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Happy Accident

I've always read that the distance between the speakers should (more or less) equal the distance from each speaker to the listening chair. 

Our system is in the living room and due to furniture location, I'm guessing the  former distance has always been about 10% less than the latter (math is not my strong point).  Experimenting with toe-in has resulted in either a strong center image with a narrower sound-stage or vice versa. I've assumed the only way to improve matters would be to move my listening chair forward or the speakers further apart, neither of which is possible.  

But, as my wife will tell you, audio brings out my OCD tendencies. A couple days ago, I was once again messing around and tried toeing-in the speakers so their focus converged about 18 inches behind my head. This meant that the distance between speakers was, as always, 9 feet and the new distance between drivers and their point of convergence was 12 feet. 

As a result, the sound-stage now extends significantly beyond the speakers on each side without the center image collapsing. Actually, it's harder to detect a "center image", as the "image" spreads right across the sound-stage. The sound-stage is also deeper and resolution and bass actually seem to have improved. The point of convergence is only inches in front of a large, Craftsman style book-case with the typical "lattice" design of glass and oak. The speakers flank a slate hearth. 

Lacking the sort of experience/knowledge that might explain why "breaking the rules" has paid off to such an extent, this scenario falls into the category of "happy accident". I can only guess that it must have something to do with the room. 

Perhaps wiser individuals could offer a more scientific explanation... 

 

 

stuartk
nonoise's avatar
nonoise
10,894 posts
 

I went through the same thing as you when I got my new speakers. Before I had them, I always had the speakers aiming somewhere around the vicinity of my ears, give or take a few inches, but nothing more than that.

My new speakers seemed to have a larger lateral dispersion than what I’m used to so I experimented with them pointing straight out with no toe in and was surprised to hear a decent center image. Not the best I’ve heard, but decent.

Trying all manner of toe in, I settled on them aimed at where the palms of my hands would be if fully extended to the sides. Now I have a wonderfully wide center image that appears to adjust as I move to the side to show what’s beside/behind the performer as if viewing/listening from an angle, off center of an actual performance. Most uncanny.

I know a lot of it is psychoacoustics working it’s magic on me but a lot of it has to do with the high quality of the gear reproducing all those cues that make it possible.

All the best,
Nonoise

russ69's avatar
russ69
3,520 posts
 

An equilateral loudspeaker positioning is just a good starting place. You should always try different positions and see what the effects are. No telling what is happening in your room without complex measurement and analysis but nothing wrong with using your ears as the final judge.

ghdprentice
7,114 posts
 

Congratulations! This is the way it is done… lots of experimentation.

 

The “rules” are always just starting positions. For my speakers the generality for toe in  is cross the beams 18” behind your head. In my room… no toe in and they disappear with a strong center image.

stuartk OP
2,930 posts
 

@nonoise ​​@russ69 ​​@ghdprentice 

Thanks for your supportive comments. 

It's very gratifying to discover that, despite the limitations constraining my room, there are still ways to improve SQ and thus enhance the listening experience.

And I find it especially gratifying when such improvements don't involve opening the wallet. 

 

 

roxy54's avatar
roxy54
8,017 posts
 

I never saw the equilateral triangle as a hard and fast rule, and in fact it has never worked out best that way for me. Every speaker has its preferred distance from the front and side walls, and its ideal toe-in based on dispersion pattern and room size.

Experimentation yields better results than formulas because of the many variables.

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