Good call.....I had a similar situation and never regretted keeping my more power amps with high damping factor.
Legacy Audio AERIS: RMAF/listening impressions?
I made a trip to Legacy this past week to hear this speaker in a non-show environment which would also afford more time to listen and hear music that I took with me. I don't see alot in the way of RMAF postings here as yet and would like to hear people's impressions of this speaker as I thought it an amazing speaker with huge potential. I've started a section on my system thread for anyone that wants to add material or please put your thoughts and impressions here. Thanks!
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francisgr: your VTLs with all that power will have no issue driving the AERIS; all of Legacy speakers are easy loads to drive being highly efficient. I know guys who believe it or not have used low-wattage SET amps to drive Focus 20/20, etc...with great results but I would advocate something with a bit more horsepower for the reason audiotroy mentioned regarding dynamics and bass control. That stated, again, your VTLs will serve you very well in this regard as will others (Manley, Ayon, Wall Audio, etc...). Several of us have not just heard AERIS, we’ve owned them over varying to long periods of time. You are looking at a great speaker!!! Cobraman: Great to hear from you again! Hope all is well with you! FYI all, there is another thread which has come up regarding AERIS and amplification. Will be interesting to see the parallels... https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/legacy-aeris-and-amplification |
Hi francisgr .. My vtl amps where made back in the early to mid 90s by David Manley they are a custom version of the old MB 225 that use EL34 output tubes in ultra linear mode about 200 watts . Aeris plays really well with vtl amps. Even after three years of using this set up I am still very very happy.. Aeris is an amazing speaker . As a side note before Aeris I used these same amps to power a pair of Focus SE full range and never ran out of power and also sounded great Aeris has internal 500 watt amps for each woofer so your vtl amps will only need to power from about 80 Hz and up. level matching between the internal amps and the vtl amps are really a breeze using the Xilica DSP your MB 185 should work and sound great. |
We are a Legacy displaying dealer and I think we can help. We have heard the Aeris and can give you some guidance, we will be getting our display pair later in the year, currently we have Focus models on display. My boss, Dave knows your VTL MB 185 quite well, If you contact the store ask for Dave I am sure he can give you some good advice.. The MB 185 were terrific amps and other than the bigger models were a great sweet spot product from the golden age of VTL. They can easily power the Aeris, the Aeries are quite efficient all of Dudelestons designs have an easy impedance curves, the major difference is that many of their conventional speakers require a lot of current to control those large woofers. In the case of the Aeris and Focux XD the internal amplifier drives the woofers so now you have an easy non reactive load . |
Cobraman, I read all the thread despite this has more than 3 years. And all the Legacy Speakers posts it concerns to me, beacuse I will upg my speakers to Aeris. You said on one of your posts that you are amazedthe way your VTL amps drive your Aeris. Which ones are they? This is very important to me because I also have VTL monoblocks on my audio system (MB-185 series II) and I'm wondering how would it be driving upper ranges by 340W in tetrode mode. |
When I bought my Legacy 20/20s, then HDs, Victoria LEs, Silver Screen IIs then HDs, etc... I lived in Hartford CT but dealt with Music Direct in Chicago; they rep'ed Edge, Esoteric, Audioquest, Shunyata and Legacy at the time to working with them was better for me economically. When I moved to the Greenville SC the dealer network was reducing down in scope so I started to work directly with Legacy. The dealer I liked in Orange CT was a good source for Classe gear so I worked with them on the SSP-600 and CP-700 I wanted but MD helped me put together the rest of what I wanted as they offered those brands. |
I'll have to catch up with some listening to the latest Vandys. I'd love to hear them side by side as well. The AERIS in exotic finish weighs in around that price point; the Whisper is a bit more than that but please check with Legacy for official pricing. I've updated my system pics again and continue to be very happy with what I'm hearing... |
Like I said, the Legacy was my second choice, but to ME, I didn't like it as much as I like the Vandy at a similar or less price point. I won't do the DSP thing right now. I hated the last gen driver the Legacy used. I heard it set up at a dealer in a couple of their speakers and it made my ears bleed. The set up was the way the dealer wanted it be shown as they are trying to sell it. The new one sounded great, but that's just me I guess. I was always about cables just sending the music along with way ti's recorded and getting components that don't need taming. IT's just the way I was brought up in audio. I also was taught not to spend too much money on tweeks as I could probably guy the next step up and get more for my money. The thing that pushed the Vandy over the Legacy was how natural the Vandy presentation has become in their new speakers. I'm blown away at how great they do all music and how easy they are to drive overall. Again, not taking anything away from the NEW Legacy's, but I'm talking about them vs the Treo's.....The Whispers are 18k or so aren't they? You're into the Quattro or even Vandy 5A money and at that point, you've got one heck of a battle on your hands. I'd love to hear them side by side set up properly. That would be an interesting battle for sure. |
Legacy built me a version AERIS with a 6-way binding post terminal plate option. Not only does it give me the flexibility to move up to 4-channels and 6-channels of amplification in the future to externally power the bass and sub-bass portions of this speaker, it allowed me to externally jumper these sections "now" with SOTA 5-ribbon jumpers matching my existing speaker cables from David Elrod. The difference is NOT subtle at all. The result is so good, I get to hear what the 500 watt ICE amps are truly capable of (even with stock power cords) and frankly given how the bass and sub-bass now plummet and impact all parts of the anatomy and the house I may not ever go to the expense of additional amplification as it would be a vanity purchase only given what I now hearing! |
Aeris and Vandy 5ct are the best under 30k speakers I've heard and that's with various amps/cables. As for Stereo Shop, I've done business with Nic over the years, but mostly with his dad when he owned it. They are family with Gordon Gow of Tributaries and formerly of Mac. I've had various experiences there. Some good and some not so good. I know of some poor business practices with them, so I won't spend money there, plus I don't love B&W ;)....and Mac doesn't do it for me either. But that's just me. Glad you had a good experience though as that's what it's all about. The Audio Store in Newington on the Berlin Tpk is a great place to get stuff. I've done business with them over the years too and I like how they are. Good guys just trying to make a living. They have a nice blend of quality stuff and don't try to over sell you. I like Bernie there a lot. I still go all the way to NJ to do business with John at Audio Connection for so many reasons. He just LOVES the music and it comes out. That's when I have fun, when the owner comes in to listen WITH you and just keeps putting music on. Not selling product, as it sells itself. JMHO |
Cobraman: I definitely hear what you are saying. My personal opinion is that AERIS is a wake-up call to the high-end audio industry. I think properly staged and cabled, it will make a lot of higher-end ($$$) contenders sit up and take notice (and lose a lot of sleep which is overdue given their much higher prices!!!). Legacy's best work to date without a doubt; more is reported to be on the way as well... |
Zephyr...Hi yeah have been putting some hours on my Aeris and loving it. As great as Aeris midrange is (right out of the box) all I can say is it just keeps getting better. Had some audio friends over the other day and put some Johnny A. ON (A local Boston guy )and let my big VTL tube amps flex some muscle on Aeris midrange... never heard a Gibson Guitar sound so incredible...Is Aeris perfect no what is ? however when it comes to audio Aeris is the best purchase I have ever made. |
Ctsooner.. I have had the same experience over the years . I hate when someone is judging me on how I look or what I am driving hell I am in the Propane Gas Industry sometimes I cant get ride of the Propane smell lol... I live about one hour north of Hartford CT.. A few weeks ago I was in Hartford and I Stopped by The Stereo shop on Farmington Ave Having never been there before was not sure what to expect ended up having a great experience there I was told to make myself at home and try out anything I would like to.. Ended up talking with the salesman for a few hours by the time I was ready to leave I felt right at home if I was in the market for some McIntosh gear I would buy it there ...never been to Audio Connection but also sounds like a great place.. |
Ctsooner....i hear what you are saying and am one of those guys too when it comes to manufacturers that give the best customer service as well as build/sound quality in addition to quality audio dealers and loyalty to same. I've been to a few dealers in various cities and states that despite what one drives in, looks like, can really spend, etc...(or even sounds like if the initial contact is via phone) seem to treat their customers like we are not worth their time and if we don't go bonkers over their latest darling system or manufacturer choices, that we are simply kicking tires otherwise. I say stay strong and keep looking for the good guys wherever they may be, then support them without question from that point onward! Cobraman: Great to hear from you; hope you are enjoying the Aeris as well; let me know how you like them now that they must have a good amount of hours on them! |
Follw up. I spoke with John at Audio Connection yesterday and when I got off the phone, I had ordered the Music Hall 25.3 DAC and a high end balanced cable that costs much much more than the DAC itself since it will make THAT much difference. I've now spent around 4k since my last and only visit to the local shops. I trust John implicitly and I was a 'free agent' who would have spent that 4k plus locally if they had just asked some questions and followed up. I spent an afternoon in Florence MA at Spirit too (I've gotten many items here over the years and sent lot's of friends there for systems too), but the guy never made me feel totally comfortable. I think too many dealers treat people like they are tire kickers, when in fact many of us aren't. Stop judging the book by it's cover as I am disabled and I never dress up and don't always shave. If they watch me park the car, it's a BMW 5 series. I really can afford to purchase mid level high end equipment if I chose to. I now know why so many shops are having a hard time keeping the doors open. One good vender told me that it's too late for him to do anything else, so he just keeps the shop open and hopes to make a living. He was the dealer who told me I HAD to get an integrated that had HDMI or I wouldn't be able to use it in my 2.0 system without lip sync issues. I didn't want to purchase the NAD 3900 all in one digital integrated/DAC. I didn't love how it sounded and he only let me hear it with Paradigm Sig 2's. Funny as he had Focal's and that's what they let me hear the NAD stuff with at Spearit Audio and it sounded much better. They also had the NAD Dac, which I really liked and I realized that it had the HDMI option. I just didn't like the Focal's, lol. That's when I expanded my search to include Audio Connection. I had originally told everyone that my budget was 3k or so on speakers and about 3k for a DAC and integrated. John stayed in those parameters, however I asked to hear Vandy's as he was so excited about them. All of a sudden my budget went from 6k to me selling off all my audio gear to get the 6k Vandy Treo's, the Ayre AX-7, The Music Hall DAC and top of the line Audioquest cables. Funny how that worked out. I don't mean to drone on, but I really like this site and all of you posters. How many of you have gone down this same road in the past (or currently)? When I find a dealer I trust and respect I will do everything to steer business their way. I've always been THAT guy and this is no different. I get nothing in return, but have learned that when someone is bad the word gets out quickly, but when folks do things the right way, most folks forget to share. I'm sharing, lol. If you are looking for anything, you may want to hit up John as he has a ton of pre owned stuff too. I'm even letting him sell all my gear as I think folks would rather buy via credit card and from a real brick and mortar dealer where they have recourse if they don't like it. Hope others feel similarly. I've taken this thread all over the place, sorry, lol. |
the pair I heard didn't lack for tuneful and tight bass at all. Bass is so subjective. I hear folks talk about it all the time and let's face facts, for the most part the extra thousands we all spend 'upgrading' usually is all about the bass. I have posted that I like the Vandy's much better and it's due to their bass. They just get it. They are also a bit more coherent and all drivers meld better I feel. that takes NOTHING away from the Legacy's though. I do wish I had more time with them. What I really would like to hear is their 6k speakers vs the Treo's. I really was impressed by that mid/high unit and would love to see how they make it work with their less expensive speakers They are the only ones I have found musical in the way the Vandy's are. If I had heard the Legacy's when I originally called Audio Etc, I never would have driven down to NJ to meet John at Audio Connection listened to the Vandy's. It's ironic as I will now spend well over 10k to upgrade my complete system when the local guys could have had all my business if they had just answered a message I left them asking them their hours since they weren't open the couple of times I stopped by when they were supposed to be open. I was going to give them one more try after I finally got in to listen, but they didn't have the Hegel integrateds/DAC's as they were on order. I gave them all my contact info after a great conversation and they said they'd call me once the Hegel's came in. That was a long time ago and I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. I already got an Ayre integrated and am headed down next week to get a DAC from John along with new AQ cables. John has gone out of his way, while the local guys are just nice guys who obviously don't have any desire to earn my business. Sorry to drone on, but it pisses me off big time. The fortune really is in the follow up. |
TMS: That would have been about the time they were ready to go so I have no doubt it could have been them. CTSooner: Thank you.....agreed on the mid/high drivers; they are amazing. The bass and sub-bass drivers I know from the Focus SEs and once they break in after 350+ hours, they will be ready to unleash the bass I had for the past 2 1/2 years. Roxito: I cannot speak for tube amps not supported bass, etc....but I can tell you these drivers are capable of 'pits of hell' bass as a friend of mine used to call it. I'll keep everyone posted on how these mature but based on the first 2 days and throwing some great full range stuff at them already I can tell you I have sub-bass all the way up to sweet highs and mids here already! |
I visited the LA room at the California Audio show. I was at first drawn into their room by the really beautiful sound of a lovely song (i think it was Eva Cassidy / What a wonderful world) they were playing. So I sat and listened and really enjoyed it. Then i requested him to play a track from a CD that i had brought along.. Love's Divine (Seal). I was using this track as a reference for comparing rooms that impressed me initially. As this track unfolded, it became evident that the bass was fairly (disappointingly!) weak ... this was not being exposed by the track being played originally. I was stunned to see such huge drivers delivering such weak bass. Neither punch nor depth in the bass. If I recall correctly they were using tube amps... so it could very well have been that the amps were really the reason for the weak bass. |
Will do once i get the area re-organized and grab a new flashgun. The AMIT is very clean and "right" when it comes to how it renders each frequency. The midrange driver is another new star in the Legacy family; same comment for that. Tonal color and ambients are amazing right OOTB. The other thing which hit me hard right away is how the speaker energizes the entire room and the soundfield wrapped around me even though this is only 2-channel. Another key improvement is from the open baffle top-end of the speaker; the omni-directional radiating pattern does wonders for image depth, precision, etc.....overall, absolutely AMAZING first 2 days!!! |
That would have been about the time they were getting finished and ready for crating up. They are amazing to behold to say the least! For the proc, for now, I have set them at "Aeris_Normal" (P01) and will also try "Aeris_Studio" (P02, Legacy other room tune at their facility) and start to explore the XConsole software for MAC, grab a mic and get the processor hooked into my Ethernet/WiFi network. I am going to try to dial the bass levels and other things into my room but slowly as they already sound great here and have alot of time before break-in is achieved. This will give me quite a bit of time to get used to them, the processor and the determine exactly what changes are necessary (and avoid those that are not!) to get them fully matched to this room. |
Unfortunately I moved out of Manchester CT back in 2007 or you guys would be more than welcome to drive on over! I'm in the northwest corner of SC so if you are ever on your way down Route 85, let me know in advance and we can do some listening! I was never able to find that audio club when I lived in CT either; bit of a mystery to me at the time as well... I'm boxing up the Focus SEs today; they will definitely be missed! In all my listening opportunities for Aeris, I kept what I received from the SEs uppermost in my mind when giving feedback about how Aeris should represent itself in the bass and sub-bass frequency regions.... I am getting the new exotic finish, Sapelle Pommele cabinet with Cabernet stain and high-gloss finish with a Black Pearl front baffle. I saw a number of Aeris finishes in person over the last 10 months or so and this one stands out from all the rest. I am really looking forward to this and will let you guys know about the break-in cycle. I expect to find 275-350 being the first major point at which the speaker really comes out fully as with all my trials over the past few generations of speakers.... |
Very cool on your new speakers. You'll really enjoy them I'm sure. They have the Aeris on the Classe equipment. It sounded really great. I just hate the top end of the new Rotel stuff. Have you been to their new place in that factory? I made a post yesterday that didn't seem to get posted for some reason. I'm in Berlin, CT in the town houses on Silver Lake. Where in CT are the rest of you? I was told there is a club up here, but I never heard back from them. |
Zephyr congrads on your Aeris arriving please let us know what you think as they break in. I am having a blast with mine have about sixty hours on them now and starting to do some of my own programs with the DSP. What finish did you get? I also was sadden to se my focus SEs in black pearl leave but after setting up my Aeris I soon forgot all about them . Enjoy |
I remember the Focus 20/20 and HDs with the Rotels separates at AudioETC; I hope they moved up from the old Rotel 1000W monos as that would be the bad pairing I remember as well. They should grab the new Focus SE AMT and the AERIS and move them into the room with the high-end Classe monos :-) It's still a great shop and they took very good care of me back a few years ago however as you and others have said, they have to rethink their equipment pairing strategies. My AERIS pair are on an ESTES Long-Haul truck as we speak; they'll arrive in the depot tonight so I could have them on Tuesday morning at the latest if all goes as planned. I will be somewhat sorry to see my Focus SEs leave but it's been just short of 3 great years with them so I am looking forward to the AERIS arriving very much. I'll keep everyone posted on what I hear as I break them in.... |
Hey CT, I went thru the same motions with AudioEtc.when I was moving from the Focus HD to the SE. Although the SE's they had were demos' and old style, ie no AMT-sounded horrible thru the Rotel equipment- they should rethink demoing Legacy's with better equipment. It was a misunderstanding even being there because I was interested in moving up to the AMT SE and wasnt interested in the predicate piano black SE demo. Being a brick and mortar shop they had no room to make a decent trade in offer/SE list price reduction on my mint HD's so I gladly dealt with a dealer in CA. My only risk was buying them unheard, and that didnt bother me. My HD's were great in my system so my thought was the SE/AMT could only be better. It worked out well as he sold my HD's for me (ie trade in-great price) and gave me a great price on the SE's with free ship right from Legacy. It worked out well with WAF as I told her they were smaller speakers! DOH! The sculpted cabs are deceiving. However, Fed-Ex damaged one in shipping and Legacy made good, building me a brand new pair and used UPS Freight instead. The Aeris looks awesome and probably sounds just as, but way out of my $$ league. Gear upgrades are done as my first kid of three starts college next year. where in CT are you? I am in Meriden. |
Dont' think there's a driver on the bottom. The grill is on the side as it's an open design. Kind of like Dalquest and Vandersteen. It's a great speaker. I'd love to hear them vs the Vandy Quatro carbon that are about 6k less I think. I have heard both a fair amount but with different electronics in different rooms. I have loved the Vandy's with all Ayre gear. I heard the AERIS with Classe as I stated above. They have a similar sound, but the Vandy's just get it right. I loved the piano on heard on the Vandy's better than any speaker I've listened to. |
Thanks Dragon. Yes, my ears are sensitive to the high end. I like a relaxed natural sound. I have had proacs for years now, so staging and imaging are very important. When I heard the top line Vandy's, I got most of the staging and imaging, but it was much more musical. I just wanted to sit down and keep listening. Now that I have Ayre on my Proac Supertowers, I'm loving them. It's like a new speaker. I still want the Vandy's, but it really is amazing at how every change can make a huge difference. |
Depends on Taste and music and also depends on the room. The Whisper are one of the best images you can get. The mid range is very revealing the new High frequency driver is smooth and clear. It really depends on amplifier and cables on how well the mids and tweeter are tamed. Tried it with silver cables and the midrange was too forward, too revealing to the point of getting headaches and the top end energy was too sharp. Changed it to Copper and it was so much more relaxing the changes are so easily noticed on the whisper its very sensitive to cable changes and upstream electronics. Legacy recommends using a DSP processing to control the high frequency cut off points and delays. I tend to stay away from DSP to avoid the extra ADA process. I like it much better with out the DSP in my room which is heavily damped. |
They are in New Haven now. Great guys. They carry Hegel, but didn't have it in stock. It was the Aeris and top line Classe. It sounded really nice, but not in the Ayre Vandy league for my ears. Not even close when you listen carefully. I listened to the Vandy's for hours and never got tired. I liked the Legacy's, but hated last years HF driver unit. Hated it. Way too much energy on top. The new one sounds really nice, but I didn't feel it integrated perfectly with the bottom end. The Focus's were paired with Rotel separates and they were nasty. I couldn't listen as my ears were bleeding. I love NAD for that range I guess. Marantz too. HATED Rotel. I used to love it, but no more, wow. I've heard them on B&W's too and hated them. I heard the Diamond B7W there and they were ok. Nothing special, especially for the price. I think you can get way more for your money with a smooth top end and everything else a speaker should do. I think the Vandy Treo/quatro and 5's blow all the Legacy's out of the water for my ear. Ayre is the most tube like from the mid's up with controlled bass that I've heard in a solid state unit. Liking those AQ cables too. |
Ctsooner...if you are listening at AudioETC in Orange CT, I knew them well and bought some great Classe gear from them when I was living in central CT. They are a great shop; I am glad to hear they are still in business. What Classe gear was driving the Legacy's? For the FocusSEs without any correction (-2db high-end trim switch) or with the Aeris or Whisper without any contouring of the high-end with the processor, the Classe's very revealing high-end may have needed a bit of tweaking with those rooms and the new tweeters. Would like to know more.... |