Has anyone heard Fink Team KIM speakers?

That's a very interesting design though I wouldn't call that a mini-monitor! Very insensitive though what amp was driving them? And did you like them?

@jond I liked them a lot. Ample air and space in the soundstage and excellent separation from the speakers. Atmospheric is how I would describe them. They were powered by an Aavik i580 class D integrated amp. Source was a Linn Klimax streamer. The whole package sounded superb and I'm wondering how much the room factored into it. It was untreated but had a brick wall on one side, opened up to a high loft on the other with a very high ceiling, maybe 20 ft., and a grand piano in between the speakers. The Kims sounded so good I'm surprised I haven't come across them in the press or forums. 

There have been some rave (press) reviews of the Kim. I am waiting to audition a pair, and recently auditioned a close competitor, the Marten Parker Duo.

Here are links to a couple of the Kim reviews:

https://www.tonepublications.com/review/review-the-finkteam-kim-speakers/

https://7review.com/fink-team-kim-review/

@whipsaw please post your thoughts after your audition. These reviews seem to confirm my impressions. I'm curious to see if you have a similar opinion of them. 

@diamonddupree

I'll be happy to do so. The salesman who helped me is very knowledgable, and a big fan of the Marten, but also had high praise for the Kims, and characterized them as being very seductive and great fun to listen to. He said that the Martens are a bit more neutral, but had nothing negative to say about whatever colorations he may have detected in the FTK.

@Diamondddupree,
I had a chance at a short listen to the KIM at the same location. This time they were on the short wall by the Kromas with no piano in between. I really enjoyed the sound. So much so that I am seriously considering taking on the line at my shop. Both the Kim and the Borg. It would be a big leap for me and I am trying to gauge interest level in Fink Team overall. I took on the Kii speaker to not very good results especially after they introduced the "studio" version and undercut the hifi dealers with "pro" pricing. The Fink Team seems to be focused on growing their US presence.

@whipsaw,
If you are located in the US South East I am looking at adding the Fink Team Kim and Borg to the floor of Wolfsong Audio. I would be happy to set up an audition.

Thanks @meadowman 

I am located in Europe.

In case anyone is interested, I have now owned a pair of KIM for several months, and am very happy with them. If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

@whipsaw -

How sensitive to room placement are the Kims? I can only position the front plane of my speakers about three feet from the front wall at most, do you feel this would present any bass overload issues? One of the reviews cited some "tubbiness" in the bass, this is a concern given my above placement constraints.

Also, I see that you are driving them with a solid state amp. Any experience with moderate power tube designs? And do you find the image to be of sufficient height given their shortish stature?

Thanks!

Hi @weebeesdad 

It just so happens that I can offer some insight into your situation. I recently moved into a newly refurbished old house, and while the room in which I listen is decent sized, I have no choice but to place the KIMS along the long wall. This, in turn, means that I can only comfortably place them almost exactly three feet (front plane) from the rear wall.

At first, I did experience some bass bloat, but through trial and error, and a fair number of tweaks, I was able to improve the situation significantly. I was not able to eliminate it entirely, but am now at the stage where I am not aware of any issues with well-recorded music.

Perhaps I didn't update my system profile, but I am using a Circle Labs A200 integrated, which does utilize two tubes in the preamp stage. It drives the KIMS well, though I have not tried other amps, so it would be impossible for me to compare.

If you are able to sit far enough away from the speakers (3m+), the image height is fine. They are designed to disperse the sound upwards (tilted), and create a good-sized image. If one has a tighter window, it can be mitigated by reducing the tilt angle.

One of the interesting aspects of working to mitigate the bass issue was that I became very aware of the distinctions, in terms of bass, in various recordings. It's not simply a matter of genre, but how the bass was recorded and mixed. Good recordings present no problems now, and that includes a high percentage of the CDs that I own.

I could understand if you are reluctant to go with them under the circumstances, but I will say that I have no regrets. The bass is tight and clean with good recordings, and the small percentage that still sound bloated I can easily live without.

If you have any interest in the various steps that I took to mitigate the problem, I'll be happy to describe them.

Cheers!

Thanks for your reply, @whipsaw.

I sit a little over 10 feet (3M) away from the speakers and the speakers again about 3 feet (front plane) from the front wall. The room is not small, 16.5 feet wide, 31 feet long with 11 foot ceilings, but is laid out in an open floor plan, the first third as the living room thus the furniture induced speaker placement limitation. As aesthetics are important for both my wife and I the use of traditional room treatments are not an option, for better or for worse. I would be interested to hear how you have mitigated the bass bloat issue in your own listening space.

Thanks again for your insights.

You’re welcome.

First, I have a low media sideboard between the speakers, and a large flat-screen TV on the wall. Neither are optimal, but with some movement of the sideboard away from the wall, there was a small improvement. For serious listening, I also have a fabric cover for the TV which improves the SQ by reducing reflections.

Secondly, I am not a cable skeptic, but only had one remotely high-end power cable in my system until fairly recently. It is a Shunyata Black mamba CX HC which I bought used some time ago, and use with the amp. The cables that I was using for my DAC and CD transport were a cut above basic, but nothing special. I was also using an Isotek Sirius power strip, with one of their lower-end cords to the wall.

As I was grappling with the bass issue, I spontaneously decided one day to switch the DAC and transport cords just for the hell of it, and lo and behold, the bass tightened up. I really was not expecting such a change, but because it happened, I decided then to upgrade, and bought a used Hijiri Nagomi power cord to use with my DAC. Further improvement noted.

I know that the skeptics will assume confirmation bias, etc., but this was my experience, and I do not consider it to have been subtle. I have no clue how changes in power cords might produce such a change, but they did. I then got a very good deal on an Ansuz Maniz8 X-TC "power distributor", and replaced the Isotek strip with it. I am confident that there was an overall improvement (likely a lowered noise floor, primarily), but can’t say for sure that the bass in particular was affected.

Then, there was the fine-tuning of the speaker placement. After many small changes, I ended up following the basic parameters suggested by Jim Smith in the video on this thread:

Jim Smith speaker placement

and found a noticeable improvement. Basically, instead of an equilateral triangle, Smith suggests that the distance between the speakers should be ~.83 the distance of the tweeters to the ears. So, a bit closer together, and it worked very nicely in my case. Again, I’m not referring only to the bass, but there was clearly improvement in the overall sound. I also fiddled with the toe-in, and ended up with a very good image based on the tweeters aiming roughly at my shoulders. I have noted that FinkTeam tends to toe the KIMs in at shows, as well.

Finally, I have found the integral stands of the KIM to be very well designed, and I don’t believe that there is any vibration between the cabinets and the top of the stands. The spikes are adjustable, which is good, but I found that it is very important, and particularly in terms of bass response, that they be well-tightened. That may seem obvious, but I did some belated, final tightening that caused an audible improvement.

The type of furnishings that you have are also likely to play a role. Sound absorbing fabrics and wood are likely to help mitigate the issue better than glass and other reflective surfaces. When my girlfriend’s (solid side-wall) oak desk was delivered, and placed only about 20" to the left of one of the KIMs, I was worried that it might emphasize the issue. But to the contrary, it actually seemed to help a bit.

Ultimately, a sealed speaker design would likely be best for the type of room limitations that we are discussing. But as happy as I was with the Harbeth that I was using previously, I prefer the KIMs, and am willing to sacrifice optimum playback of poorly recorded albums, given the superb sound and dynamics that they produce with well-recorded ones.

 

 

@whipsaw - You've obviously put a lot of effort into your equipment and room set up with great attention to detail. I'm sure it has paid off and that your system and the Kims sound fantastic. The Circle Labs amp seems to be getting a lot of positive press so no doubt that contributes to your system's success. 

I was unable to make it to CAF a few months ago where the Kims were being demoed, hopefully in 2023 they will once again be at one of the East Coast shows and I can have a listen.

Thanks again for sharing your experience with them. 

@weebeesdad 

A quick update. I belatedly tried a tweak that I obviously should have applied long ago – vibration control under the amp. I got a very good deal on four Stillpoints, which, after plenty of research, I chose from amongst the various brand options. Wowsers! Not only the bass, but they greatly enhanced the A200's overall performance, and, by extension, that of the speakers.

I won't go as far as to say that the issue that we have been discussing is fully resolved, but I am now much closer to hearing the full potential of the KIMs, and am very happy indeed.

What this underscores is that likely both the choice of amp, and, at least in some cases, vibration control, can have a major impact. I suppose that the use of tubes in the A200 is why it may be particularly sensitive to vibration.

 

More info on the KIM Speakers here 

These KIM Speakers could be your End-Game Speakers for Life

 https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/new-fink-team-kim-speakers-reviews.33610/

I bought the Kim speakers last summer. I’ve been through lots of gear, with some hits and misses, but damn, I love these speakers. I installed IsoAcoutic Gaia III footers and highly recommend them to any Kim owners. If anyone is researching, the FinkTeam website has compiled pretty much all the reviews in one place.

And yes, these are definitely not mini-monitors in any way, shape or form. Not that I have anything against mini-monitors, having owned and really enjoyed Raidho XT-1’s (now that is a true mini-monitor, and an exceptional one at that).

FinkTeam is not really known in the USA, but hopefully that will change.  Also Jay's Audio Lab on YT is considering purchasing the Kim as he is so impressed and if you follow him, his gear is at the bleeding edge in performance and cost.  This says a lot about the Kim, and it was driven by reasonably priced Creek amplification during his demo, a further feather in the cap.

 

Some say their top of the line $65K+ Fink Team WM4 Speakers..{Cost more in the USA} are by far there best sounding speakers ! Some liked these more than the top of the line Wilson Audio Speakers and other high-end speakers too ! Some say these WM4’s are the most accurate speakers with the lowest distortion ! Here’s a video on these WM4’s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWSPXukY11g

https://www.finkteam.com/products/wm-4/

Here’s the Fink Team WM-4’s with just a Marantz KI Ruby Integrated amp only ! 😲

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jVVQOJ-x44 

 

The KIM Speakers cost $12990 USA

The BORG Speakers cost $36.5K USA

The Fink Team WM-4 Speakers are all Sold Out but they working on the WM-5's right now and will be out later on.

I bought the Finkteam Kim loudspeaker a few weeks ago. These are the best speaker I have owned and like many audiophiles, I have owned far too many...some even twice. I will indulge with my opinions and it is indeed a pleasure for me to write the following (very happy!)…

They are a chunky monitor but have a full range sound. The design is also aesthetically pleasing. The oversized Mundorf Heil tweeter is quite special as at louder volumes, I am not hearing the distortion typically heard with ubiquitous soft dome tweeters. The speaker is also flexible with subtle high frequency adjustment and also a damping adjustment. This is a wise nod to great speakers of the past that has similar adjustments. Finally, the provenance is validated by the speaker having been designed by Karl-Heinz Fink.

Lots of information on their website or can call Matterhorn Audio if in the US (https://www.matterhornaudio.com). They are very nice people.

Great feedback on the KIM Speakers here ! 😲....The Boulder 866 Integrated Amp really makes these KIM Speakers Sing !..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAjUho52VBY

Update:  Wolfsong Audio has added the KIM to our line up.  If anyone is in the South East, please contact us to set up an audition. Up to and including an in home audition.

Heard these and their bigger brother over a year ago at the Tampa show. Nothing special. The Kim’s cost 2x than what they are worth compared to other like speakers. Their Borg models are $30k more than what they are worth. I love AMT drivers, I had them 45 years ago on my ESS speakers. But my reference level speaker line has models for $5k or even less that sound better than these finks.

For example, the Revel Salon 2 for $10k less than the borg’s, blow away the Borgs. The Revel Performa line (BE or not) actually blows away the borgs for 1/3 the price. I would also take either of the Sourcepoint speakers over either funk speakers, for $30k cheaper. 
What’s ridiculous is that the Borgs cost more than the ps audio fr30’s and the borg is nowhere close to being mentioned in the same breadth as the FR30’s.

Nowadays, manufacturers think they can create a ho hum speaker and think they can charge outrageous prices. 

Heard these and their bigger brother over a year ago at the Tampa show. Nothing special. The Kim’s cost 2x than what they are worth compared to other like speakers

A ludicrous assertion, and it's not the first time that you've made it.