Are the new Krell 125 l Xd have a bass slam like the old Krell?
Krell XD gear in the House Initial Impressions
For those who were following a post we started a few weeks ago about considering bringing in Krell gear here is our follow up post after we just received the display gear.
We had 0 interest in adding Krell to our product portfolio before attending the Capitol Audio Fest we almost missed the room it was on the First floor in the back and it was VPI's room and we are not VPI dealers so it was almost a fluke that we even poked in. The huge Wilson Alex's were beckoning us in, so we decided to take a brief listen.
The sound in this room was mesmerizing, someone played Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side and there in three dimensions was Lou Reed and the three back up vocalisits, the sound was smooth, engaging, transparent, and has a sense of presence that made you take notice.
So we started looking at the setup, VPI table $15k, Soundsmith cart $8k $110k Wilson speakers, lot of expensive Nordost Vallahalla or Odin but what was driving this insanely good sounding rig there in the bottom of the rack were two Krell 300XD amplifiers and a Krell preamp.
Here was the best sound at this entire show, and the electronics were a fraction of the price of all of the other reference setups which were $80k monoblocs amplifers, $40k reference preamps and other such expensive gear.
So we figured we would give the Krell a try part of the reason was logistics, powering our Paradigm Persona 9H is a $50k set of the phenominal T+A electronics from Germany, a $19.5K 300 Watt power amplifier, a $16.5 preamplifier and an optional outboard power supply at $13.5.
We have no issue with this gear it is incredible, however, we didn't have in this room a set or electronics which we thought would really give the T+A stuff a run for its money and yet be more affordable, so the Krell 300XD amp at $10,500 plus their Illusion 2 preamp/dac at $8k we thought would bring the price of doing a top notch system with the Personas down a bit in price and perhaps be a nice addition to our other electronics lines of T+A and Naim for top of the line solid state gear.
We hooked up the new Krell gear yesterday and even after only 24 hours of break in the sonic signature is very similar to what we heard at the Capital Audio Fest.
The new Krell gear was liquid in the midrange, with nylon strings having the right type of roundness that makes acoustic guitar sound so right, tight well defined midbass, excellent rhythmic control, good top end extension with a slighly soft warm top end, and a big dimensional soundstage.
One of our questions is are there anyone on the boards who has this combo in particular the 300XD power amplifier and the illusion 2 preamp/dac we are currious to the affects of break in and how they improve.
The sound after only 24 hours of initial plug in and break in the gear is allready sounding ridiculous good how much better does it get and in what ways?
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ new Krell dealers
We had 0 interest in adding Krell to our product portfolio before attending the Capitol Audio Fest we almost missed the room it was on the First floor in the back and it was VPI's room and we are not VPI dealers so it was almost a fluke that we even poked in. The huge Wilson Alex's were beckoning us in, so we decided to take a brief listen.
The sound in this room was mesmerizing, someone played Lou Reed's Walk on the Wild Side and there in three dimensions was Lou Reed and the three back up vocalisits, the sound was smooth, engaging, transparent, and has a sense of presence that made you take notice.
So we started looking at the setup, VPI table $15k, Soundsmith cart $8k $110k Wilson speakers, lot of expensive Nordost Vallahalla or Odin but what was driving this insanely good sounding rig there in the bottom of the rack were two Krell 300XD amplifiers and a Krell preamp.
Here was the best sound at this entire show, and the electronics were a fraction of the price of all of the other reference setups which were $80k monoblocs amplifers, $40k reference preamps and other such expensive gear.
So we figured we would give the Krell a try part of the reason was logistics, powering our Paradigm Persona 9H is a $50k set of the phenominal T+A electronics from Germany, a $19.5K 300 Watt power amplifier, a $16.5 preamplifier and an optional outboard power supply at $13.5.
We have no issue with this gear it is incredible, however, we didn't have in this room a set or electronics which we thought would really give the T+A stuff a run for its money and yet be more affordable, so the Krell 300XD amp at $10,500 plus their Illusion 2 preamp/dac at $8k we thought would bring the price of doing a top notch system with the Personas down a bit in price and perhaps be a nice addition to our other electronics lines of T+A and Naim for top of the line solid state gear.
We hooked up the new Krell gear yesterday and even after only 24 hours of break in the sonic signature is very similar to what we heard at the Capital Audio Fest.
The new Krell gear was liquid in the midrange, with nylon strings having the right type of roundness that makes acoustic guitar sound so right, tight well defined midbass, excellent rhythmic control, good top end extension with a slighly soft warm top end, and a big dimensional soundstage.
One of our questions is are there anyone on the boards who has this combo in particular the 300XD power amplifier and the illusion 2 preamp/dac we are currious to the affects of break in and how they improve.
The sound after only 24 hours of initial plug in and break in the gear is allready sounding ridiculous good how much better does it get and in what ways?
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ new Krell dealers
104 responses Add your response
Great stuff, Audiotroy! I really like the new Krell amps. They are my new favorites. I like the internal webpage feature too. Has anyone tried muting the channels on the multi-channel amps to see if that improves sound? I once owned a California Audio Labs MCA the could mute channels. The stereo sound greatly improved when that was done. |
Jeff sometimes change is unsettling. Over the years we have sold many Krell amplifiers, the new XD gear are the most musical Krell amplifiers ever built. The reality is that Dan leaving Krell had really very little to do in terms of their engineering, for the last 20 years Dave Goodman, has been their cheif engineer the XD circuit and Ibias came from him, as well as most of their designs. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
Krell stuff still sounds amazing!!! XD is the real deal!! Now don't know if it is as good as a FPB 400CX or a KSA 80. Look around though a lot of manufacturers that have had their designer leave(Krell, Mark levinson) or a change in design philosophy( Jeff Rowland) aren't building as good as sounding stuff as their old designs but the gear is still very very good. Those old amps now have burned out caps, resistors, rectifier, boards etc. Nothing short of rebuilding those old amps can bring them back. Let em die. Time to move forward!!! Jeff's class D stuff sounding better and better. Krell coming back strong. Mark Levinson? Wouldn't you love to have that Samsung money for Research and development!! |
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Thanks Dave! PZC's are a lot of fun! I've been looking for a cool place to put a Tunable Room in close to the Vegas Strip. When I do you and Steve might want to make a road trip. Pretty trippy hearing the full tunable system. I had one setup here (full of PZCs) but it was too far from the airport. Dan and Krell were such a big part of the "Golden Ear" age of audio it's nice to see both of them getting mentioned again. Once upon a time there wasn't a week go by when I didn't hear from a Krell system owner or reviewer somewhere in the world wanting my help tuning it in. Tell Steve I said hello! mg |
@michaelgreenaudio Great post and definitely a perspective to consider. I never knew the old Krell, but I do like the new Krell. I’ve been through many 7 channel amps, and this Theater 7 is my favorite (and it's not even the XD version). I also don’t mind the Dealers posting here. It’s actually nice to still have some dealers around. By the way, my friend Steve here in Phoenix has a room with your pressure zone controllers. It’s absolutely amazing what those do for the sonics and soundstage in that room - much better to me than typical acoustic treatments I’ve heard in the past - the music sounds so alive and so well placed. Honestly, if I had a dedicated room, I’d be hitting you up for a setup. Anyway, back to Krell. Again, if anyone gets the upgrade for a Theater 7, I’d be very curious to hear about it. Dave |
Hello! About three weeks ago, my Krell KAV 400xi was sent to Krell for repair as one of the channels was producing quite a bit of static. When Krell diagnosed the unit, they said it was DOA and beyond repair, the unit was more than 15 years old? Anyway, Krell's service was great, they offered me a Vanguard for half the retail price! I was told they just needed to perform a burn-in and build a remote (the remote reminds me more of a metal brick)! Anyway, regarding burn-in, I have not noticed anything noteworthy after running it non-stop for about two weeks now. Additionally, I no longer need to wait an hour for the amp to warm up, it seems to give you it's best from the moment you power it on. I can tell you after owning 2 entry level Krell integrated amps now, this Vanguard sounds fantastic! Though not noted, if you do some digging, the Vanguard has the ibias feature and does not run hot at all compared to my now dead KAV. The unit does have two fans that are not audible. I would like to suggest you offer the Vanguard series entry level Krell's due to their excellent sound quality, (class A) plus it's great looks and build quality (made in the USA). The price may bring in additional customers and offer a path to upgrade into the higher end Krell line over time. grm |
Yep, I thought the readership numbers would be off the charts, so was surprised. Just a couple of my personal thoughts. Keep in mind I see HEA as taking a major turn at the moment. 1. People have mentioned the newer Krell look. I think Krell a couple of times got lost in the looks department and to me at times looked like products that did not spell sound performance but more a designer looking for a newer look not finding it. This latest style says "Krell" much like the very early units that Dan became so famous for promoting. Dan’s Krell had that eras look to it, as well I see todays Krell as looking like it should for todays world. 2. (kind of still in the looks department) Today’s Krell look I believe allows for the brand to go further down the money scale as the market turns to less expensive products, still keeping a sense of class. The days of expensive HEA components are declining rapidly. People will debate this till the market dries up completely, but I don’t think Krell needs to get booted to the door as many others are and will. I believe when the time comes for Krell to be in on the Class D amp movement (for example) we could easily see them coming out with a reasonably price classy product in the $2500.00-$4500.00 range and be taken seriously. The big question right now being asked is where is HEA going to be after this generation of big spenders is gone. There are a few brands that are going to make it into the next era of exotic lifestyle audio gear, but I seriously doubt the big over built products stand a chance of survival, the way they are now at least. Will there be a HEA revival? Yes, I believe so, but it will almost go back to where we were before the price explosion and major size happened. Not sure the name HEA will be around but Exotic Audio Components will certainly be here. Adjustability will come back into the picture along with a more practical user application. I’m sure Krell is looking at this next step, as well all should. So I for one am very interested in seeing how Krell re-enters the market not so much as a "needed to rebrand itself" or "restore their credibility", but more as one of the names that gave us modern High End Audio to begin with and using that recognition to help move us to the next logical steps in this hobby and lifestyle. There will always be an Audiophile club. It will not look the same, and it will not demand the outrageous price tags, but it will be better now that we have all gone through our growing pains together. Innovation is now the name of the game and will soon replace "how much can you spend". I think it’s good having Dave & Troy here realizing that we are all taking a bite of this hobby. For one it shows us in real time where the HEA store is going and a part of how we together get there. In closing, it is nice to see the name Krell back in the dating pool again. I would love to see Dan in an ad with the gang and who knows. Dan is family and so I understand the feelings being expressed. Maybe? you never know maybe?..... Good Luck Dave & Troy and Good Luck to those who see things differently. Regardless, at the end of the day we all get to go into our own private concert halls to enjoy the greatest happening ever known to man (listener) kind. mg |
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Mental everyone has a different style, sorry if ours seems long winded we go into detail other than, gee new Krell sounds good, company back go check it out! If I was a consumer and hey we are consumers as well, considering we don't get the gear for free and have to buy it, I would want to know more such as what have you compared it too, how is the sound different, how is the company different etc. As per new Krell vs old read the tone review, these new Krell products sound very different than the old, less stream roller bass, more midrange richness more tonal color accross the board, less heat and smaller more managable sized products even the soundstage is wider they sound more like Pass without the high heat. Read Jeff Dorgays comments on comparing Krell XD vs non XD and even vs classic Krell models: http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/ Fortunately, Schofield made my job easy. He sent me an old version along with the new amp. While it’s great to rely on “sonic memory,” nothing gets the job done like having them both side by side to compare. So using the new D-01 DAC/streamer from Esoteric ($20,000) in for review that I’ve become very familiar with, Nagra’ s Classic preamplifier ($17,000) and a pair of GamuT Zodiac speakers ($149,000/pair), all cabled up with Cardas Clear cable, the comparison was a relatively easy task. Initially, there’s no comparison between the two current models – the jump in resolution and musicality is massive. It’s like they are channeling the sound that made Krell famous, while incorporating the changes in technology that have come to be over the last 35 years. The raw emotion that generated so much excitement over this brand in the 80s is back in spades, yet without losing that magic, there is more low level detail, and more refinement. This is a tough combination to master, yet Krell has. It’s like taking a car with a great paint job, wet sanding it with 2500 grit sandpaper and then buffing to a higher luster than you thought possible – yet there you are. We’ll have a full review of the Duo 175XD before the end of this year, but for now, consider this more of a comparison between new and old versions to let you know what’s new. The folks at Krell are calling this “The New Sound of Krell,” but I submit that they’ve just returned to what made them great in the first place, bringing it up to date with the best advances in audio technology that have come our way in the last few decades. I’d say they’ve found their way back Mental without knowing your current system there is no way of us knowing if the new Krell gear would work for you but after owning Krell 450 MCX, a Krell KRC HR, and a KSA 250 we know what classic Krell gear sounds like the new stuff is way better. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
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Micheal, we think the reason is that people kind of written off the brand based on some of the negative issues involving the hostile take over and rousting of Dan and Rhondi in the recent past, then then there was the radical new look and new Ibias designs, and now finally with the tweeked up XD version these productsare really sounding fantastic with critics and listeners alike confirming that the products are sounding much more involving that the previous versions. Now with Walter and Rhondi is the company comming back to prominance and regaining stability with some very exciting new products on the drawing board. Played with your racks when I worked at SBS very innovative products you were making at the time. Thank you ZZ, Dznutz and everyone who has responded favoribly the only way any of us learn about new brands and how they perform and compare are threads like this. As per the new Krell gear the K300i is sounding fantastic hooked up the Lumin T2, and the sound of course is way better as that is a $4,500.00 streamer but the sound of the amp is still showing through and that is a very good and highly competitive integrated amp for $7k. Next week will be the full evalaution of the Illusion 2 with the 300XD with a better dac then the Illusion 2’s built in one. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
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I've been reading this thread with interest from the start. After 17 days I'm a little in shock that there has been only 2400 views. With the name "Krell" starting off this thread I was expecting much more in the way of posts and readers. I was honestly thinking that we would be hearing of numbers of orders by now. My question is, are there other forums going Krell crazy and Agon is slow on the uptake or is this the basic response so far over all? mg |
@audiotroy If you re-read my post, it was two folks that I mentioned. Both folks are associated with Krell in one way or another, so I'm thinking there should be some validity. Again, I qualified that with - "...this was specific to my Theater 7" - so, it's possible that there's more of a difference with other Krell products - and with this in mind, I don't think it necessarily flies in the face of what someone else said. This is why I would be especially interested if someone upgraded a Theater 7 and could provide feedback. Dave |
Pokey we just got in the Lumin T2 and are breaking that in with the K300i and yes it does show what a far superior dac/streamer can do. The new Lumin T2 is really unbelievable one of the best sounding dac/streamers for under $5k it does sound a bit like what you get out of the $14k Lumin X1. Will say that the built in dac board for $1k should be considered as being way better than what you would get out of normal outboard $1k dac. The increase in tonal color and image density are very noticable. We will have a very busy break in period lately just got the NAD M10, Rega Brio R, Peachtree Deco 125 sky all of these pieces are in our "Lab" Room this is the room with 54 components from starter to reference and nine pairs of floorstanders and Five pairs of bookshelf speakers. We have not yet played any of our higher end dac's yet with the Illusion 2 and the 300XD the combo even with the $1k built in dac board sounds so good, but alas it will be worth trying the Aqua Hifi Lascala with the Krell as well as the T+A PDP 3000. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
thezaks your impression from the one person fly in the face of other posters who have been very impressed by the increase in musicality with the XD mods. If you reference the Tone review Jeff Dourgay was very cognizant of how much better and different the XD version of the same amplifier was. http://www.tonepublications.com/whats-new-homepage/krells-new-ibias-duo-175xd/ We have never heard the older non XD versions however, the sound that we are experiencing in our shop with XD series products does show a very tube like presentation which we never heard out of the older Krell products. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I have a Theater 7, which is supposed to sound better than the Chorus amps, even though it is less wattage. However, it's supposed to have close to as much current as the Chorus line. Anyway, it sounds really good, and I've had a lot of 7 channel amps come through my system. I'm no longer looking for 7 channel amps, I'm just considering the XD upgrade now. I'll be curious to hear from folks who get this upgrade. Dave |
Thanks Joe, one of the reasons we write on these forums is to give people good advice, if we can or to draw attention to some new and exciting products. The 300XD and the Illusion 2 with dac board have been burning in for over a week know and they sound fantastic. For $18k you get a powerfull 300 watt monster amplifier and a very good preamp with a very listenable dac board. We have been listening exclusively through the built in dac later on the weekend we will play the much more expensive digital front end through the Krell to get a better idea of the electronics true capabilities. One of the nice things is that the digital board gives people a starter way of getting a system up and runnning just add a streamer and you got tunes. The electronics have a very organic quality that remind us a lot of tube gear, super smooth, big soundstage, these electronics sound way more expensive then what they are priced at. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Krell dealers |
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Wow. Such vitriol and aggression. I really enjoy the posts from audiotroy. Some of us on the forums don’t live in America where there are vast amounts of dealers with multiple brands to sell and demo. Some of us from overseas have no chance or ability to hear some brands to demo. Thats the great thing about forums, whether it’s a dealer or a member one can gain some insight and experience on various products. Unfortuntely, there are just too many crusaders and righteous members on the Forum these days. I don’t really check into Audiogon anymore because of this negativity expressed to anyone who disagrees with someone else’s idea of “sound”. There’s far too much of it. I guess the days of respecting someone else’s opinion have been superseded to the “thin-skin” and insecurity of the minority’s. |
The K300i looks to be an interesting product, and possibly a nice value depending on street price. That said, different look than the XD stuff, and.... no fans. I'll be interested to see how long this XD stuff with the upgrade stays in the line-up, and when replaced if they continue to use fans in the line-up. |