS/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345420469&sr=8-2&keywords=audioquest+jumpers
New cables arrived of course they are the best on the planet cause I got em [hehe] All jokes aside, pay pal refunded my $ to me for the K2 knock off's, Yes part of the deal was that I destroy them, done. FYI, MIT has dis continued 3 of their lines EXP AVT and CVT oops Shotgun too I think. Cables are so confusing. Anyway great deals are out there for these now. I decided on the CVT Terminator 2. Wow! [quit laughing] bass extention is incredible and I guess you guru's call it cymbal decay? Never had a reference point w/ this before. To me alot more "full/rich" sound. Audioquest were real clean and bright almost harsh compaired to these. Been burning in since Fri. These just so far keep getting happier and happier of maybe that's me. I do have 1 question [here we go again] I ended up buying single wire version. My question is do aftermarket "jumpers" make a difference over "stock" jumpers that came w/ speakers? Thanx! Bruce
I agree with you - its definitely $ 380 well spent - the wire is well made, have good connectors and it appears to have the right geometry - in my system it sounds "lighter" than my Kimber 16TC which is custom made for me by the great folks a Kimber. For what its worth my "K2" are terminated in the "right" direction with the arrows on the internal leads pointing in the direction of the signal flow, and this really does not matter much, the way the wire is terminated determine the way of the directionality , the shield connected to ground at the amplifier end - however Im puzzled by this - it indicate that the wire is not intended for use with differential mono blocks like mine. Some folks my say that the way the internal conductors are spun - ie clock wise or counter clock wise for the negative vs the positive leads matters - I think not.
If you like the wires then that is all that maters, enjoy the music, sounds like you are :-)
"Part way through dinner the wife commented on how good the system sounded and I could see her getting distracted by the music as she got in the groove."
If you would allow me to "help" if needed. You should be able to remove 1 of the connections. Either end. My bet is they are the same as everyone else got. There are very small arrows on the individual wires black and red. As well as the words bass and treble.
All I can say, is that I cant tell if mine are real or fake from the packaging or the actual cables. There is nothing externally to give it away. I dont intend to cut into mine to check. All I can say is that if they are fake, someone is going through an awful lot of expense and trouble for little gain. Since I have seen K2 advertised for anthing from $380 to $3500 to $7000 to $14,000, what is the real price? and who is being dishonest? the $7000 seller? The $14000 seller or the $380 seller. How would I know if the $14000 cables came from the same place as the $380 cables? you can't tell from the package or product unless you do like PBN and cut it open. Who is going to do that on a $14000 cable. I wish Audioquest would speak up and tell us definitively what the differnce is, if any. I dont intend to buy any more,but I have satisfied my curiosity.
Have we just come full circle from my orginal post? We truly are a strange breed. As I count 3 items have been purchased as a result.
I did do a head to head w/ my "bed rocks" before trashing mine. The "ha" K2's were, hate to say it better all around. I might be an ass but I'm a honest ass. Mine are long gone [trashman came yesterday] MIT's are supposed to be here FRI. So I'll be posting experience w/ them as well. If you guys turn around and buy 3 sets of them as a result....................................good times.
Ok, so I got the speaker cables yesterday, hooked them up and was playing some classic vinyl recordings when my wife came home for dinner. I didnt mention the change in cables. We sat down to dinner, with the music playing. Part way through dinner the wife commented on how good the system sounded and I could see her getting distracted by the music as she got in the groove.
Still havent told her about the change, and I havent sat down critically to see if I can describe what I hear, but on first impression, it seems the music has opened up, cleaner between notes, less electronic, smoother in the treble.
Now, admittedly, my prior cables were nothing special, basically a diy set that nonetheless sounded good to me. These "K2" cables do sound better.
I have not taken them apart to see what is inside. the boxes and interior packaging look like audioquest. there is no UPC code on the box. the cables look well made with decent connectors. The 72v box hooks up to the cables and lights up green when you push the button. there is nothing I can see externally that would suggest these are anything other than "k2" cables. I did have a set of Sky interconnects that showed up today. I havent put them in the system yet. these also look like real thing.
I can say that shipping was free, and arrived in less than a week from Hong Kong. Much better than my Ultimate Cables which have still not arrived after 5 months from Canada. from my own experience, the only time I have been ripped off in all my audio purchases is by Ultimate Cables. I dont consider these K2 or Sky cables to be a rip off, regardless of what their insides may reveal.
Sounds like a reasonable story to me. Im sure chinese factories are not particular about who they sell to or what they sell. Looks like the real thing, so why would he know different except for the price. I should get my order in a couple of days, so I will have a better idea of what it is.
So last little tidbit on this subject - I got an email asking me to complete the order from DH Gate, logged on and found the option to IM with the seller directly. I confronted him about the issues already discussed in posts above. He claimed that he had no prior knowledge about the "Rockefeller 3" wire and to his knowledge this was "real" K2 wire So I asked him where he got the wire from he said he "got it from OEM factory they make cables for a lot of companies" - I asked what is the name of OEM factory he said "I cannot tell you that"
I actually think he was telling at least some of the truth - the real scam artist is higher up the chain.
Have FBI agent tap your phone and they'll be tracked. Most-likely they just mask with US area codes but initiate calls from there. I had an agent track one from philipines with NV mask.
Bad idea, these jokers don't play. Remember they have your shipping address. I recieved calls from MD and CA trying to convince me to drop my pal pal dispute. Also from DH Gate's main page too. They are all in it togther.
Technically you can get them for free from dhgate by cancelling payment once the item is shipped or received. That may cause substantial depletion of credit card accepting sellers there. After you do that you shouldn't really care what's comming after you...
So we have a pair of supposed k2 cables that were wired backwards from TyCobb and PBM has a set that have the right size conductors, but with Rockefeller 3 sheathing and silver coating on copper wire that sound pretty good in his system, but not as good as his reference. Quality of construction seems good, with good hardware and terminations and connectors.
I guess the question is, if we forget the name and the hype, are these cables worth the money compared to what else is on the market. Based on PBM's early review, they seem to be. But he purchased his from a different supplier than TyCobb, if that makes a difference.
O and for the person who actually ordered a pair also be prepaired to recieve all sorts of interesting e-mails. Don't know if it cause I got $ back out of em or it's just thier standard jive. Like I said they are real nasty. I blocked em.
What i said was AFTER i got the "k2's" I tried to order a pair of sky interconnects then the true nightmare began seller tried the order is being held in customs line and bogus tracking info. DHL and Pay pal advised me that i was being ripped off. So I opened a claim w/ pay pal they since [not because of me] have stopped duing transactions w/ dh gate. For this exact reason, thier crooks. My speaker cables were the bi wire version and yes the cables were wired backwards. The interconnects never existed guy just flat out tried to rip me off. Crooks user name is audiok on dh gate and seller of k2's is audiophile.
Tycobb, Sounds like more bs from you. Really, biwire interconnects? new one on me. And the interconnects were Rockefeller 3, a silver coated speaker cable? And how were they wired backwards? most interconnects have a hot and ground? Did your music come out backwards? oh yeah, in your OP they were great.
I'd like to know who the actual supplier was, instead of stating it was DH Gate. They dont sell stuff, they are like Ebay, and they dont release the money to the seller until you respond to an email that says you are satisfied, or if you dont respond to the email within a few days. So, Ty, tell us who the supplier was, not the auction site. and explain what a biwire interconnect is that you thought sounded so good.
Just got my new Audioquest K 2 speaker cables from DH GATE yep I said it. So what I know are quote un quote real Audioquest cables just got blown away by a $380.00 total cost [shipped door to door in 6 days] pair of Audioquest k2's from DH Gate. Tycobb 07-30-12
07-30-12: Tycobb Mark my words DH GATE will be on everyone's lips w/ in a year. They're gonna cut out the middle-man and all those 400% mark ups. Just for kicks anyone wanna buy a brand new pair of audioquest k2's orginal box all packing supplies included? list price 3000.00 I'll let em go for 50% off that price what a deal right? Or you could do what I did [on a whim] log onto dh gate and pay 380 and have em by mon or tues of next week. High end home audio is getting ready to change big time. Cheers, I'm gone Bruce FYI Rebos12367
08-11-12: Tycobb Okay here's the deal. Been dealing w/ Nigel @ Audioquest, My local brick and mortar AQ dealer, and Pay Pal. First off if you order from Dh gate you're supporting fakes. AQ is very nice but fed up w/ this subject. And Pay pal is going to refund my $. I ordered a pair of Sky interconnects and the nightmare began, seller on Dhgate flat out tried the Jedi mind trick on me. So got me to thinking, called AQ and got walked through dis assembling these. Mine were the bi wire 72 v dbs version. Yes mine are Rockfeller 3 [AQ never heard of version 3] also mine were wired backwards. So they are also defective. Long story short, according to pay pal if anyone sells these they are commiting a crime and to pass around is to continue to keep a fake in circulation. I had to provide a statement saying I have destroyed mine. Gotta admit 956.00 for a pair of rockfellers got my attention. However I jumped ship and bought a mega price pair of MIT's from Brick and Mortar shop. Should be here by next Fri. My k2's? in the trash. I can tell you those sellers on dh gate and dh gate are real real nasty when it comes time to own up. As you can see I'm not so tactful sometimes. Have a great day all. And if I can be of any assistance to any of you in this matter shoot me a line. I'm also formerly Rebos12367 here. Got fed up w/ new system and left. Still on the fence w/ buying here again, however I am thinking I need a new processor any ideas? Bruce
My, my my....what a difference two weeks can make huh? So the cables that "blew you away" two weeks ago turned out to be defective fakes? Maybe we should all wire our cables backwards?
I'm a believer in the effects of cables in a system, but this thread certainly shows how ones mind can play tricks on ones ears. Chalk up one for the objectivists.
Okay here's the deal. Been dealing w/ Nigel @ Audioquest, My local brick and mortar AQ dealer, and Pay Pal. First off if you order from Dh gate you're supporting fakes. AQ is very nice but fed up w/ this subject. And Pay pal is going to refund my $. I ordered a pair of Sky interconnects and the nightmare began, seller on Dhgate flat out tried the Jedi mind trick on me. So got me to thinking, called AQ and got walked through dis assembling these. Mine were the bi wire 72 v dbs version. Yes mine are Rockfeller 3 [AQ never heard of version 3] also mine were wired backwards. So they are also defective. Long story short, according to pay pal if anyone sells these they are commiting a crime and to pass around is to continue to keep a fake in circulation. I had to provide a statement saying I have destroyed mine. Gotta admit 956.00 for a pair of rockfellers got my attention. However I jumped ship and bought a mega price pair of MIT's from Brick and Mortar shop. Should be here by next Fri. My k2's? in the trash. I can tell you those sellers on dh gate and dh gate are real real nasty when it comes time to own up. As you can see I'm not so tactful sometimes. Have a great day all. And if I can be of any assistance to any of you in this matter shoot me a line. I'm also formerly Rebos12367 here. Got fed up w/ new system and left. Still on the fence w/ buying here again, however I am thinking I need a new processor any ideas? Bruce
pbn, I am ordering the biwire version just for my own satisfaction. Willing to take the $400 gamble. God knows Ive thrown away more than that over the years on sillier things. Might end up buying yours anyway later for my Home Theatre or den system. then I would have 10k cables on a 4k system. Ill let everyone know what I find.
Hi FI Store - but DH gate does no longer accept paypal, to me that would not matter anyway as they will be useless if you file a dispute for counterfeit merchandise, speaking form experience here.
If you just want to try them before you buy I can configure mine for Bi Wire and you can see if its the way you want to go - just send them back to me once you are done with them - I won't use them anyway and since its out in the open that they have been taken apart and may be fake its useless to try and pawn them of on anyone :-) not my bag anyway.
Of course, I am not sure that K2 is actually solid silver either. The description on Audioquest's website is a little vague, calling it perfect surface silver. Dont know if that means the cable has a perfect silver surface, or if the surface of the silver wire is perfect.
Still seems like a lot of work for little reward. I am going to order a pair and see what happens. they claim they have a full return policy and I will pay with paypal. PBN, do you know which particular supplier you got yours from?
Peter, why you compare it to Viper? Viper uses foam Polyethylene and should measure infinity. Carbon loaded Polyethylene should measure within 1Mohm. This is second clue in addition to silver plating that shouldn't be there.
That is another possibility but at this time i don't think so - theres to many things that are "right" with this wire. Per your suggestion i tried to measure conductance of the insulation with a Fluke 187 multimeter on the insulation with 1/2" spacing between leads and it measures infinite on both positive and negative. Tried the same on a pair of genuine Audioquest Viper interconnects I have with the same result infinite resistenace on all three leads. It can be that this "partially conductive" polyethylene would have to be measured for conductance with for an example a "megger" (instrument used for measuring ground faults in electrical installations, that measures at a much higher voltage - 1000V)
So I'm going to suggest something crazy - anyone having participated in this thread having a feedback of at least 50, no negatives, are welcome to try out these wires - I'll send them to you via fedex ground, If you accept this offer you agree to be responsible for shipping them back to me or to the next person wanting to try them out whom will be accepting the same responsibilities, you also agree that you will not take them apart more than you are capable of putting them back together again.
"could it be that this wire was a test run of wire that never made it to market, the "Rockefeller 3"
It could also be any cheap wire with Rockefeller printed on the outside. Original Rockefeller uses partially conductive Polyethylene insulation on negative wire. Easy enough to measure with ohmmeter. If it measures infinity then it cannot be Rockefeller. Also, AQ stated that they use silver plated copper for subwoofer wire only.
Yes indeed I scraped of some silver to expose copper, its also evident form looking in at the end of the conductors.
I don't think these wires are "counterfeits" in the sense as made a completely different place than legit Audioquest wire, everything just looks to "real" including the box they came in.
Theres another clue as to that its a "Rockefeller" wire when looking in straight at the wide side of the cable you see only 2 silver stripes barely any of the silver stripes on the sides, just like the picture on AQ's site of the Rockefeller. On their picture of the real K2 much more of the stripes on the sides are visible indicating that the k2 is physically larger than the Rockefeller .
Now for some pure speculation - could it be that this wire was a test run of wire that never made it to market, the "Rockefeller 3" The wire picked up by some "crafty" folks whom terminated them put them in boxes and marketed them as real "K2" because of all the similarities, ie color of jacket silver plated wire etc. Again this is pure speculation on my side.
The point is that if it realy looks like Rockefeller it will sound like one too. No matter how righteous you are, you can't and won't stop this market.
PBN said, "you get what you pay for," but I'd argue that's not really true here. If it is indeed Rockefeller, it's still a huge bargain at the price, right?
There's one other piece of the puzzle that hasn't been addressed. Someone needs to cut open some legitimate K2 to compare with the results of PBN's investigation.
PBN, I take it the cables you have are single wire. I was really looking for biwire. but I have another question. How did you determine that the wire is silver coated? did you scrape off some silver to expose copper?
this whole thread makes me question the economics of making counterfeit cables as opposed to grey market. In this case, if the K2 cable is counterfeit, the maker went to a lot of trouble and effort to copy the external and internal packaging, with molded plastic container, silkscreen the correct labeling on the cables and connectors, create the battery pod for the 72v dielectric charge, copy the exterior sheath, and use the same guage wires, with the only difference we might find is that the wires might be silver plated instead of solid silver. seems like a lot of work to sell something at 3% of the normal retail price.
I would suspect that these are more likely grey market or back door cables out of the same factory in China
On Audioquest website there is theory-education sub-section "Do No Harm". Audioquest explains that silver plated copper is used mostly at high frequency video or digital applications but they use it for subwoofer cables. It sounds like PSS is pure solid silver.
They are all put back together again - looks almost like new just the outer sleeve could not be pulled all the way back under the bezel about 1/2 " thats black taped up under the bezel but- still looks very presentable.
Don't know of any other folks using this technique, silver over copper, but I'm sure its an readily available commodity from wholesale suppliers. As you pointed out the AQ site is vague on if the K2 are solid silver leads or just have a "perfect" surface silver coating.
If you want I can shoot you some high-res pictures. The photos on my "systems" page does not allow for critical inspection. Shoot me an email form my website and I'll forward you the pictures.
I by no means claim to have authenticated the cable form China - Iv'e merely described, to the best of my ability, its construction, from there folks can make up their own mind to what they think about it.
...and after all nice business opportunity to all readers isn't it?
Gotta appreciate Placebo that makes some people very rich due to audiophiles who read Stereophile.
Gotta ask profet Mr Fremer what he would think about that LOL!
Gotta raise my both hands to appreciate Tycomb for posting and presenting learning resources for naive and rich 'goners.
And finally, don't know where Peter had ID'd authenticity, but it's really not the point. The point is that hopefully we all see wire prices will go down quite a-bit.
The wires are terminated as single wire, the bezels have "Amplifier end" and "Speaker end" Silkscreened on them.
Upon deconstructing the wires the internal wires all have marking on them indicating gauge, intended purpose and direction ie. "17 gauge - treble -> " in this case where they came terminated as a single wire cable all 4 red and black leads are twisted together out of the bezel, covered with a piece of cable flex, then terminated with a banana plug, red and black respectively.
The naked ground wire form both sides of the cable are twisted together then connected to the black terminal. In my setup I suspect that this is not an optimal cable to use as my power amps are fully differential which means that the negative node is not ground but carries signal, the cable seems to be constructed as to suggest that the negative lead is ground.
If you want to try them $ 380 would get them shipped to you :-)
PBN How did you determine which plugs went into which inputs on the speaker end of the biwire cables. Supposedly, if they are reversed, where the high frequency ends went into the woofer inputs, you would get a lighter bass and alternatively, if the bass ends went into the treble inputs you would experience a less articulate treble. Is there some sort of marking on the wire that tells you which is which?
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