Khokugo I have Sonus Faber Extremas and use two Classe Audio 400's. The classe is a great match. Try it. You wont be dissapointed. |
This thread may be like feeding sharks, but Trelja is right. What other brand name invokes this kind of spirited debate? (well, except Bose). And why? What's unique about Krell? It seems to me that's worth talking about. No? Why doesn't ARC, Classe', Levinson, SF, CJ, Jadis, Bryston etc. etc. etc. draw this kind of fire? Craig |
Hi Tswhitsel; Other than to complain about a well respected Audiogon member, what is the point of YOUR post? IMO, Trelja is one of the most knowledgeable and respected regular posters on Audiogon. I especially value his opinions and advice on tubes and tube equipment. He has established an excellent reputation for civil, intelligent posts, and if he posts often, the rest of us are better off for it; not to mention that it's his business. I don't see your name or opinions much (at all?) and so have no basis for judging your credibility. Because I post fairly often too, I suppose you've judged(?) me-- and maybe some others, as you have Trelja. Well IMO, If I'm placed in a class with Trelja, I'll be in good company. Cheers. Craig |
Gentlemen, as a user of Krell equipment with great success for almost ten years I can attest that Krell equipment is ruthless at revealing any weakness in your chain of equipment. It ALL starts with a good front end, whether digital or analog. If your front end isn't in the same caliber as a Krell, the Krell will reveal it's shortcomings either in brightness, tonal imbalance, etc... next is your cabling. I am always amazed at those who say there is no difference between cable. That statement may be true if you have a mediocre CD player and a Kenwood amp or even an Adcom amp for that matter. When you move up the chain of quality, you will notice difference between cabling and equipment. After the front end and cabling, the preamp is the next most important component, maybe even more than the amp, then the amp. A superb front end, cables, preamp and amp can make average speakers shine, but rarely will great speakers make average electronics shine. So here's the bottom line! Don't even think of a Krell or any other top notch amp until you have the rest of the chain close in quality. You will only be disappointed. And for those of you who think Krell is bright, my neighbor reviews for Absolute Sound and I brought my Krell FPB-600C to his dedicated listening room with tube traps, dedicated 20amp lines, perfect dimensions, etc... and we compare my amp to his Manley mono tube amps connected to his Thiel 7.2's driven by the Wadia 860 digital front end and quite frankly the Krell was equally as delicate and musical as the tubes, but with superior low end control and detail. Even my neighbor and his four friends admitted they could live with the Krell amp. By the way, if you're keeping notes, all the cabling was Transparent Reference. I recently upgraded to the Krell 650mc's and they blow away the 600. |
got to say..... the amps do have balls.....i have owned quite a # of others...but none of the others will do...>>>BUT, may the good lord help you if they ever break down.the turn around time is 6 weeks....????hmmm...but when they work they do so with power and authority no other.......well for those that want amps that keep on kicking...and never break down>>>>>>try bryston |
Trelja...really what is the point in threads like this? You have clearly stated that you have moved on in other directions and even state that you don't even think about Krell anymore. This thread seems a bit of a contradiction as you obviously do. If you've found what you like, and it's not Krell, why would you care what others think. Even if you did own and love Krell would it make you feel insecure or uncertain in your choice if others were bashing it? Trelja, I see your name so much on Audiogon threads voicing opinions (or seeking them) that I honestly wonder when you find the time to listen! |
Sorry to jump in. I was always wondering exact same question. I have just got Sonus Faber Signum, and someone told me that SF designer's reference amo is Krell (sorry if wrong). Do any of you have direct experience of Krell/SF combination? |
Krell did come from the Forbidden Planet.... I own a Krell KSA200S and love it. I've heard a lot of other amps that sound as good but it depended on the speakers that were matched to them. Krell's have one technical specification (current non-limiting) that sets them appart from most other high quality amps. I own Thiel 3.6s and they suck the live out of many amps (almost all tube amps) with their nominal 3 ohm load. So for soom audiophiles with speakers that demand high current capability Krell is an obvious choice. Other speakers may present different challanges and different amp solutions. |
Good point. I don't think that ANYONE would LIKE to match bright electronics with dark electronics and "hope for the best". Unfortunately, some people can't afford to just dump everything all at once and replace the offending components. For them, it is a matter of working with what you have and gradually climbing the ladder. After all, that is what keeps places like this, Audioshopper, Audioweb, AudioReview, etc... thriving with used items. Doing something like that is merely a stepping stone to what people are trying to achieve further down the road as their budget allows. As to putting something into your system that doesn't sound "good", i think that we have all done that at one point in time. Not only do our tastes change (for the better, i hope), but our levels of experience and what to listen / look for advance with our exposure to different gear and system combinations. Can you actually say that the first "Hi-End" or "Hi-Fi" that you assembled actually sounded good and gave you everything that you want by your standards today ? Probably not. You PROBABLY worked up to that level. Just like you, others are still climbing that ladder, hoping to find "audio nirvana" once they get to the top. Only problem is that there is no top and the ladder never ends : ) Sean > |
I know this off the original proposed thread. I always thought tweeks were to articulate chracterisics not contradict them. I would think it is better to match equipment with like desings and goals and I never put a piece in my system that didnt sound good on its own. When you mix a harsh peice and a refined piece dont you get the worst of both worlds? You are contradicting what each piece was designed to do well. I am very intersted in hearing your comment on this. I admit I have never heard Krell and I am very open to opinion. |
I very much agree with the opinions of Sean in this thread. System SYNERGY is the overriding factor in whether a component sounds good in your system. Or not. There is more than one way to skin a cat... The purpose of this thread, to answer those who have raised the issue, is to get this whole thing out in the open. The ultimate goal is not to provide more cannon fodder, but to hopefully bring us all(specifically, the Krell lovers and haters) to some sort of place where we can coexist(we don't have to agree). Maybe we can agree that Krell can be bad in some sytems, and good in others. And to discuss this whole phenomena of the emotions the mere mention of the name "Krell" brings out. In a civilized, ADULT manner. One devoid of anger, hostility, profanity, and cheap shots. I could have easily slid my comments into that other thread. But, I think a clean sheet of paper is a good place to start. One with none of the blood stains of the other. So, my question. Why is there so much anger related to this topic? We don't see this kind of warfare in the tube vs. solid state argument, and that sure should be worse than this debate. |
Speaking of buzz words: Where is Sluggo? Did he go underground? |
Megasam: I thought the term Krell preceeded the Forbidden Planet. Krell was the name of a planet with unlimited power in a very early sci-fi serial, perhaps Buck Rogers??? Other old timers may want to help here!! I currently own three Krell products (mono blocks and a three chassis preamp from the late '80's and the KBX cross-over from the early '90s.) I have nothing but high regard for their build quality and service. While I cannot comment on the sound quality of current models vis-a-vis their competition, it has been my experience that audiophiles who are used to the sound of other top push-pull solid state (Levinson as an example) often find the sound of Krell to be dull by comparison. For me, however, they were consistently more natural than the more "technicolor" competitors--more music than hi-fi or to use an old photography analogy, Krell was Agfa to the other solid state's Kodachrome. Tubes, of course, are an entirely different matter. I agree with the sentiment that it is popular to tear down whoever is successful. When visiting London in the late '80s I was surprised to find the same attitude toward B&W speakers in their homeland as we yanks had for the likes of JBL. (I had always thought that B&W made a pretty fine dynamic speaker). Cheers, |
Corn F.B. is right this is like dumping a bucket of chum in shark infested waters.....bloodlust. I have never heard/owned a Krell but will make the observation that the current Stereophile recommended list has 3 Krell amps rated class A, and it seems there is always Krell amps rated class A, so many "professional reviewers" think highly of them. BTW did the president of Krell see the 1950s classsic sci-fi movie "forbidden planet" where the alien master race that left the advanced tech and then died were the "krell" |
While i agree that the word "Krell" tends to bring about some of the most polarized responses from those involved in audio, there are many other subjects that get people excited. Just mention the terms "vinyl", "digital", "tube", "solid state", etc.. and you can get very similar reactions and just as divided responses. Anyone that has a strong interest in a specific hobby / subject will obviously have opinions to voice depending on their personal tastes and experiences. Having made the above "disclaimer", it's pretty obvious that some of us here have very different tastes and systems that represent those values. I have always been of the opinion that EVERY piece of gear may require MASS manipulation of one's system to really be able to obtain the best results. This includes Krell, Pass, tubes, SS, vinyl, digital, etc... Many people dial their system into a specific sound and then are unhappy when they alter it's performance via a new / different component. They think that the new piece is inferior while it is really just "different". They forget about all the past effort that had put into their system fine tuning it to the point that they were at just before the change. Those that simply swap gear without taking the time or effort to "fine tune" the rest of the components (cables ARE components) will NEVER know what that piece is truly capable of. Those that don't have the capabilities to substitute component for component (multiple times) to find a good blend in their system at the drop of a hat may have never experienced the differences that doing something like this can demonstrate. Even with all of the effort involved in doing this, some gear will just not blend with other specific components or not deliver the type of sound / performance that someone may be looking for. That is why system synergy is so very important and the reason why some systems are simply "decent" (yet very expensive) while others sound very good (yet are "reasonable" in price). It doesn't take much to produce a product that "makes sound come out of it". Case in point: Fisher Price makes a toy called a "Close-N-Play". It takes a LOT of effort and trial and error to build a SYSTEM that is both "accurate" AND "musical". While ONE component CAN make the difference between sounding good / bad, much of this may just be a lack of synergy in the system to begin with. Don't blame it all on "Krell". Or "Pass". Or "tubes". The "system" as a whole was simply lacking. I think you get the idea. Sean > |
what is the point of this thread, trelja? do you really think it will generate more light than heat? seems to me, you're simply baiting the horde. |
Boy David99: The next worse mistake that you can make in Hi-fi (other than buying a Krell) is to own a Pass amp. Dumping it is the way to go (and we are talking in the trash here), trust me on this... Is this the type of post that you are referring to, Trelja? The ones that are just chalked full (not) of helpful advice. I am sorry that I fell asleep for last nights volley, I just read it this morning. |
I had a Krell amp and was totally pleased with the build quality and their service. I thought the amp had blown up and sent it in to the factory, come to find out it actually had been struck by lightning and they fixed it at no cost to me. After that, the amp never sounded better. Anyone bashing Krell doesn't really understand the hobby or obsession they are involved in and need to figure out that all gear has it's own distinct sound. If you don't like it don't buy it, but definitely don't the company because many people do like it. I now have ARC electronics and am totally satified. |
I agree! As I progress up the audio ladder I find even though it sounds better I run into problems I didnt expect.Fine tuning is something that has to be done with any worth wild stereo.Should I just "dump" something and start over? I have more dedication and will power then that.My stereo has developed into a very sensitive and neutral beast.I wasnt ready for that when I got my Aleph-3.I do have some upper-mid brightness but will I 'dump" the 3?? Nope,I'll just work on it till its right.Does the 3 "suck" cause of that?? |
You HIT it on the nail Trelja! The word Krell brings lot of ' Sour grapes cases'. Mainly because there brand of neutralitiy is unlike any in Hi-end. The fact that they need careful matching of front and back components frustrates most. Most don't even know it. I know it and have auditioned both good and great set-ups( I don't own one!). Once you are at top, every one wants to see you fall. |
I think envy, same type of people like to knock corvetts, bosses, and people who excelled at what they do. I am 53 and have used krell for awhile now and find their products and service first class, some people may like other products more, there is a lot to choose from, but the ones who just love to knock krell seem to have a inferiority complex, discussing pro and cons of audio equipment is one thing, but to vent your frustrations on a paticular company or product is more of a mental problem. |
