ramtubes- I'm not an electrical engineer, but here's what I know about the amp. It draws 400 watts from the wall. I don't know the damping factor. It has four feedback settings.
I will say that I just upgraded to the LM 508 from a Parasound Halo Integrated. I'm running 84 db, 4 ohm speakers, so the Parasound should have been putting out 240 wpc.
The LM 805 plays WAY louder than the Parasound. More importantly, it sounds great from zero on up. The Parasound took 20% volume or more to begin reaching it's zone sound quality-wise.
I'm new to tube amps, but I never would have guessed 48 wpc would play louder and sound better than a 240 wpc pretty decent amp, even with low sensitivity speakers. I can't imagine how it would sound with more sensitive speakers. |
Freesole- I recently purchased this same amp (and also live in the Seattle area).
I am running Neat Acoustics Iota-Alphas. Less costly than what you're looking for, but very low sensitivity. Probably 84 db as opposed the their 86 db claimed rating. I have no problem driving them with this amp, and 10:00 on the volume is getting pretty loud. And they sound fantastic.
That said, there are better speakers out there for more money.
A few days ago I heard the Spendor A7's with the LM 845 amp (22 wpc). The Spendor's ($5,000) sounded AMAZING! They immediately caught my attention from across the room. The only caveat is that I did not hear them at loud volume and I was unfamiliar with the music being played. That said, I'm already saving my money in hopes of picking up a pair in the future.
I highly recommend checking them out. They have some at Gig Harbor Audio you can check out.
Where specifically do you live? |
Audio Note AN-E Devore Fidelity 093/096 If you decide on Salk....I have a pair of Soundscape 8's in perfect condition that Ive never used. You can have em for 50% off. I have about 10 pairs of speakers (Including Audio Note AN-E Spx Al Nico and Devore 0/96) so will probably never use the Salk's. |
I see others here have recommended you get efficient speakers. They are correct. 48 watts of single ended power is not the same as 48 watts of push pull power, tube or SS.
I read the specs, looked at the manual and no where is the damping factor stated. It is often low with this type of amplifier. Read my posts on AG about the effects of low damping (high output impedance).
This amp should draw a lot of power from the wall, at least 300 watts, but I could not find that information either.
The 805 is a zero bias triode and thus has high plate impedance. Unless they use a great deal of feedback the amplifier will have high output impedance.
Can someone find the output impedace of this amplifier? |
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Devore O96 is on my wish list but $<£ in Uk
tannoy would be good to and be able to breathe music into your life. |
I would love to hear Tannoy's. Haven't heard them before but have to admit that they are not my aesthetic.
@djfst agreed. I was just surprised given the gear was primarily McIntosh. Given I was also thinking I would go McIntosh integrated or hybrids, I was surprised at the performance in the high range. |
I use 845 monoblocks (ASL-1006-845DT) with 15” Tannoy Monitor Golds, and it sounds fantastic - if you don’t want to vintage, I think Tannoy’s new Legacy Ardens are in your price range. I haven’t heard them, but it might be worth an audition. Tannoys sound great with SET amps |
@freesole,
I've owned the Olympica III, and the highs were the completely opposite than "harsh." If you felt the treble area was harsh and fatiguing, then it was coming from some other component in the system, not the Sonus Fabers. Remember that when you are demoing speakers, you are demoing a system, not the speaker. |
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At your price point new you're looking at Daedalus Athena or Muse. The owner Lou won't steer you wrong. There's also a used Argos mk2 for sale right now that is very tempting. |
freesole does not coincide with my daily experience - I own the Oly 3's, run a Hegel cdp with a Pass amp and tube pre and the highs are anything but 'piercing'; I auditioned the Sopra 2's with the beryllium tweeter, and if you want to hear a bright sounding speaker, check those bad boys out the upper end on the Oly's in my bright room, with the silk dome tweeter are smooth as butter; not sure what was going on in your audition, wouldn't even know where to go with your preferences, maybe a ribbon tweeter or panel speaker; best of luck |
@facten I should give them a try. They are about 2 hours from me but I do travel in that direction once a month or so. Is there a particular speaker that you would recommend? |
@markmendenhall I was initially quite impressed with the pace and dynamic quality of the low end but it was the high's which were somewhat piercing (I am fairly sensitive to high harshness). The Sonus was being powered by McIntosh and Hegel gear. |
freesole
Realizing that you don't have Daedalus on your "updated" short list , they are in Ferndale WA. I don't know how close that it is to Seattle but it may afford you the opportunity to audition
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whatever harshness you heard through the Olympicas was not speaker related
recording, gear, or room related causes, but not the speaker
the Oly 3 has a unique ability to allow almost any recording to sound listenable; great recordings sound excellent, poor recordings manage to avoid being immediately changed out, it really is a remarkable feature of the speaker
they are power and current hungry though, chintzing on power can leave you underwhelmed |
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I think you have a good list that includes a number of different sonic profiles. I know that ProAc and Devore will work well with your amplifier. I have not heard the first three with the line Magnetic so can’t give you any input.
Good luck with your search.
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So still a lot of choices out there but these are the ones that interest me most at this time: - Magico A3 - Demo'd
- Salk Soundscape 8 - Have not demo'd but am familiar with the RAAL tweeters from my Ascend's
- Joseph Audio Perspective - Have not demo'd
- Proac D48R - Have not demo'd
- Devore Super 9 - Have not demo'd
Problem is, most of these speakers are not available for demo anywhere in Seattle where I am. The ones that I have taken off the interest list are: - Focal Sopra 2 - Focal's forwardness and the reproduction of highs does present to me as being a little harsh. Not what I would want in a $10k speaker.
- Tekton Encore - Not the most appealing speaker visually (for me) and it is enormous. A small sample of bad reviews of customer service also turned me away.
- Dynaudio Contour 60 - Would still love to listen to these but have heard that they are power hungry and my amp may not be a good match there.
- Sonus Faber Olympica 3 - During a demo, the high's of a particular song by Jocelyn Brown - Somebody Else's Guy was a bit harsh. I don't get that from my current Ascend's.
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For the past few years I've been listening to many products from Line Magnetic through many different sets of speakers. And although these amplifiers are versatile enough to drive almost everything, they always sound better paired with high efficiency speakers.
I owned the big LM219ia and it was connected to Zu Audio Omen Def most of the time. Other good matches that I experienced (my own and at friends and dealers places) were with Omega speakers, Audio Note, Reference 3A, ATC, Tannoy and DeVore. But the brand I've seen more times associated with Line Magnetic amplifiers is Zu Audio.
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With my Ascend’s, they are being powered by the 805’s with no issues. I rarely go above the 9 o clock mark in volume. I don’t play at anywhere near concert levels. I haven’t heard the A3’s with my LM but I am curious about them. The shop seems to think there is no problem with the LM and its power specs being able to drive the A3’s. |
There are a number of members who are driving Tekton speakers with lower watt amps. I myself did so with the Pass XA30.8 and soon will try a 2A3 amp.
I know of two other SE owners who are using 10 and 8 watt amps to great satisfaction. There are others as well. |
@freesole
Although LM805 or 508 appears to have lot of power compared with other SET, they have limitation.
I could play my Lanshe 4.1 with 100w Rogue Cronus Magnum II loud in my spacious listening room for 5 years with no problem at all.
But after playing loud with LM508, power tube popped up leading to failure of diodes one week ago.
Thus it is undergoing repair.
After that incident, I bought used Lyngdorf 2170 which will be delivered on coming Thursday.
I am considering two track strategy, that is, to play loud rock or orchestral music through Lyngdorf 2170 and to play vocal or chamber music through LM508.
If you are going to use LM805 you have to find efficient (at least 93db/w ) speakers which are not power hungry.
The 4 speakers you listed and Tekton Design speakers are power hungry requiring at least 100W or more to play at concert level.
Watersalas switched from LM 508 to Lyngdorf 3400 for driving his Tekton Design speaker.
I fully understand it.
Even my Lansche 4.1 speaker appear to need more power than that provided by LM 508 in my spacious listening space with high vault.
If you want to use 48W SET amplifier, you have to find right speakers.
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Thanks @shkong78 I appreciate the offer! Always good to meet someone local that is so willing to help out. I'm ok for the demo for now as I continue to consider some of these other speakers out there right now. I don't think I will go for a Vaughn at this point. |
@geek101 I agree with you in that speaker with active bass will be better match for SET. My Lansche 4.1 works well with LM508 for the reason. @freesole http://www.stereomojo.com/Onix%20XCD-50%20and%20XIA160%20review/XCD-50ReferenceCDPlayerReview.htm I keep VAUGHN CABERNET SPEAKERS just in case plasma tweeter of my main speaker Lansche 4.1 have problem . After updating plasma tweeters 3 years ago, it had no problem since then.
VAUGHN CABERNE has a 93db/w efficiency and work well even with SET. If you want, I can let you audition the speaker at your home for 10 days. I am located near Burlington WA.
Thomas |
@soundsrealaudio Care to elaborate? |
Consider a speaker that has the bass section already powered. Then your tube amp should be sufficient for the midrange and above as long as that section is efficient.
It is not a great idea to buy a speaker for the LM. There are tube amps close the price (used) that can put more SET watts out.
Double the power gets you just extra 3dB btw.
Try one of the Zu audio and Tekton does have 99 dB/ 1W / 1 M @ 8 ohm speakers. |
@firstnot Agreed. I'm in no rush. As I said, the Ascend Acoustics sound fantastic, especially for the investment so I can hold off for a while :) |
@sciencecop I'm not sure I understand your post. Care to elaborate a little more? |
@jperry ah, just saw your posting about the audiogon ad. I'll check that out. Have you compared the ProAc to some of the other speakers that I mentioned in the opening message? Curious to hear your thoughts in comparison. |
@shkong78 I gotta vito the Berlin's simply because of aesthetics. Not a fan given that they will be literally the loudest item in the living room. Appreciate the response though! I bet they sound great but without being able to pass on looks, it doesn't get past my Wife haha |
@jperry I like what I see from the ProAc D48. Unfortunately, not going to be easy to find any place near me for a listening session. How did you get yours?
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I also loved the +proac’s I used to run them with tubes as well Other options that come to mind are AudioNote ANE’s, Living Voice Avatar IBX own a pair and run them with 8wpc they are sublime if you have the room for them to breath think 36" min from the front wall) Coincident speakers, Omega (surprisingly good for the money full ranger), Rethm Speakers these are very interesting full range drivers augmented with powered base i’m even eyeing them and there is a used set on for a hell of a deal right now). All the above are very good choices for low output tube power amps. horns as some may be an option too. |
For me, the best in that system, under 10 K : Monitor audio gold.and Proac D 20 R, D 30 S. Good Lück!!
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@freesole Something to think about. Perhaps it is the components, but the listening experience was impressive without being jaw dropping - if you know what I mean.
Precisely, just think about all the 'jaw dropping' loudspeakers you heard and how quickly you get tired of them.
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@ soundsrealaudio none of the above..........seriously I agree with you that 4 listed speaker may not be suitable for low powered SET amplifier. I think Tekton Design Speakers are also power hungry with many drivers. Their specified efficiency are likely to be exaggerated too. Thus they may not be suitable for low powered SET amplifier either. Tekton Design Impact Monitor’s frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. My estimate of the Impact’s sensitivity was 87.5dB(B)/2.83V/m, considerably lower than the specified 94dB. (Speakers with true sensitivities greater than 90dB tend to be rare and expensive.) Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/tekton-design-impact-monitor-loudspeaker-measurements#k5gt1FV6ml... |
If rushed to judgement on this matter you will certainly fail.
Joseph Audio- Make that your next stop!
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Agree with "SHKong" the VA / dc10Audio Berlin R’s are simply superb speakers for all types of acoustic music when driven by either Tube or SS amplification. I’ve had them for several years, and have found very few speakers can match them, especially with tube amplification. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNz2mVkelog |
none of the above..........seriously |
@freesole
I sent you a PM about your subject.
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Besides my previous recommendations, used Harbeth 40.2, Spendor SP100; also a brand new speaker just out the Odyssey Liquid, at $5900. See show report to be posted this evening... |
There are two pair of ProAc D-48r currently on Audiogon for under 10k. The ribbon tweeter and its integration is great
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I listened to the Magico A3's today. They look much better in person than through photos (they basically look like a black box in photos). Build quality is superb - as you would expect of a $9,800 speaker. The speakers could be driven HARD and yet the sparkle and twang in the highs continued to shine without being harsh in the least. The lower end was good but not as good as impactful as I had heard from the Sonus Faber Olympica 3's. The speakers were driven by Hegel equipment. A great combo but I wonder if it is really 3x better than my current Ascend Acoustics setup...
Something to think about. Perhaps it is the components, but the listening experience was impressive without being jaw dropping - if you know what I mean. |
freesole
I have a Line Magnetic 518IA which is 22wpc mated with Daedalus ArgosV2's , very nice sounding and the 518IA easily drives the Argos without my going past "10 o'clock" on the dial in a 28x20x10 room. Just mentioning for whatever it is worth
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@freesole--- The Double Impacts are tremendous speakers, but the Encores just do everything better--greater clarity, a more holographic sound stage with pin-point imagining, much more authoritative bass, and so on. The Encores have effectively ended my curiosity of what else might be out there that would be an improvement.
No, there were no issues with the LM, though I did end up replacing it with a Lyngdorf TDAI-3400, which does not diminish my love of the LM 508ia. I still consider it to be one of the very best amps I have ever owned. |
