KEF 107 without Kube

I heard them at a dealer without the cube years ago and I was very impressed. Overall good balance imaging and bass was good too. Dealer preferred them without the cube, but I didn't hear it so I cant say.

So I just auditioned them at this dudes house and they were stupid amazing.  The bass was very deep and full for a speaker this size, or almost any size for that matter..  But THEN I found out later that he had turned the bass knob up to +6 to get them to this point.   I felt this was a very, umm, mediocre or cheating way to get the job done.

I really don't like running things through an on-board EQ as it's very imprecise.

I'm not sure of a way around it though with an integrated amp since miniDSP won't work and is just cumbersome in this second system (i.e. I want to keep the wring very simple).

So you thought that it sounded great until you found out why it sounded great, and that ruined it for you. How audiophile of you.

First impressions are not long term satisfaction, so don’t throw shade on other people like that. Especially such one sided and off kilter shade.

the long term result would be as the person said they would personally experience. tha they did not speak of directly, but only indicated. they indicated, in so many words, that this was their experience and way they move in the world.

That they won’t like the sound in the long term. Where the eq characteristics would be understood and heard, in the long term, overall, as a lack of quality in the sonic results.

I’ve owned those speakers before, and I had the cube. What I did is I upgraded the outboard EQ. I changed the power supply, socketed all the opamps therein,and then tested out various opamps....and I even biased them into class A, and so on. It made for a marked improvement. but still, in the end, it is an extra piece of unwanted sound quality damaging electronics--no matter how much I improved it.

It might be ’enough’ for some people’s speed of intelligence (intelligence has cognitive speed/rate as a fundamental) in recognizing faults or hearing faults, over time. It might satisfy some folks desires as tied to that intelligence and applied analysis, and it might do it for a long time.

For some of us, it takes days, or even minutes  -to hear it. Mere seconds, for the more experienced in the given field. (in this case the complex field of audio)

I owned a restored pair of KEF 107s for a couple of years. You’re going to want the Kube. The set was designed as a system and people selling 107s without it use the excuse that they sound better without...they don’t. The Kube offers a lot of room tuning flexibility. Also, note the 107/2 Kube is different than the original 107 Kube. The non hardwired Kubes are more desirable since you can run the cables of your choice.

After purchase, I began hoarding 107 parts. Extra tweeters, B-110 mid drivers, and I owned 3 Kubes at one point. They can be hard to find, but do turn up on the auction site from time to time. The stock power (wall wart) is good to have too.

If you go through with the purchase, take $500 off any asking price so you can fund a Kube purchase. Sellers believe they can get full market value on an incomplete set. Don’t fall for it.

@roxy54 Can you provide a universally accepted definition of an audiophile? You're probably right to assume I'm not that. I am, however, annoyed by your response and kindly ask for you to troll your superiority complex to other boards.

@yakbob I tend to agree with you and can't get over the fact that the Kube is needed.  I did get a good enough price so I think I'm good. I'll start looking for a Kube.. 

The 107/2 Kube works the same/maybe better on the 107 correct?  In my time researching that seems to be the consensus but there are always those who claim each Kube was matched to that particular speaker and cannot be separated. I believe that's hogwash but who knows.  I'm here to learn.

@roxy54 Let me help you understand a little better. Most "audiophiles" prefer the straightest less altered signal path as possible. They want to believe their speakers are capable on their own merits to produce an accurate full range of sound without "electronic" assistance.

Here’s an example for you. You test drive a corvette and OMG it’s SO much faster than you expected. After your drive you find out there are mods to the engine making it faster than the base Corvette should be. So to reproduce the same high/excitement, you too much employ similar mods... Many which come with downsides.

Lastly, don't come to this thread making snarky responses to people trying to learn. I'm sure your level of Audiophilia is beyond what the common man can understand which makes me wonder why you're wasting your time responding to a lesser experienced person like myself.

So once you found out he had the bass bumped up did you ask him to make make it flat and you didn’t like it then? 

@mofojo no because we were walking back to the car when I thought to ask. I've never auditioned speakers before where they EQ'd them so I didn't think to ask.  

Also, I'm getting such a good deal that they're easily worth the money even if I'm not happy with the sound.. I KNOW what they're capable of and it's pretty dang special.

Based on a picture of the rear, you certainly can use an EQ between the pre and power amp.  Remove the jumpers on the back.

If you happen to be streaming with Roon you can substitute the EQ's built in there instead.

According to John Atkinson ’s 1991 measurements, the KEF107 definitely need kube in circuit or some sort of EQ for bass extension.

https://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/10791FIG09.jpg

@erik_squires Thanks for that info, I might look into that.  I don't have as much time and know how (or willingness to experiment) as many on here so I appreciate your help.

The Kube 107.2 is not the best option for a 1st gen 107 speaker. It may work, but the crossover is different.
However, the claims (I've read them too) that the Kube is serial matched for each pair of speakers is a bit of hogwash, I could not tell a difference in the 3 Kube's I ran with my 107s.
The 107 is still a fantastic speaker. I would have kept mine if I didn't need to fund another speaker purchase. Don't be put off by the extra piece of electronics to run them, many speakers are tied to extra bits as part of their design including the new $30k Jubilee. I wish I has the room and the funds for that one. :-)

I have a pair of KEF 107/2's and the matching cube.  One of the cuts I use for auditioning speakers is "A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square" by Manhattan Transfer. The 107/2's rendition is magnificent.  Listen to how clear the transition from the group to a single male voice followed by a single female voice just about 2:30 into the song.  At the time most all other speakers failed to sound as good.  In my old house I had one room for both audio and video.  Even with the cube I didn't think the low bass was good enough for some movies so I used a sub and shelved the cube.  Excellent sound for me.  My new house has separate audio and video rooms so I bought an old pair of NEAR speakers to temporarily use for video.  When I buy a set of speakers for audio the KEF's will go back to the video room and be reunited with my 15" Klipsch subwoofer.  To sum up, what's your primary use for the speakers and how room filling do you like the bass?

@roxy54 Can you provide a universally accepted definition of an audiophile? You're probably right to assume I'm not that. I am, however, annoyed by your response and kindly ask for you to troll your superiority complex to other boards.
dtximages,
You were annoyed by my response? Well right back at you. I was annoyed by your silly comment that you thought they sounded great until you found out why.
I stand by my comment. My audiophile comment was really meant as a joke because so many audiophiles are concerned not only with the end, but the means. Lighten up.   

@roxy54 to maybe change the way I said what I said.. I thought the bass was phenomenal until I found out he boosted the knob way up.. It left me wondering how much "help" the speaker will need in the low end.  From the best I could tell in his bad room they sounded great, or what I knew could be great. Had I had hours to play with them, perhaps I could have figured out something was amiss or not quite right but I just remember thinking "danggg these things go low and sound big".

I understand now. It's all good.

I purchased my KEF107s new in 1986 for $3100. Theses are 1st generation speakers. My Kube stopped working around 2005 and I have been using the speakers without the KUBE since that time.

I have replaced the woofers 3Xs over this 35 year period. I have an extra set of tweeters and mids in storage also.

I am still very happy with this speaker. The imaging and soundstaging are remarkable. They can still resolve the details in most well recorded music. 

The bass is still impressive without the KUBE. The speaker only outputs what is in the rcording. If a recording is bass heavy it reproduces it. if the recording is lacking bass notes, you will not hear those notes. The speaker is still very accurate.

The Kube allowed:

1. Contour:control over frequencies under 160hz +/-3db.

2. Extension: cut off lower frequencies at 50, 35, 25, 18Hz.

3. Q-Factor: Damping, tightness of the bass

I do miss the ability to have more control over the bass on certain recordings. The bass does not extend down to 20HZ without the KUBE. 

I can say that I'm still in Love with the speaker to this day after 35 years. I will replace them at some point, as they are not on par with some of the better current speakers that are in my budget.

I purchased an Earthquake SuperNova MKV 15" subwoofer to supplement the frequency range below 32Hz.

I am using Odyssey Kismet ++ mono blocks for amplification, Emotiva XSP-1 Pre-Amp, Teac NT-503 DAC, Signal Cable, Groneberg cables, DELL  I7 laptop running Jriver.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

Thank You

 

 

using eq is the only solution for you now, but kef had the bass peak at 5hz rolling off so it was flat by 40 hz in order to avoid the mid bass hump every other manufacturer does to get deep bass. the kube also smoothed out some defeciency around 3khz.  I had the 107/2 and the 105/3 that might be interchangable...but.

I took posession of the speakers and wow these are realllllyyyy good even without the KUBE.  I did some more digging and there are some people who claim they can't really tell a difference with/wihtout the KUBE.  I do understand why some people use these without the KUBE and never look back. 

Let me ask you this...  Can I acheive the same effect using a MiniDSP with Dirac as the KUBE?  It's all about proper equilization right?  There's no other magic sauce this KUBE does to bring the speaker to the next level is there?