@smodtactical I have not heard the Magico M2 but have hear lower end products in Magico's line. I have supreme confidence that it is spectacular.
I saw that SEAS is offering Graphene coatings on their drivers. I will make a point to listen to them at Capital Audiofest.
My design is pretty good and for stand-mounts I am confident I can go toe-to-toe with anyone. It will be interesting to see how my designs stack up against the S1 MK2 and the Sabrina when I introduce them.
Much of what has been discussed so far in this thread can also be found in a similar related thread on Audiogon started back on 5/25/18 by Vinny55: “Which material sounds better for speakers construction? Wood, Ply or MDF?”
i noted in more specific detail on that thread, more than I am here, about how and why Paradigm’s Persona Speakers use 7 Layers of High Density Fiberboard (HDF) with internal cross-sectioning of Marine Fiberboard. I suggest referring to that thread for many similar points made about cabinet construction in this thread as many things will get restated here that you can find there.
I own vintage speakers, mainly JBL products (monitors); In addition to MBL and Duntech. I heard some YG Sonjas a few weeks ago and was impressed with the quality (natural) sound they delivered. So much so, I contemplated selling some gear and upgrading to the YG.
I heard a floor-standing set of metal cabinet [aluminum, I believe] speakers at the home of Dan D'Agostino [founder of Krell] a dozen years ago, demonstrated by the man himself. They sounded fine ! Whether they were prototypes or not, I don't know, but they were designed to be Krell loudspeakers.
geoffkait, notice the two "f"s. Just went to the Audiomachina web site. Interesting design. I like that it is a line source and I like that it goes into corners although that will cause issues with some rooms. Question, what are the 1/2 inch diameter black bumps on either side of the drivers? Are the three or so inch drivers run full range and if so I assume the amplifiers are equalized to some degree?
Can I sell you a CD Re-animator? Or maybe some Dark Matter Optical Treatment. I thought you had something to do with AudioMachina. I had never heard of them. So, now I won't offend anyone??? Running a 3 inch driver full range is almost the silliest thing I have ever seen even if they are forming a line array. This is Pipe Dreams meets Bose. Sort of like crossing a rhino with a giraffe. Their horizontal dispersion above 8 kHz will be offal (intentional))) and everything will be Doppler distorted from the bass. Even if you crossed to subs the high frequency dispersion will be so bad that the listening position will be limited to exactly the spot where the beams cross. Judging by the lengths they went to to make this speaker it must cost a fortune. Either a SoundLabs or Magnepan 20 or 30 series speaker is going to out perform these things for probably much less money. I don't want to jinx anyone but I doubt these guys will be around long.
TAG McLaren Calliopes are made of aluminum alloy and they pre-dated Krells’ LAT Series by several years. I think they were really onto something but it was all for naught. I have a pair of Calliopes and I feel fortunate to own them; probably one of several dozen pairs that were sold in North America before TAG went belly-up. They don’t do deep bass but they are superb in every other aspect.
Geoffkait, when was Klipsch founded. I do not know the History of Audio Machina as to when they first released their product but unless they come up with some low end products that regular folks will like they will be history just like Nearfield Acoustics. If I suggest a linear array speaker I will go with ESLs or ribbons. Maggie 20.1s out performed the Pipe Dreams in every way except volume and the same is true with these Audio Machina things. The Maggie ribbon tweeter is the best tweeter made even better than ESLs due to its wonderful dispersion characteristics. If you look at the physics stacking dynamic drivers is a silly endeavor. There is no driver narrow enough to work. A dome works fine as a point source. Maggie's ribbon tweeter is 1/4" wide and radiates over 100% of its surface area. It is also long enough to function as a linear array over its entire frequency range. Perfect. The only sad part is the woofer is not...long enough. Because the speaker is a bit over 6 feet tall it functions as a line source down to somewhere between 150 and 200 Hz. The best way to deal with this is to make the speaker 7'10" tall so that it abuts an 8 foot ceiling. Then it will be a line source down to 1 Hz. Magnepan thought about doing this but they thought it would decrease their Market I guess because it would make the speaker more expensive. Good magnets are not cheap. Pity. Subwoofer systems just do not function well up at 200 Hz. So, when I set up Maggies I keep the subs point source and jamb them into the corners. I cross at 100 Hz. I guess I am rambling.
Just to be a completist, several makers of tiny speakers in the 70s and 80s used metal cabinets on at least some of their models, including ADS, Boston Acoustics, and, of course, Radio Shack’s Minimus 7 line (except the wood-cabinet 7W).
Celestion SL600 and SL700 that have been mentioned are great speakers. I have heard both and use the SL700 myself. The 700 outperforms the 600 in almost every way.
The speakers have an efficiency of 82db for 1w and the impedance dives to below 4ohm below 100 hz iirc. They need an amplifier that can drive them with a lot of current but once you find the right match these speakers are magical (like with the Primare a30.2). I still have an old pair of sl6si (the cheaper mdf brother of the 700) that I connected about a month ago again to compare to the 700. Compared to the 700, the soundstage was blurry, vocals sounded coloured and the imaging was a bit all over the place, even though they're very nice speakers too. The aerolam cabinets are so quiet the image is just painted around the cabinet and very nicely holographic. I will cherish them for long I think.
Baltics far more costly than $40 a cab to build a speaker a 2x8 sheets $70 much more if furniture grade or veneered Aluminum is cheap to use once you set up to use it. Aluminum is about $1900 a ton birch ply more costly plus waist from ply is not able to be resold, unlike aluminum. It is far cheaper to paint then veneer ply, aluminum is light so you save on shipping costs. Why you see many home theater in a box and computer speaker systems using it. More to the design of a loudspeaker than cabinet materials I think focusing on such while overlooking the whole is self-defeating.
The cost of the (aluminum) cabinet is only part of the story. Take a look at the cross section of a Magico speaker and when you see all the bracing that is required, then you’ll see why they weigh as much as they do., and maybe why they cost as much as they do.
Meridian uses\aluminum sandwiched in plywood and some inner coating with 6 lacquer layers and when JA measured the 8000's he found no measurable resonances!
kalali Magico is priced to attract audiophiles who equate cost as much as any other performance aspect they are well made well-designed loudspeakers for sure but overpriced like most all high-end today. And maybe you missed this part of my post above { More to the design of a loudspeaker than cabinet materials I think focusing on such while overlooking the whole is self-defeating}
Given that I compete with Magico and offer a $7000 pair of carbon fiber stand-mount speakers, I have minimal interest in defending them but will say that there is a big difference between a 1/16" press forged cabinet vs one made from 3/8" extruded aluminum. You also have to consider fixed tool and die costs in both cases compared to any wood material be it MDF, Baltic Birch or African Rosewood.
I would love to say Magico is overpriced but other than retail margin, I can't see an issue with their pricing and they don't build in the monstrous margins that some other companies do. I looked a producing a speaker like the A1 and I can't do it at a lower price unless I want to produce them and import them by the container from the far east and I have to outlay a lot of cash up front for tooling.
Regarding my costs on Baltic Birch, you can get panels a little cheaper than what you see at retail from people who are buying at wholesale in large quantities. And for the size speaker I am talking about, you can get 2 speakers (one pair) out of a 2' x 8' sheet. That is where the $40 came from.
9”w x 15”h x 12”d with one internal brace. I taper mine from the 9” from to a 6” back. There is virtually no waste but this is a pretty typical cabinet size with an internal volume of ~.45 cu ft. Though it varies slightly depending on the size of the port needed.
Is a big potential disadvantage of metal speakers like magico q7 or yg sonja that if there is any loose bolt, nut or screw it could rattle in the cabinet ?
Rockport makes some heroic cabinets and other high end brands competing for the same dollar are making inert cabinets. I had a pair of usher be20 dmd’s 285 lbs each that The previous owner replaced the spikes with flat plastic tiles to ease sliding around. I peeled the tiles off and installed the spikes and the bass quality went from a 3 to a 7 in regards to speed and detail. Same cabinet. If aluminum is your thing, cool, but there’s other designs equally capable, just check magico’s website
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@mijostyn, A D'Appoltio Array uses a 3rd order cross-over not a 6dB 1st order cross-over.
" I happen to have discussed this subject with Dr. d'Appolito. I was considering building a set of DIY speakers based on a Dynaudio design for DIY,. the Myrage. The system used first order crossovers. I called up Dr. d'Appolito at his home and asked him about 6db crossovers for his array. He told me that a d'Appolito array functioned as designed with any odd order roll off slopes, but that he was personally partial to 18dB slopes.
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