What is the amp rating on the GFI plug and the total amps you have connected to it? That should answer your overloading question. I would start by thoroughly inspecting all the power cables you have running in the system. If there is a bad ground or possibly a wire has been damaged? Replace one cable at a time and see if the problem persists, or the problem cable is isolated. Just some things to try if you have not already. Cheers.
Help with Equitech 1.5Q power conditioner
Hello all. My Equitech GFCI plug on the back keeps popping when I turn on the switches Equitech switches. Am I overloading the unit or is there an issue with the GFCI plug. It worked for a while but was always super easy to trip. I only have my Amp, preamp, TV, and speakers plugged into it. Any help would be appreciated. I am in in San Francisco bay area, are there recommendations to any place I can take to to get it looked at? With it tripping so much would replacing the gfci plug with a new one help (wonder if the current one is worn out?). It is out of warranty and I do not have the box it came in to ship. Thanks!
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I have had a Son of Q for almost 20 years. Never an issue . I would suspect a bad GFI I believe it is an off the shelf Leviton unit. It's probably pretty straightforward and any competent tech. As BigTwin suggested remove all power cords and then try them one at a time. These are pretty simple inside so hopefully it's limited to the breaker. |
I am actually more than a little surprised that there even IS a GFCI outlet on a conditioner. I'm not sure what the point of it is unless it's within 6' of a sink... :D In any event, GFCI outlets are pretty standard. If you know how to use a screwdriver you could replace it in less than 5 minutes, but I honestly have no idea what you would use it for. Someone please explain.... :D |
A GFCI does not trip on an overload. It trips when there is about 5 to 6 milliamps of current to ground. Technically A GFCI is required on the output of a balanced power system. I assume the GFIC feeds all the rest of the downstream regular outlets on the rear panel. I assume the breaker on the rear panel is not tripping from an overload. . My guess is you have a piece of equipment you are plugging into unit that is leaking current to the equipment ground of the unit. It might be two pieces of equipment causing the problem. First I want you to follow these instructions. Unplug everything from the rear panel outlets, including anything plugged into the GFCI outlet. Turn on the unit’s power switch. Power up the unit. Reset the GFCI outlet Does it reset? With nothing plugged into any outlets does it remain reset, on? Yes? Do you have a good multi meter? Like a Fluke? Set it to AC volts and measure the voltage on the GFCI and downstream outlets from Hot to Hot. (Should measure 120V nominal)... Then from each Hot to the equipment ground contact. (Should measure 60V nominal). All is good? Next. Do you have a table lamp. Incandescent light bulb by chance? Plug the lamp into the GFCI outlet. It should light without any problems. GFCI should not trip. Post back your results. Next test will be trying to find the culprit(s) that’s causing the problem. That’s where you will need a good multimeter. . |
Thanks everyone for your comments. I just received a new outlet and will look at installing it over the weekend. I’ll post results here, or any testing I end up doing to track it down. For the few questions above, I do not plug anything into it - it faults when I power on the other devices. this is a stock image of the back. Great (or not so great) to hear others experienced the same thing but able to fix. |
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Other devices? . 1.5Q Same as your link .
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@jea48 my bad the link has the incorrect image. I'll add mine. The top left is the receptacle that has the reset button. The only devices are the TV, 2 speakers, preamp and amp are all that are plugged into the 1.5Q. none of which are plugged into the gfci plug - those are all plugged into the regular outlets on the back |
https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/5443352-eed0392e-equitech-15q-balanced-power-system.jpg @califortini said:
Thanks for the additional information. Are the regular outlets still Hot, energized, when the GFCI outlet trips? IF not, that is because they are connected to the load side of the switch in the GFCI outlet. When the GFCI trips it opens the switch. Therein Kills power to the regular outlets. . How to wire a GFCI outlet and GFCI protect other outlets . |
Oh, now I get it. GFCI outlets do go bad, but it could also be equipment with a leaky capacitor to ground or a reactive load, which is most likely with bigger motors and amps. If you find the problem is only your amp, I’d suspect swapping a GFCI won’t help. Sometimes these trips happen intermittently, so hard to diagnose fully. Of course another alternative is to see if you can trigger any other outlet. Maybe take the suspect piece of gear to your kitchen counter and see if you can trigger one of those outlets. |
FYI, the two 120V power systems are not configured the same. Though both, the OP’s, electrical service and the Equitech 1.5Q power conditioner are grounded split phase power systems. The electrical service is a grounded power system. 120/240V. Two hot ungrounded conductors with a voltage of 240V nominal measured between the two Hot conductors. The neutral, the grounded conductor. From either Hot, ungrounded conductor, to the neutral, grounded conductor, measures 120V nominal. (Split Phase: Two 120V windings connected in series. The center point of the two windings connection is the neutral. The neutral is intentional connected to ground.) When a 120V outlet is connected to the AC mains of the electrical service the Hot connects to the hot terminal on the outlet and the neutral connects to the neutral contact on the receptacle. EGC connects to the ground contact of the outlet. (EGC is bonded to the neutral, grounded conductor, in the main electrical service equipment, electrical panel.) . The Equitech 1.5Q power conditioner has an isolation transformer. Primary winding is 120V. Secondary winding is two 60V windings wired in series. The center point of the two windings connection is the neutral, the grounded conductor. The two outer ends of the two series windings are the HOT, ungrounded conductors. Difference of potential, voltage, measures 120Vac, Hot to Hot. From either Hot conductor to the neutral, grounded conductor, measures 60Vac. The neutral is intentionally connected to the chassis of the Equitech 1.5Q, making it the Grounded Conductor... This connection to the chassis will also be where the EGCs conductors from the equipment ground contacts on all outlets will connect. (Note, the neutral from the Equitech 1.5Q is not used for power. It is used to configure the 120V output of the Equitech 1.5Q as grounded 60/120V power system. As you can see the 120Vac power consists of two Hot ungrounded conductors. Not a Hot and neutral... The two current carrying contacts on a 120V electrical outlet are fed with two Hot conductors. EGC contact on the outlet, from the neutral bonded to the chassis connection inside the Equitech 1.5Q . From either Hot contact on the receptacle to the ground contact will measure 60Vac nominal. The majority of audio equipment is designed to be fed from a grounded power system. A Hot ungrounded conductor an a neutral grounded conductor. . A GFCI works by measuring the current that travels through the GFCI. Ideally it will measure the same on both sides, lines. If there is an imbalance of more than around 6ma the sensing device in the GFCI will cause the GFCI to trip. I believe that is what is happening with the OP’s Equitech 1.5Q. . |
Hi @jea48 - Not my first time going through a balanced power system, though it is the first time I've known about GFCI on an example. I read through your explanation, which is what I remember. The part that I don't get is how a GFCI, connected to the secondary windings, tripping on a balanced power system would not also trip the kitchen outlet. As you point out, the ground is not part of the GFCI sensing strategy in either case, but it's the imbalance between the current carrying conductors (which ground should not be except on a fault) which causes the trip. |
Say there is a small leakage ground fault in one of the OP’s equipment to chassis. Say it is on the neutral wire inside of the equipment. When the piece of faulted equipment is plugged into an outlet on the Equitech 1.5Q current will flow from the Hot ungrounded conductor to the chassis to the EGC. An imbalance of current will be detected between the two lines an cause the GFCI to trip. (Remember the equipment neutral is being fed with a HOT ungrounded conductor). When the same piece of equipment is plugged into a GFCI, say in the kitchen, the small leakage ground fault will be connected to the neutral grounded conductor. There will not be a current imbalance in the hot and neutral conductors feeding the GFCI. |
While you were thinking I proved myself wrong. I performed a simple test. I picked a GFCI outlet in the kitchen. Verified the AC polarity was correct with a multimeter. (That is a must for the test) I installed a wire jumper from the neutral contact to the EGC contact.... GFCI tripped immediately. Reset the GFCI then checked for voltage from neutral contact to EGC, measured 1.2mV. I can’t see the math how that would cause enough of an imbalance to cause a 5ma current flow to ground. Now I have to go think on this for awhile... . *** FYI, never install a jumper from the HOT to the EGC for obvious reasons. That would be a 120V dead short to ground. Instant Fireworks, and tripped circuit breaker in the electrical panel. That’s why I checked for the correct polarity on the outlet first.
EDIT: Food for thought. My test there was a difference of potential of 1.2mVac from the neutral contact to the EGC. With the Equitech 1.5Q there is a difference of potential of 50Vac. Still thinking...
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@jea48 Couple of thoughts. I = V/R, so when R goes to 0, current goes to infinity. In this case any R less than 0.24 Ohms would result in 5mA, assuming 0 source resistance. 0.0012 V / 0.24 Ohms = 0.005 A 0.0012 V / 0.1 Ohms = 0.012 A The other thing is that when doing so on a live home circuit you are essentially shorting the entire home’s neutral to ground. |
EDIT:
My above comment is based on a piece of the OP’s equipment as referred to in my post earlier today for clarification. My test in my last post 01-08-2025 at 02:54pm would not be the same as using an actual piece of the OP’s equipment plugged into a GFCI outlet in a kitchen. . |
@erik_squires said:
It’s already at ground potential. At the service panel the service entrance neutral conductor, electrical panel metal enclosure, and all EGCs (at panel) are bonded together.
With the circuit turned off to a bathroom GFCI outlet from the neutral contact to EGC ground contact I measured 0.4 ohms. (Fluke 87) Earlier I measure 1.2mV (0.0012V) from neut to EGC. I = V/R I = 0.0012V / 0.4 ohms = 0.003A (3mA) Not sure what that tells us though. If a load is connected to the outlet I assume the amps would be higher. |
It's close to ground potential... :) but now you have another path which is participating in that current flow. I'd be curious to see you measure the actual current next time. :) |
That is correct. I have been wondering if somehow the provided parallel path is what caused the GFCI to trip. My math above says 3mA. I doubt that was the reason the GFCI tripped. I’m not sure the 3mA number has an relevance to why it tripped. Maybe it was the parallel path I provided... I apparently upset the sensing unit in the GFCI though. .
I have been thinking about that myself. I think a resistance should be put in series with the amp meter. That would replicate a small ground fault leakage more like that of a piece of equipment. I keep going back to your statement in a post above.
I don’t know how old the OP’s equipment is but I believe some equipment manufacturers put a cap or sometimes a high ohm-age resistor connected from the neutral to the chassis. If it is a leaky cap would it be more susceptible to pass current to the chassis at 60V potential to ground than a few millivolts to ground? (Equitech 1.5Q AC mains Conductor that feeds the neutral wire in the equipment is ungrounded 60V to ground.) (House wiring branch circuit neutral conductor a few millivolts to ground at the chassis.) All conjecture on my part though. . |
Since it's AC, there's no + or - involved. In a balanced outlet the meter should read 60VAC between either hot or neutral to ground, and 120VAC between H and N. In a normal outlet H to N is 120V, H to G is 120V and N to ground is near 0. Though we don't use signs, it's correct to say that H and N in a balanced outlet are equal and opposite at any given point in time. |
I haven’t seen every piece of equipment but this should not be the case for many decades. There is however often a resistor/cap between the signal ground and chassis ground, which often leads to endless fun tracking down ground loops. The resistor doesn’t cause ground loops, the ground connection, resistor or not, in the signal causes it. A place where transformer coupled inputs really shine. :) The classic linear power supply I’m familiar with has no reason to connect the neutral to anything but the transformer primary winding but they often usually connect the center tap of the secondary to chassis ground, which is of course also often connected to the EGC. Some equipment I’ve seen does the right thing by avoiding the EGC altogether and being "double insulated." Luxman integrateds are like this, which is brilliant from a noise point of view but given what I’ve seen I’m not sure how their amps are double insulated.
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@oddiofyl - Please tell me what -60V AC means. :) I’m familiar with balanced power and even repped one such device (ages ago). Even if that’s how they describe it, it’s not really accurate. If you doubt me, get a multimeter, and buy an Equitech and measure it yourself. Send me a picture of the + and - readings. :) |
BTW, the output of a balanced power conditioner is not dissimilar from the 220V outlets your big appliances (range, dryer, HVAC, etc.) use. It’s still not one +120 and one -120 V line. It’s two lines from the same transformer winding that run in opposite polarity. It is impossible to measure +120VAC. You can’t tell one from the other. The only thing you can do is measure the delta between them, which in this case would be 220VAC. I’ve often wondered, along the same lines if the ideal situation wasn’t actually to run 220VAC to an audio room and use a combined step down and balanced output conditioner. Balanced power to balanced power essentially. While I don't want to encourage anyone to poke around in a 220V outlet, I really don't! I can say categorically that if you took the most advanced multimeter on earth to your dryer's 4 prong outlet you can identify 2 hot lines, but cannot identify one as being + and the other - based on the meter's readings. Impossible. You could at best identify 2 lines which are either ground or neutral, and 2 lines which are energized. |
@erik_squires I believe this is what @oddiofyl is referring to. The drawing is showing one cycle in time. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/transformer-trans63.gif The drawing shows a single phase, split phase, power transformer’s primary and split phase secondary winding. For this discussion use 120V for the primary winding. Secondary winding: Center tap of the two windings is the neutral which will be intentionally earth grounded, bonded to the frame/chassis of the transformer enclosure, making it the Grounded Conductor. This Makes the secondary of the isolation transformer a Grounded Power System... (The neutral conductor will not be used for output power. All EGC conductors will connect to the grounded conductor.) The two outer leads of the secondary are ungrounded, HOT, legs. From one HOT leg to the other HOT leg the voltage is 120Vac nominal. From either HOT leg to ground the voltage is 60Vac. Neither of the two Hot legs are a neutral. They are both HOT ungrounded legs. Again, the neutral is the center point of the two 60 volt windings that are connected in series. The neutral is connected to ground which makes the output a grounded power system. Just because the NEMA 5-15R or 5-20R 120V receptacle has an Identified contact and connection terminal screw does not make the HOT ungrounded 60V to ground conductor a neutral conductor. It is not... . |
That seems close, but the house N is not grounded through the Equitech. Or at least should not be. Ye olde (pre 1990s?) dryer DID bond N and ground internally to the dryer. There’s no reason to do that with a balanced conditioner... but I don’t speak for the manufacturers. Who knows what crazy things they do. The secondary winding on these isolated devices is split. The center of the two coils is bonded to ground, so the outside ends of the 2 coils are each equal and opposite 60VAC. And herein is a problem which the founder of Jensen transformers wrote about ages ago, that there’s still the possibility for a ground loop. Ooops. Anyway, what floating ground load? |
@devinplombier said:
No not all all. Click on the Link below. Look at the secondary winding on the right hand side of the transformer. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/transformer-trans63.gif At the top of the drawing there is a lead that has IA + ___>______60V___ The bottom of the drawing there is a lead that has IB - ___>______60V___ (*Note: I added 60V to each lead.) The 2 Hot leads, (60V + 60V = 120V between them), connect to the Hot and neutral terminals on a 120V GFCI duplex receptacle LINE. . (A GFCI duplex receptacle has LINE and LOAD connections). It doesn’t matter which lead you connect on the neutral and Hot terminals on the GFCI duplex receptacle. (* Though ALL DUPLEX RECEPTACLES INSTALLED ON THE LOAD SIDE OF THE GFCI OUTLET SHOULD FOLLOW THROUGH THE SAME AS YOU WIRED THE GFCI OUTLET. That’s why two different colors of conductors should be used. Any two different colors other than WHITE or GRAY. / / / Safety Equipment Ground that is created, wired, on the secondary side of the transformer. Per NEC code the secondary winding of an isolation transformer shall be earth grounded. NEC code says the ground shall connect to the main grounding system (Grounding Electrode System) of the main electrical service entrance neutral conductor. (NEC allows the connection to be made at any point on the system ground.) (Here Equitech may have violated the NEC. It depends on when the unit was made. For many years the NEC allowed the EGC at the wall outlet to be used for a grounding electrode conductor, ground. That was changed many years ago. The Equitech 1.5Q power conditioner uses the in-wall branch circuit wiring EGC, (Equipment Grounding Conductor), for the earth ground for the secondary of the transformer. The EGC ground pin on the IEC inlet connector connects, bonds, to the Equitech 1.5Q metal enclosure. I’m getting there... Back to the drawing of the transformer’s secondary winding. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/transformer-trans63.gif See the Blue line that connects to the center of the secondary winding? It has a - on top of it and a + on the bottom. This lead is the neutral Center Tap of two 60V windings. For electrical safety the Secondary winding of an isolation transformer must be wired as a Grounded AC Power System. That is accomplished by connecting the winding center tapped neutral lead to earth ground and bonding the neutral to the metal enclosure housing the transformer. (The neutral lead from the center tap of secondary winding connects to the same point the EGC ground wire from the IEC inlet connector is bonded to the transformer metal enclosure. This is the same point that all EGCs for outlets will connect. There is the safety equipment ground for all the power oulets.
There is not any floating ground loads. One down side of a plug and play isolation transformer power system? IF the wall outlet, the unit plugs into, is not grounded... . |
So maybe I am conceptualizing this all wrong. I guess in my mind I view electricity like water. It flows in through the hot pipe and out the neutral pipe, if you will, and the ground catches spills :) Here we have 2 hots at 60V each flowing in through both the hot wire and what normally is the neutral wire. How does it flow out then? Can’t be through the ground wire. Is it then that the two hots are also neutrals? They just swap duties 60 times a second? |
Just so you know the Equitech 1.5Q is a Balanced Power 60Vac - 0Vac - 60Vac System. It is not like the 120/240Vac power system that feeds your home. 120/240Vac,... 120Vac - 0Vac -120Vac Both have split phase secondary windings. Equitech 1.5Q has two 60V secondary windings in series with one another. 60Vac + 60Vac =120Vac The simple answer If a 120V load is connected to the two Hot leads current will travel in the circuit. From one Hot lead, from the secondary winding of the transformer, through the load and return to the the secondary winding on the other hot lead. Think of it like a 240Vac Central Air Conditioning condensing unit outside your house. It’s fed with two Hot ungrounded Conductors and a safety equipment ground. No neutral conductor. The Equitech 1.5Q secondary winding neutral center tap is not used for power. That is unless you have something that runs on 60Vac. That’s what the voltage is from either Hot to neutral. It is only used to created a Grounded Power System and provide a safety equipment ground system. The Equitech 1.5Q puts out 120V only. Two ungrounded Hots and a safety equipment ground.
An Overview of Audio System Grounding & Interfacing Read pages 201, 202, and 203. Page 202 has a simple wiring diagram for a Balanced Power System. . |
thanks for all the tips... a lot go well beyond my ski’s. I’ll tinker this weekend - I thought the outlet would be a quick swap but looks like I have to take the whole chassis apart. Interesting enough, I have everything plugged in a furman surge protector power strip and nothing has tripped. So hope it is just a faulty gfci outlet. I don’t have any meters or other devices to measure current and if I did it would be all Greek to me. |
I see you live about 400 miles from LA. Be safe... It’s hard to believe how fast and far the Santa Ana Winds have spread the fires. It looks like a war zone. .
https://img.usaudiomart.com/uploads/large/5443352-eed0392e-equitech-15q-balanced-power-system.jpg Looking at the photos it looks like you can remove the top cover to access the GFCI duplex receptacle. It appears the top cover also wraps around both sides so will will need to remove those screws as well. IT is very important you wire the new outlet exactly the same as the one you remove. Don’t just use your memory... Use a pencil and a piece of paper and make a detailed drawing showing the colors of the wires and where they connect to the terminal screws. Hopefully the wires are color codded. IF not you will need to install a number or letter to each wire and write them down on your detailed drawing. IT is a must the LINE wires reconnect to LINE and the LOAD wires reconnect to LOAD terminals. Before you reinstall the GFCI outlet back in the rear panel VERIFY 100% is wired exactly the same as it was... .
Different type wiring scheme. The Furman outlets have a neutral and a HOT. (Your house’s AC mains power.) Neutral, Grounded Conductor. HOT, Ungrounded Conductor. The Furman, NO GFCI protection... Voltage measurements taken at an outlet. Hot to neutral 120Vac nominal. Hot to safety equipment ground 120Vac nominal. Neutral to safety equipment ground 0 Vac nominal. . The Equitech 1.5Q is a whole different Animal. .
More than likely easier than finding which piece of equipment plugged into the Equitech 1.5Q outlets is causing the GFCI to trip. . |
OP: BTW, I just realized you can buy GFCI adaptors for ~ $20 from your local hardware store. You plug one into your wall and that will let you test each device without having to move it, and certainly without having to require your conditioner. Here's what I mean: https://amzn.to/424lKl3 |
