How cheap can you go and still be happy with the sound?

Got my sone a system:

Schiit Modi - $100

Sony Integrated Amp - $200

Pioneer SP BS22 Denis Murphy (I live near him) modded speakers - $165

Parts Express 10 in sealed sub. - $75 on sale

DIY high pass filter for the Pioneers wired into zip cord speaker cables - $10

The system is amazing for the $$ and really great on vocals.

I just give all the money I have and more

There's plenty of cheap stuff out there that's good. You just have to search for it.I love it when a speaker company puts out speakers for thousands of dollars and then you read reviews that they suck and aren't worth the money. I just don't have 100,000 to spend,never did...and I won't buy new movie releases for 140 dollars. I seach and look to find cheap albums and cds...there out there....

I think probably you can get very good, if not top notch sound from a good pair of powered speakers, streaming from your favorite service.  

I think it’s impossible to get 100k, very high end system sound with 5k. But you can get maybe 75-85% of the way there. That last 15% will cost you exponentially more as you near 100%. 
 

I do think however, that  you can get 98% of 100k system sound Q  for around 25k. For example, a preowned Hegel 590/600, and preowned Perlisten S7T or Boressen X6 towers. IMO you’d need to spend a lot more to get significantly better sound. 

I have enjoyed this thread.  As it shows where different people are in this hobby.  I don't know if I would use the word cheap as my mission has not been to go cheap.  

I my younger years (60s and 70s).  I purchased and listened to many vinyl records.  One of my first high end (for me) purchases was the Thorens 160 Turntable in 1972.  Then I got married, had kids, had a demanding career, (had to start being an Adult) and vinyl started disappearing.  I packed up the vinyl and the turntable and the focus turned to AV systems and surround sound.  I still listened to music but mostly in the car.

Decades pass, kids are grown and gone, I retire, and I start cleaning out the house.  I find I have several hundred CDs, and rediscover my vinyl and turntable.  I decide I need a 2.1 stereo system.  I set up a room in my basement, repurpose one of AV receivers,  buy a couple of used speakers off Craigs List (AV123 X-Statiks), tune up my Thorens (which still works great), gather up record collections from my peers who are not listening to them anymore, etc.  

Then I start a journey to investigate getting higher end equipment.  I go to High End Audio stores and do a lot of listening.  I start lurking on the Audiogon forums.  I am blown away by how much some people are willing to spend on audio equipment, this is a totally new world to me.  But the most important part of my audio journey was discovering my own needs - fact is I don't SIT STILL and listen to music,  I don't sit in my basement room just to listen to music but I do love having music on when I am doing things.  

Yes, when I hear a high end system in the store using $80K Wilson speakers I can hear the difference - it is amazing sound.  But I realized I don't need that to be happy listening to music.  I probably spend the most time listening to music out on the deck and we know that outdoor acoustics are mostly uncontrollable.  So for me I find spending an exorbitant amount of money for small improvement just is not necessary.  

So I have upgraded my systems to improve the sound but have not spent more than ~$2K as I still get enjoyment out of listening.   I purchased a NAD 388 with Blue Sound module used and replaced the old AV receiver.  It sounds really good, IMO with the X-statiks.  Outdoors I use a Denon DRA-800H 2 channel receiver with Definitive Technologies AW6500 Outdoor speakers.  With these systems I can listen to music and be happy which is the objective for me.  

Sorry for the long post but felt this was a good thread to share my thoughts.

I think it’s impossible to get 100k, very high end system sound with 5k. But you can get maybe 75-85% of the way there. That last 15% will cost you exponentially more as you near 100%.

I do think however, that you can get 98% of 100k system sound Q for around 25k. For example, a preowned Hegel 590/600, and preowned Perlisten S7T or Boressen X6 towers. IMO you’d need to spend a lot more to get significantly better sound.

@megabyte

A Borresen, Schweikert, etc might kill a 5k or 10k rig, but, i have heard rigs in that price range, which sounded better to me than others in the high end...Mbls, Sonuses, etc.

Sure, the Sonuses or D’Agostinos look real pretty (audio jewelry and prestige pricing), but, i wouldn’t be shocked if someone preferred a rig in some lower range (5k or 10k) purely for sonic reasons over the latter. Not everything in the high end is worth its salt sonically, if the consideration of audio jewelry is discarded, imo/ime.

We agree. I’m just making the general point that while you can’t really get a true giant killer system for relatively little money like 5k, you can for a bit more and there’s not much need to spend 100k when you can get so close for 1/4 the cost.

I got a pair of mint/new but open box Perlisten r7t towers at 40% off list, and a brand new Hegel 390 at 35% off list. And for not a ton of $ (in high end audio terms) I feel like I have a true high end system approximately as sonically good as many systems that would cost 5x as much. 

When I started my audio journey, dealer had me listen to some Monitor Audio silver. But then I found out he had some gold’s upstairs. Hhhmmm, wondered how THOSE sounded.

I knew I was I trouble .  .    .        .           .                               .                                .                               .                                                   .                                                             .                                                                        .

I have a pair of Q Acoustics M20s. I bought them because I had seen reviews about how remarkably good they sounded. They were not expensive by today's standards, a pair of 2-way ported active speakers for about $500. I connected them to a streamer and DAC and they sounded very nice. Were they as good as a pair of my passive standmounts and a good sub using a good preamp and amp? No. Did I think they sounded bad because of the difference? No. I take pleasure in how well the speakers perform especially considering their low cost. I hope I never get to a place in this hobby where I can't enjoy a system because I know that a different group of components might sound better. That would be just as bad as not being able to enjoy a good meal at a cheap restaurant because I might have had a better meal somewhere else.

So many different takes on what serves as a baseline system I am actually a bit surprised...Try going cold turkey without your tunes for a few weeks as I did after our house fire, and it helps adjust your minimum standards or at least helps really define them. For nearfield at the computer  I have probably about 700 invested roughly between some modded dayton audio towers and the dac and cheap class d amp. While that doesn't satisfy too well if I am in the next room, it works awfully well when at the computer.

For listening at 8 feet or so away from the speakers, my 2 channel system in the music room meets the need in the size room I have in our temporary home. 2 svs subs, 2 Walsh 2000, VTV Hypex amp 500 wpc, Emotiva TA1 Dac, driven via optical output from the monitor connected to my old dell desktop. It kicks butt and can get uncomfortably loud and surprisingly clean in the small room its in. Low end response extends below 20hz and is well integrated with the Ohm speakers. Expecting the same level of performance once I move back into my house.

Then there is a TV only system driving an Emotiva MR1L and connected with some resto-modded 303AX fronts with dayton audio surrounds and a pair of 10" dayton audio subs with a JBL center speaker. Reasonably flat response down to about 25 hz. Plenty of volume with no shortage of reserve for apartment living.

The music room system is by far the most expensive of all of them and absolutely delivers smiles every time I listen to good source material. Sadly its revealing enough to show poor recordings for what they are. And that is the price paid to enjoy the goodness that comes with a good recording. I think I could be happy with what I have for the rest of my days, but I know that I can get closer to Nirvana...and that will eat at me until I do something about it.

Schiit audio and elac speakers and low price cabling of Audioquest Kimber audio envy cables  for less than 3 k you will get a good system.

The title of my virtual system page was once : How to reach Audiophile satisfaction for 1,000 bucks"...

How :  mechanical and electrical controls of the system embeddings working dimensions especially acoustics with devices of my own at peanuts costs...

Knowledge beat  upgrade when you reach the minimal synergy threshold of your working system...Experiments then put your system at his utmost surprising level of optimal working...

I tried to upgrade  topping the entire cost of my actual system and i fail...

It will cost me a step from 1,000 bucks to 10,000 to really upgrade my speakers system and with very well chosen component which for sure i will be in the obligation to modify...

For my headphone system  the AKG 340 is so good(i wrote 35 pages of review),after my 6 optimizations, the only possible assured upgrade was the costlier Immanis around 10,000 bucks...

But i change my mind why ?

Because it seems to had very moderate bass impact.

my AKG 340 is in so well balanced state , that timbre tone is as speakers, the soundstage if required by the recording is out of my head and the deep bass of the big organ in a church , i hear it with my toes and stomach by bones resonance...

Why buying the Immanis or anything else ?

My K340 is not perfect, some headphone can beat him on some acoustic factor but not in the balance ratio of all these numerous acoustics factors...

I hope you will listen and have fun studying how to make acoustics experiments learning basic...

I proved to myself that we dont need money for a very good system but knowledge which is in acoustics books...

i wish you all a very Merry, happy,healthy, wonderful Christmas with your family...

I hope I never get to a place in this hobby where I can't enjoy a system because I know that a different group of components might sound better. That would be just as bad as not being able to enjoy a good meal at a cheap restaurant because I might have had a better meal somewhere else.

@chenry   +1

@waytoomuchstuff I had to laugh at your wrench tossing story...way too close to the reality of most of us who work on cars because we have to rather than doing it for fun. There was a time when I actually enjoyed turning the wrenches and found joy in it, but the cars that gave me that joy were much easier to modify or repair than the beasts most of us drive today. My musicality requirements for a system to listen to while working on the car are relatively low...but when the resources allow, a 2.1 system that plays louder than the air compressor is a welcome addition to the workspace.

I have come to realize that music can be enjoyed on almost anything from a portable radio to a pair of EV Patricians or whatever.... but getting to true perfection is as unreachable a goal as going faster than the speed of light...and the closer we get takes more and more money for the next increment of improvement.

Sometimes I find myself listening to a recording that if I close my eyes I can almost suspend my disbelief in the illusion of it being live. In those rare moments it feels miraculous that such a thing can happen and I cherish each one of them. I had one such occurrence the other evening when watching a clip on Youtube about how Steinway pianos are built. In the video, there were numerous snippets of audio of one of their pianos being played in an acoustically favorable environment by world renown musicians and there were bits and pieces of those snippets that suspended my disbelief momentarily. I was truly shocked that I could get that level of quality out of a youtube clip but it was right there in the room with me. Certainly not all recordings today are made with the care that audiophiles would appreciate, but this one was and when I think back to what it was like in the bad old days listening to records with the pops and clicks and rather poor standards that applied to their manufacture, I think we really are in something of a golden age now. Speakers are better than ever, the electronics certainly are very good in general, and some of the source material is way better than we ever had on vinyl. That's not to say all vinyl pressings were of low quality, because that is just not true, but many of them were not nearly as good as they could have been. That I am north of 70 and my hearing is not what it once was has not diminished in the slightest my appreciation for good recordings or good music. Playing an instrument helps keep your appreciation of well recorded music fine tuned as well as your appreciation for those who also play ( and much better than I do ). 

Music meaning is no more, no less, in the sound, that our thought content is in our gesture speech act. They intersect without being identical as twins conjointed for life.

I value my very good system speakers or headphone but it has nothing to do for or with my taste in music.

But because it is better to convey the same spoken message in a good clearer and more beautiful way with a clear throat, i want a very good audio/room system.

@livinon2wheels 

Your username says it all.  And, yes, being upside down with your head under a dashboard with feet sticking straight up out the top of a sports car is not as appealing as it used to be.  Those air compressors are noisey little <expletive>.

I don’t subscribe to any audio hobby anathema with a  “race to the bottom system price-wise “ as a yardstick to measure audio performance satisfaction.

i have four systems ranging from $5K to $50K. The “A” system is the go-to critical listening rig. Each of the others has its own bespoke utility and performance quotient that makes me comparatively “happy” in the context of “ good enough”.to meet its planned use.

@waytoomuchstuff I agree with you there, I spent quite a few years in SCCA chasing whatever flavor appealed to me at the time and it was mandatory to do my own work on the cars due to the cost of farming it out. It didn't help the cost of having a competitive car went up about 10-15% per year and eventually got to the place where it was no longer financially affordable to compete regularly. Never lost the hunger for it though and to this day attempt to have a slow, track ready car that I can at least go play on track days. That option is, due to inflation, going away now and so I am officially retired from motorsport involvement. Enjoying recorded music feeds my soul in a vital way that I cannot give up regardless of cost. Since feeding that hunger is necessary to continued sanity, I am attempting to rebuild several systems I had in my home before it burned this past spring. This is by necessity a slow process. I bought a pair of Ohm Walsh 2000s that I am pretty fond of for my office/music room. In combination with a pair of SVS PC2000 Pro subs, and a 500wpc VTV/Hypex NC502 amplifier, and an Emotiva PT1 Dac/preamp and my trusty crusty Dell THX certified computer, I have a nice sounding 2 channel setup for listening to music or watching videos. So for something like 8K approximately its pretty darn good. Is there better out there? Doubtful you could find better for the same money, but who knows? It was all bought new so its under warranty and should last a long time before needing to think about replacement. At 72 its unlikely I will ever need to replace any of it either due to age related issues or because it has fallen that far behind technological advances. Though now that I have said that, Murphy's law will prove me wrong.

More than one thing can be true at a time. It is generally true that you get what you pay for. It’s not realistic to think that you can  put together $2000 system that is going to sound as good as a well put together $20,000 system. Likewise, if you own a $100,000 system, it probably won’t compete with a $500,000 system. But that’s not really the point, the point is to enjoy the music. I think the point is to put together a system within your resources that allows you to take joy from listening to music. that can certainly be done without spending a fortune.

I bought my lady friend a little system for Christmas because she enjoys listening to my system with me. I got her some T plus a Caruso speakers that were demos at a good price and a blue sound power mode. Listened to it in the showroom and it sounded damn good. I would be happy spending a couple of hours every night, listening to good music through that system.
 

The only problem is, she will play horrid music from the 80s and a $1 million system couldn’t make that stuff sound good

@livinon2wheels 

Good product choices.  Great bang for the buck.  I have also "retired" from racing.  My favorite ride is not my quickest, but "makes good noises" when I get on it.

@kerrybh 

"More than one thing can be true at a time."

I love this quote.  I use it often in "conflict resolution" when both parties feel the ultimate goal is to be "right."

It reminds me of what I heard on the radio when I had lots of windshield time, searching for something to listen to on AM.  I came across an old comedy broadcast from decades ago. It went something like this:

Host: We're going to do a math quiz.

Guest:  Okay

Host: What is six plus six?

Guest: (pause)

Host:  It's twelve!

Guest:  NO!!  Six and six CAN'T by twelve.  Eight plus four is twelve!!

Simple.  But makes a prettty profound (and useful) commentary on our deperate attempts to find differences vs searching for common ground. There can be "right" answers on both sides.

There is another saying in my circles, for those who love to travel: 

anyone can travel around the world from a lot of money. Only the smart one can make it work on a limited budget.

Somewhat similar in audio, you might get to learn and explore more from less money. My hifi is midfi mostly but sounds terrific 

One thing that most audiophile here dont get often :

There is No comparison between a system never mind his price BEFORE   mechanical, electrical and acoustical optimization and AFTER  optimization.

NONE...

 Then when we compare systems at different price levels most of the times  we dont know what we speak about because the threefold set of  optimal conditions are not there...

A usual normal  room must be designed acoustically to compensate and help  ONE  gear/speakers system...( relatively low cost is possible )

Or we build from the scratch a very costly acoustic dedicated room of good dimension able to serve and help most speakers /gear...

@grislybutter Loved my old Hafler DH-200. It plugged on for nearly 40 years until the bad luck of water from the fire department took it out. Still sounded good after all that time. I remember adjusting the bias on it once during its long happy life. Other than that and occasionally replacing a fuse it was trouble free and built like a tank.  All audio gear should have that kind of longevity in a more perfect world.

@livinon2wheels re Hafler - it's a pretty amazing piece of hardware. I opened it the other day and it looks pretty old and rusty inside like if I had touched it, it would fall apart into ashes. BUT, it still sounds awesome

@waytoomuchstuff  - Yeah I get that for sure. In today's rather insane terms, my favorite driver is a 4 cyl subaru wagon. Albeit one with everything except the engine upgraded. So it handles, stops and has much better response to control inputs than the stock car it came from. Is it fast? Well, not in todays terms at all 0-60 in about 8 seconds is not fast but on a backroad where I do close to half of my driving, its a great choice. Great on the highway, at least here in VA where there are a ton of 55 mph roads and Interstate speed limits dont exceed 70. Its also reckless driving for anything over 75 regardless of speed limit...so its fast enough, torquey enough and enough fun to be a good all rounder. The more capable exhaust system helps it breathe a bit better than stock and make nice noises but its nothing raucous, just healthy sounding. My other wagon is an automatic and its dog slow. the BRZ is the quickest of the bunch but I like the ergos in the stick shift wagon the best.

About 1% of your NAV.