Magico A3 price increases 50%+

You see the crossover like man woman relationship. Refine woman search for same in man. Unrefined woman sometime search for money and find it in baboon but stay because baboon make life easy. This like cheap crossover maybe work well in certain model so good enough match if you not good enough for complete package. You see me have full package- looks money smart and refinement. My whole package shine and the lady flock to me like good speaker understood by all.

Yes, some of today’s high performance high powered cars use brushless screw pumps.  They cost about $20 to make mated to a $15 controller.  Feel better?

I was working with some Ford engineers in the early 90's at their proving grounds.  Next door to us was the Mustang team.  They had a large stack of tires and I could hear their cars on the handling course, tires squealing almost constantly all day long for the entire week.  By the end of the week the stack of tires were used up.  They wore out a set of tires per car in a day on the handling course to determine the best set of tires for their Mustang.  Imagine how many customers make the effort to replace the tires on their Mustang with the factory originals.  Very few, I would guess.
Dismissing the low priced speakers, I imagine the higher end speaker builders carefully voice their speakers with various components while still trying to meet a price point.  I'm sure there is always room for improvement if one has the patience and time to either analyze the system or experiment with different components to find the optimized solution.   I have modified speakers, preamps, turntables in the past with better components with mixed results but usually for the better; but it is now my modified creation- not what the original designer built.
FYI- when you peek under the hood of your car, a fuel pump, for example costs $9 to make.  Same fuel pump build cost in a Ford or a Ferrari (just flow rate difference for engine demand)  Disappointed?

Let's bad rapp the world its fun.

achieving car spl levels in a home, particularly with good sq is a hell of a journey, time consuming and expensive, having said that, ymmv
as a former car audio guy i understand the desire, as pointed out, easiest quickest way is small room, treated, multiple subs, all nearfield, equalization

neither headphones nor transducers will achieve the desired effect
if neighbors are a concerns, forget all this and learn to love bass in its other forms

I was reading an old review about the dsp8000’s where JA asked Bob Steuart why they didn’t make the speaker time coherent and his reply was this xover topology was the one that sounded best. Could it be that simple with the A3?

Right. A billion years of evolution means nothing. Oreo cookie "bias", that's the ticket. World's biggest eye-roll.

stereo5  We are all brought up to love the taste of animal fat, precisely because of conditioning.  Yes, a part of this conditioning is our fatty diet, but many studies show that pricing affects the perception of quality, even when the items are reversed as a control.  Whether you prefer OREO or HYDROX, the company intentionally priced OREO to foment that perception.  You might not like OREO if it were the one that cost more. I felt cheated when my Mom bough HYDROX.  This feeling had to affect my perception.

@danvignau 


Oreo's taste MUCH better than Sunshine Hydrox.  My mother bought Hydrox because they were cheaper and they tasted like it.

     The Veblen effect is also called the OREO effect, because when the inventor of this cookie, Hydrox saw the efect on sales, the price was lowered.  To counter, OREO raised its price to make Hydrox seem less valuable.    Hydrox has no animal fat.  OREO uses lard and other animal fat, but because it costs more, People see OREO as better.     Many psychology experiments confirm this bias.  Jewelry pricing is the epitome of the use of this bias.
     Maybe the speakers will not actually sound better, but people will think they do. After all, how can a $10,000 speaker possibly sound as good as a $15,000 one?

@audioman58 

So @henry201 doesn't build or modify speakers, so that makes his opinion worthless? How arrogant of you. He has a valid point. I had a good friend who modified a perfectly nice sounding pair of Starsound Caravelles with every boutique part he could come up with. Completely ruined the sound of that speaker. Yes some speakers can be improved upon, but that's not the case every time. And you seem to think everything can be.

Sometimes it's best to buy a speaker that you love the sound of and not one that you really, really like, but hope to make better.

Unless you have spent years and 1,000s of hours listening 
And comparing parts quality then you speak out of blind ignorance 
Period ,I will waste no more time On guys that barely can figure out how to hook up a cable .decisions are based mainly on compromises on average rule of thumb $25%  or less goes into the complete build the rest overhead and markup.,  ,that is why for example you are not going to put $1k into the Xover parts ,maybe 
now you can figure out why the speaker can be far superior $$.

@audioman58

that the-speaker can be much better with a Xover upgrade

Not necessarily, see above vitussl101 case in point. I think that it’s an arrogant, misleading statement. I am sure that most, if not all designers spend a very long time deciding what goes into their products. There are many things to consider, and some parts “goodness” can be a liability. If one buys a speaker because he likes the way it sounds, one should let it be. The chances it can be improved are slim, and probably lower than the chances of degrading the overall sound.

Henry201 your garage builder -no comment ,  my point is 
having owned a Audio store and being involved personally 
with many  mods it  is just my opinion and knowledge base over 20 years  that the-speaker can be 
much better with a Xover upgrade ,nothing more . I am most certainly not stuck on Magico .I am currently involved with
a Marten upgrade that use exceptional Accuton drivers .
There are  many excellent Loudspeakers out there ,nothing more 
to be said.

@audioman58

for-they are hidden ,and MFG are always trying to save $$ they try to get respectable audio response without added expense

You don’t make much sense, Magico is not hiding these parts, obviously you know what they are, right? Garage speaker builders like to brag about that kinda of stuff, since XO parts are more or less the only one they can easily change. Let us know when you actually do the deed, good luck!

I have been building and modifying speakers as a hobby (well sort of) since the mid eighties.  One thing I have learned is not everything works like you think it might.  About a year ago I purchased a pair of the top of the line Mundorf supreme silver gold oil capacitors  to use in a tweeter circuit for a Dynaudio Esotar tweeter to replace some Hovland's thinking that they would be an upgrade, not to mention some of the negative articles on the Hovland caps issues; not wrapped tight which can cause them to (sing?).  Well it didn't work.  The soundstage if you will kind of collapsed compared to what I previously had.  After researching the issue, talking to various capacitor companies and designers, I realized that the problem had to do with a design issue in the Mundorf's.  A few things actually.  One designer from Sonic Caps that I left a message, called me back and sort of explained what was going on with my tweeter circuit and suggested putting the Hovland's back and told me quite frankly that his best products would be a lateral move.  I love that kind of honesty.  I still haven't made the change and am still thinking of putting something new in their just for the hell of it but you know ,I had better performance before I plunked down three hundred plus dollars on a pair of caps which turned out to be inferior.  An example of where spending more, got me less.  But then, if it ain't broke.  Anyone need a used pair of Caps?

I think the point that high end audio prices for some brands have been dramatically increasing vastly faster than inflation is a good one. It alienates people in the hobby. 

Henry 20 years of extensive Xover  parts comparison is  more extensive 
then most companies have been in business. The Xover is the ♥️ of all loudspeakers and the most most understood and overlooked .
for-they are hidden ,and MFG are always trying to save $$  they try to get 
respectable audio response without added expense ,even ,Magico flagship 
mundorf Supreme silver gold and oil ,good ,but not being near the best,  in resistors, or Capacitors especially at that price point. , even the A3,A5/ they use theLower quality resistors as well as cheaper mundorf ,capacitors the white ones are  much lower quality vs even their Supreme -Black capacitors and please remember they buy these at 50% off retail $1 resistors Huge profit , that’s why I use several 
Reference  Xover builds then when I find a great deal I buy it and save $1000s 
and sonicly at least 10% better sounding which is huge l this  is a fact !!

go to Tony Gees Humble homemade Hifi capacitor tests

Seriously? Some "Humble" Joe Shmoe runs a subjective test, on different speakers, with totally different setups, and that’s it?
Any objective, empirical proof to your/his claims?

With over 20 years upgrading Loudspeakers I can speak through experience .
The Xover is the ❤️ of all speakers ,Everything goes through it good or bad .
the parts in the A3,A5 are at best a C quality.
go to Tony Gees  Humble homemade Hifi  capacitor tests these white 
lower cost Mundorf Evo capacitors rated a 9 at best out of 15,their better quality are the Supreme ,
and they’re are far better then Mundorf out  there  ,especially when talking $30k and up .
my point is everything is very good about theA3,A5  But the Xover parts 
its like putting average tires on a Porsche ,because you can’t see it let’s go cheap
,that is why I said I will find a used pair  and  rebuild the Xover then it will be a far better sounding speaker for $1,000s less then new cost.

I also love mine, although I am upgrading to an A5 soon (even a better deal 😉). Funny how the OP whines about XO parts yet overlooks the actual value of these speakers (Pure Be tweeter, Aluminum enclosure, SOTA graphene woofers, with neodymium motor systems, etc.).

Thanks bigkidz.

Mike

@skyscraper - Parts Connexion in Canada is a easy place to start. Michael Percy, etc.

I agree that the better parts can make an improvement but better components make a much bigger difference.

In todays' world - all prices have gone up.  New Sensor also told me that they have raised their prices, etc.

Happy Listening.

Audioman58, where can you locate and purchase the better made parts you reference? I might know a dealer who could undertake the venture of swapping them out, and am curious how labor intensive or difficult that job might be? What would you think the outcome of upgrading those caps and resistors might be, and how noticeable? I’d appreciate your advice. Thanks.

I’m so glad I got my A3’s when the were below $10,000. Thanks for an informative post.

Mike

Gryphon pantheon period.  

Mundorf are far from the best capacitors they use double the plastic in their 
dielectric then Anyone which is unnatural have over 15 years experience with them, they are good but tipped up in frequency ,
the VAh audio Odam capacitors are noticeably better balanced and do everything a bit better, and none better resistor wise then Path Audio the best resistor I have used in Xover builds .
as far as no one forcing me to buy Magico ,the statement says it all.
if I got one used for a good price I would then rebuild the Xover with top 
quality parts.,  Today it’s hard to find a top speaker under $15 k  There is no 
speaker that is great in all areas under $25k IMO.
Alto Audio has been getting a lot of press and a very good product at around  $10k The Wilson Sabrina X is a great speaker ,That my brother may sell is another possibility  , some like pin point accuracy, some like more smooth refinement, as well as  as true accurate Bass flat to under 30 Hz not many can ,without a subwoofer at $20 k ,Many  Choices .

Get MAGICO M3s for better crossover parts.

The A series is entry level Magico, if you want better parts go up the line. Compared to the biggest names in loudspeakers it appears magico follows the same business model 

which are noticeably better then even in their best speakers ,which use Mundorf supreme silver gold oil capacitors

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm a big Mundorf fan
The M SESGO are best bang for the buch, IMHO
Also on resitors, I'm a big fan of Takman Rey metal. 
But again, upgarding caps  ina  xover is only going to give up **minimal nuances**, Its not going to give you a  super speaker. 
Start witha  speaker you REALLY LOVE, then make upgrades in caps. 
I dumped the Seas Millennium tweeter fora  DavidLouis wide band after spending $$$$ in new Millennium xovers, 
The Seas W18's, gave a  better punch with new M caps. So those stay, and feel the new xovers made a  nice gain. 

Would, could, should have...

The world moves on. What do you expect if your biggest goal was to not spend money?  

When I was a budget audiophile,  the absolute best deals were the ones that in hindsight were terrific.   :)

Now, the best deals are the ones where I find the product before the rest of the world. It does require opening the wallet, however.  :)

By the time it's like a Magico, its already too late. You will not typically get pedigree, price and extreme performance all in one.  :)

At $15K the Yamaha NS5000 and the TAD ME-1 were greatly preferred by me over the Magico A3. The Vivid Kaya 45 at $18K was also preferred by me. I was demoing all of the speakers before COVID.

Buy Rockport or Vimberg if MAGICO is below your standard.

I don’t see a problem. No one is forcing you to buy them and there are a lot of audio components that have or are going up in price. As far as the capacitor choice, the A3 are built to a price point, and the margin may not be there to put more expensive caps in them.

If you know so much about speaker design and caps, try building a pair and see how it works out for you.