I'm confused

Here is my update. On my AVR, I changed the speakers to small rather than large, changed the bass to subwoofer only rather than to a combination of main speakers and subwoofer, set the dynamic to normal rather than max, and adjusted the crossover higher on Denon and subwoofer. I poped in The Lord of The Rings, and it sounded rather flat, not as dynamic. Bass was really nondirectional rather than coming from all speakers, especially the front. The voice of Gandorff lacked the warmth that he used to have. In fact, he almost sounded like my 2-yr-old daughter as she was my reference guide. On the bright side, speech was not as muddy.

When I changed all settings back, it sounded really really good, much more dynamic, except when I pushed the limit by turning the volume knob down to -24db. The left main speaker popped twice quickly during the heavy bass.

How much power is enough? It depends. In my case, perhaps a little more. I have wood floor. On the wall, I have a plasma and two rear speakers. When I watch movie, I often leave my window openned for ventilation and my French doors openned for the cool breeze at night. Most importantly, I leave them openned so my head does not spin w/ buzzing sound from heavy bass at the end of the movie. I just couldn't resist the blasting effect.

Tonight, I am no longer confused. I have learned much more from you all. I learn about the limitations. It is a vital process in getting to the truth. It is a concensus that my Denon needs an amp. I am sure with the amp, I can experience MORE dynamic sonic spectrum. I can hear voice with warmth (not muddy); at the same time, I can hear the crystal sound the moment the dropping pin makes contact w/ the rim of the glass. It is a concensus that I need a dedicate source of strong and clean AC.

More importantly, I learn that Marty9876 has been right all this time. "Pick another hobby," he wrote. I reluctnatly learn about my fundamental limitation. It is called cash flow. After all these consultations, I have learned that it takes a lot more cash to get just a little closer in achieving perfection.

Perhaps, if I am good through out the rest of the year, Santa Clause will bring me a nice amp to hook up to my gears. In the meantime, I ought to lower the volume as I ought to mingle more with my nice neighbors.

Please take my remark "Pick another hobby," with a large pile of salt.

Really what I meant is some people are perfectly fine with most any given gear(they are not reading this...) and, myself at least, find the limits of my gear and try to learn why the gear has limits/causes of such limits and how to increase such limits.

To follow this tricky road leads to one end point, a new piece of equiment. Equiment cost money, sometimes a great deal of money. The best I can do is to try and spend my money wisely.

I knew your thread was coming, things not sounding good. Please try the "flat" settings for a week. The human ear/mind has a great ability to adjust. The settings you had were "correct". Right now you are use to listening to a majorly inflated/hyped up soundstage.

" The left main speaker popped twice quickly during the heavy bass"

I have been meaning to say something about clipping. Clipping is way, way bad. This is how equiment dies.

Best of Luck,

Marty

Interesting results Lej1447! I have a few questions regarding the test you conducted.

You said after setting the 8.3s to small you adjusted the crossover higher on BOTH the Denon and Polk PSW350.

When setting your speakers to small and allowing the Denon to perform all the bass management, you should BYPASS the crossover in your powered sub by going "direct in" otherwise you'll have a phenomena known as "cascading filters", which is two crossovers one after the other performing the same task near the same crossover point. This should be avoided because it can hamper the performance of the subwoofer and cause strange dips or humps near that area.

One way to avoid this is to either use the "direct in" jack on the powered sub which in most cases completely bypasses its low pass filter, thus allowing the Denon to handle all the bass management with only one low pass filter in the mix. I noticed that the PSW350 has three inputs. Speaker level, LFE and line level. In your case you should be using LFE because your intended use is for movies. I don't know however if this input bypasses Polk's crossover.

If the LFE input doesn't bypass the subs crossover, then crank it as high as it will go so the Denon's and Polk's filters aren't close enough to affect each other. An example would be setting the Denon's crossover to 80Hz and turning the Polk's all the way up to its 160Hz max setting. You'll still have cascading filters, but this configuration wouldn't be as bad as if they were near the same crossover point. When I was using the NHT SA-3 amp/crossover which is intended for use with my NHT SW3P passive subwoofer, this is exactly what I did since the SA-3 doesn't have a direct in jack. Now that I'm using a Bryston 4B instead of the SA-3, I go directly from the amp to the sub without any filters in the path.

Also, you said you turned the crossover on your Denon up. To what frequency setting? If I had your system I would experiment with LFE settings on your Denon starting in the 80Hz range [if adjustable], this will aleviate much of the bass duty your ARs are enduring while retaining the qualities you like. I don't know if it's the same for your unit, but I see that the AVR-2803 has switchable low pass settings of 40, 60, 80, 100, and 120Hz. If you had set your Denon to 120Hz when you did your test, this could explain why Ian McKellan sounded like a little girl. No, not the OTHER reason, heheh! And, if your Denon was set to this while the Polk had a slightly lower setting these two things in combination could cause a "hole" or "suck out" at that frequency, thus the lack of warmth which is usually attributed to an upper bass hump. Also, try the 60Hz setting and see how that works.

Check all these issues pertaining to your LFE settings, because something as simple as this could be at the root of your dilemna.

In the end, it may just be your Denon. After all, its 90wpc rating is probably a bit optimistic and not an indication of its actual ability to supply dynamic power and high current on demanding movie tracks. It's like my old Integra GSR which had a high horsepower rating and could rev like a demon, but was dog at low RPMs because it had no low end torque at all.

Another thing that might complicate your situation as well is speaker AND subwoofer placement. If you haven't taken a lot of care in placement and set up, search on line for some guides for HT speaker placement. You'd be surprised how vital proper placement of all speakers and especially the subwoofer is to achieving a great movie experience. Yes, subwoofer placement is crucial and in my opinion the most difficult speaker to position.

Sean, quite frankly I'm stunned that you SAY you hadn't thought of the "small" setting for Lej1447's 8.3s. Over the years, I have enjoyed and learned immeasurably from your posts pertaining to 2 channel audiophilia. I'm very honored by you compliment!

Lej1447, if you think setting up a home theater is CONFUSING, don't ever take the step to 2 channel listening. I find this arena to be far more complex with endless upgrade paths and limitless permutations in search of musical bliss. But the rewards can be magic!

Keep at it!

Ahh, 2 ch is easier. Less channels..:)Cheaper also.

Just goofing around.

Marty

Gunbei: My HT system consists of "large" speakers i.e. the mains have dual 12's and an 8", the center has dual 8's in a large box, the rears have two 10's and an 8", etc... As such, i've not had to tinker with various settings. With that in mind, the simple but elegant solution that you arrived at was initially out of my scope. That is, i never use those controls so i never thought about them. : )

Your suggestion to Lej regarding filter settings is right on the money. Hopefully he'll try that and be able to obtain a happy medium between fullness of sound and the SPL's that he desires. Sean
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