OK, solved . Thankfully I have auditioned my own system in a nice, big room, and also trialed my RP10 in a friends system. I need to get my system out of my study!! The two systems used with my RP10 : triamped Accuphases, Accuphase pre amp, latest Perreaux phono stage , BMW801's, (the owners transrotor, Benz Ruby 3, Kuzma 12" to base-line)
Now , MY system :Naim Nait 5i-2 , Totem Dreamcatchers, RP10, Dynavector DV20X2. Perreaux phono stage 100 Ohm input 'Z'.
Putting the RP10 in my friends system: Every album is like listening to the musicians in the room. Pin point placement of instruments, as though everything was laid down in a single session. Amazing. Keep the transrotor and the Benz, thanks, I'm astonished at the RP10 and the Dynavector. When it wears out, I'll look a bit further up the market, but I LIKE Dynavector. A lot. Totem dream catchers are where I want to be. Pinpoint accuracy of tri amped 801's is missing, but boy, do I like what I have otherwise. |
Since Rega's are almost suspensionless (their rubber feet are pretty ineffectual), what they sit on greatly effects their sound. A good isolation shelf (a Symposium Acoustics Segue Iso, Townshend Audio Seismic Footers, or even a DIY inner tube under plywood, all assisted with RollerBlocks) will cure that. |
Regas like ligth tables to support them or try the Rega shelf. Heavyweight granite is sucking the life out of it. I learned this with my previous P9. |
I always thought Rega's philosophy for placing their turntables was on a light, rigid platform. That is also my experience having owned and sold Rega's through the years.
By placing on a solid, heavy piece of granite, you may be sucking the life out of the sound. Try a lighter platform like an IKEA Lack table top or similar, just a suggestion. |
Buconero 117,
There you go again comparing a 300.00 turntable to a 6000.00 TT. Are you a paid spokesman for the company? |
Take it off the granite and put it on the cardboard box it came in on a shaky little table . |
Having big issues with RP10
Detail superb, timbre good, but has collapsed soundstage into one flat thin dimensionless layer, no slam, no dynamic punch, compared to other TT through Totem Dreamcatchers NAIT5i 2, which was sensational but lacked, guess what? Timbre and detailed resolution, with the same cart, BTW.
RP10 sitting on 10Kg of granite slab set into Target equipment frame. Getting the impression it doesn't like high mass low compliance carts as I had to whack the playing weight up for the DV20X2L compared to the Jelco 750D in other TT.
Not thrilled, at all. |
A nice review: http://www.thresholdlovers.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=1977 |
Sbrownnw, I think I mis-led you when I said feet. My intentions are to try footers under the existing feet. The feet on the RP10 are threaded and although the guys at Sound Org state they are not designed for adjustment but they do have enough thread that I may try leveling and making a shim so that the feet are firm to the bottom of the plinth. Or just level via the platform I plan to make. |
I tried a sandbox under a somewhat similar unsprung table (Thorens td-850), and it deadened the sound. Among the table, footers, rack and floor, there are too many variables to predict how a particular "isolation" device will work. You just have to experiment. |
@Theo, what optional Rega feet are you talking about? I have a RP6 and love the table but one thing Rega needs to do is to have the RP6 (and others) be height adjustable. Will the optional Rega feet fit my RP6 and are they height adjustable?
Does anyone know non-Rega options that require no mods and are height adjustable?
TIA |
Your vision of the design is correct. Good luck and happy listening! |
Thanks I do some woodworking and already have a vision of the design. Basically a open top box with a platform sitting on the sand but not touching the sides of the box, right? Your top link is very similar to what I was thinking but I think I would try different isolation between the box and the cabinet if setting directly proved to not yeild much help.
Thank you
Theo |
Theo,
1 1/2 inches deep should be good enough although mine is 4 inches deep with 3 inches of sand. I reviewed the following websites before I constructed mine:
www.cognitivevent.com/sandbox.html
audiokarma.org (cheap, easy yet effective DIY sandbox turntable stand)
vinylengine.com (Sandbox-anybody built one?)
Total cost for mine was $22.00 with some change. It came out rough (I'm no expert in carpentry) but extremely effective. Very heavy at around 50 pounds. I could send you a picture if you don't mind sharing your email address with me.
Hope this information is helpful. |
Kiko65, how deep should the sand be? I have heard that this sis a great isolation base as well as lead shot. But is 1-2 inches enough? |
Sandbox Theo.
If you value pacing, quietness, and effortless tracking in your new table, you will be astounded by how much more quieter black background, taut, tuneful bass and overall eerie qualities you will be able to get with the addition of a sandbox!
Happy listening! |
Kiko65, I have mine on the way. I agree I don't plan to do anything else with the exception of experiment with platforms or bases to place under the table. I am very happy with the sound I have now but know from previous experience that counterweight will bring further performance improvements.
Thanks again for you help. |
Schubert,
I am glad we understand each other by respecting the individual approach to this hobby.
Theo,
I am glad I was able to help. Give my best regards to Frank. True gentleman that really knows his stuff. Personally, Groovetracer products have trully been a revelation in bringing out the best from entry level Rega turntables.
That said, I wouldn't change anything other than the counterweight on both the RP8 and 10. Their much improved subplatter, platter, double pulley, white belt, etc. are better than what Groovetracer has to offer.
The reason for tweaking my trusted RP3 was to bring it as close to the RP8 as possible because I fell in love with the sound of the RP8 and I couldn't afford to spend $3,000.00. So I started the slow proccess of acquiring the parts over a period of time.
Once finalized, a head to head comparison between my modified RP3/8 and a stock RP8 sold me out. Extremely similar in sound. If i had to descibe the main difference in one word I would say that mine sounded more "solid" while the stock sounded more "liquid". Subtle difference to my ears and extremely happy with the results.
Back to the original question posted:
other TT's in it's price range? Too many to mention but here are a few well reviewed examples:
Well Tempered Amadeus GTA or Versalex
Rega P9
VPI Classic 3
Basis Signature (various models)
Townsend Rock 7 with Origin Live arm
SOTA with Origin Live arm
Clearaudio Ovation
Michell Orbe SE with TecnoArm
Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace
Happy listening!
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Kiko65, Thank you for your response. I understand your wanting to have the counterweight as far forward as possible. I see the advantages of the reduced "projected mass" behind the pivot point and it gives me food for thought and encouragement to do the same. And I do appreciate your sharing the proximaty issues with the arm lifter. That explains why Frank encouraged me to buy the 150gram weight. But my main concern was the spring as mentioned on the EKOS the concensus seemed to be apply some tension but they are different designs.
You have been a big help and I plan to place an order soon. Last time I spoke with Frank he had some health issues and was behind in inventory, I will give him a call and see how he coming along.
Again Thank You
Theo |
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Here's one for the books. Last night I watched the superb "Midwives" series that is so popular on PBS.
It's noted for the all-out effort they make to have only items
from the 40-50"s on their set. In last episode that had a shot of a 50's phonograph playing that had a braced tonearm which looked a LOT like what Rega is using now!
The tonearm itself was wide and tapered with a hole at the end that went over the spindle. |
Schubert,
I am listening to music with great satisfaction. Tweaking the sound is part of the hobby.
Theo,
I completely relieved the tension on the arm's VTF spring. The completely relaxed spring does not "rattle" at all.
I went with the 130 gram counterweight because I wanted it as close to the pivot as possible (more stable and better sound). The only caveat is that I have to be careful when I use the arm lifter every time the cart reaches the end of the record becuse it ends up being extremely close to the outside weight of the conterweight.
Other than that, I couldn't be any happier.
Bobheinatz,
Haven't auditioned an RP10 but I extensively listened to an RP8 and, with good isolation and properly partnered, this TT can compete with the likes of VPI Classic, Well Tempered Amadeus, Clearaudio Performance, etc.
Happy listening! |
Kiko65, If I may, when you employed your Groovetracer Counterweight, did you completely relieve the tension on the arm's VTF spring? I discussed this with the gentleman at Groovetracer and he insists that it best to relieve the spring tension by winding the VTF adjuster beyond 3. I have an Ekos on my LP12 and I had set the VTF via scale but kept about .5 on the tension of the spring. I did this because of the advice I had received from a couple of Linn forums. Their claim was that a completely relaxed spring could "rattle" and that was my thought on the Rega arm.
So I am curious what method you used with your Delos as it should weigh the same as my Kleos. Also the gentleman at Groovetracer told me the 150 gram was best for my arm/cart combo. I wanted to go with the 130 for the reasons mentioned. I am wanting to order soon and want to get some feedback on setup.
Thanks in advance.
Theo |
I want to listen to music, not get a new kit assembly hobby. |
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Rega tables are susceptible to vibrations due to their purposeful and extremely efficient lightweight construction. After many trial and error sessions, I decided to construct a sanbox for my heavily modified RP3. I also replaced the rubber feet with threaded/adjustable brass footers for top notch isolation from external vibrations.
Now I am just simply amazed by the RP3's ability to reproduce the attack transients in music. Much better reporduction of dynamics and transient response with strong impact.
The bass is punchy and never feels congested, the treble is airy, spacious, and open.
This is, by far, the best set-up I have ever owned and I don't miss my Linn Sondek LP12 combo at all.
Rega RP3 (Only the plinth, bearing well, 24V motor, and double brace remains from the original TT, everything else is gone)
Rega RB808
Rega TT-PSU
Groovetracer Reference sub-platter with Zirconia bearing and Sapphire thrust plate
Groovetracer Delrin platter
Groovetracer 130 gram counterweight
Dayton Audio adjustable brass footers
Edwards Audio Little Belter
Clearaudio Clever clamp
Lyra Delos
Happy listening! |
I have heard the RP10, I am not impressed. Suggest you take a look at the 'U-Turn Audio" Orbit plus, cartridge and arm included. Sold only direct. I was impressed, and kept the unit I ordered. Hey, it comes in green or blue, so it give the significant other a chance to participate. We got the blue one because it sounds better. |
Tablejockey, I am considering a base for the table. As a woodworker I
would like to make something. I had thought about 1.5" MDF with a
cherry veneer. I had made one for my LP12 and recessed some Aurios into
it. But this table doesn't have the footfall issues the Linn did. Years ago I
had a P25 and had it on a Base platform with AQ feet. But as time allows, I
would like to make something but work has me strapped for shop time right
now.
I do intend to experiment with a few things to see which direction I need to
go.
In another thread, Jonathan Carr gave me advice on the VTA shim
thickness and he recommended 3.4mm and I am using pre made shims of
3.5mm, I would like to have a 3.4mm single shim made but haven't had the
time to meet with a machinist. Many thanks to Mr.Carr for his help and
cartridge design.
Thank you for your comments. |
Miner42,
Sometimes we pay a lot for a smidgen of improvement. |
I started with a P5 and Exact cartridge; upgraded to the P7 with a Dynavector DV20XH; then upgraded again to the P9 with Lyra Delos. Upgrade has got me thinking about the RP10. Trading in the P9/Lyra fpr the RP10/Alpheta would be an additional $3200. To be quite honest, after auditioning I could not justify the cost for no differnce in PRaT nor sound. In fact, I felt the P9 had better lower end but the RP10 had a bit, just a smidgen more sizzle. In the end I decided to keep my P9. Just MOHO. Enjoy your RP10, it is a very nice table. |
"I bought an RP-10 about a month ago and once I got it set up with the correct VTA for my Cartridge (Kleos) I have been very pleased."
Good to hear the 10 doing the Lyra justice. Doesn't surprise me it's getting the job done. You obviously play it thru an appropriate phono pre.
I'm sure it's in another league compared to the P9. Modding a P5 convinced me decent sound can be had for minimal expense. If the 10 were out when I jumped ship to VPI, I would have considered the RP10.
Have you considered brass footers/maple slab? If I had that table, I would do the BLACK anodized brass footers and 4" black maple slab(Mapleshade) The table would look more like 50K after the makeover.
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Theo,
Thanks for your in-depth reply. I own the Rega Isis CDP and know when Rega puts out an expensive product it is more than competitive. Renewing your desire to purchase more vinyl tells the whole story.
Anyone else? |
I bought an RP-10 about a month ago and once I got it set up with the correct VTA for my Cartridge (Kleos) I have been very pleased. I had heard the RP-8 at a dealer which also had a Kleos and I came away wanting more bass. I feel that the RP-10 delivers that bass as well as a very musical tonality through-out. I traded in a well equipped Linn LP12 that I had for about 5-6 years and it was a tough decision to make the change. I looked at a few other tables and felt that Rega would be a less dramatic change in musical presentation. Some tables, regardless of how good, just seemed to swing the pendulum too far for me to make a transition. That said, I really am very pleased with my decision, the RP-10 deliveres the music in away that pleases my ear on most every level. It has great pacing and is very very quiet, and seems to track effortlessly. I used it about a week with the outer plinth and cover and decided to use it in the "skeletal" mode and had a custom acrylic cover made. I believe that the absense of the plinth and cover add to the silence of the table. I am also impressed with the construction, in the showroom I thought, Wow!, this looks really skimpy and easily damaged. But once I had it at home and looked it over I realized that, although delicate, it is not flimsy in any way. I do want to try a few tweaks, such as the GrooveTracer counter weight and possibly the optional feet available from Rega.
As far as how it compares to other tables, I originally set out and made a deal on a Classic III, but I just couldn't pull the trigger as it seemed such a big departure from the LP12 and the Rega seemed to be a much smaller step and a more comfortable mental choice. I will say with confidence that I am not looking back with any re-morse or "what if's". I do hope in a few more years I can afford to step up to another table, but I have come to realize that, that gap will require a substancial financial leap. That is of course when that upgrade bug bites again, (is there a repellant for that?? other than budget)
On a psychological plain, I have renewed my desire to buy more vinyl.. |
