Musetec (LKS) MH-DA005 DAC

I've made presumption JS 2 won't work with stock internal SMPS, and even if any LPS would work with it, what's the point since Its SMPS.

@sns 

That's true. My 2011 MBP with dual core i7 can do DSD128 through Roon without much struggle, although Roon's modulators and filters are lighter. I haven't tried DSD256 or higher as my DAC is limited to 128 DoP. General rule (at least in regard to HQP) is doubling the sample rate doubles the load on the CPU. I brought up rigorous processing criteria because @fmzip uses HQP and reported a NUC was insufficient for DSD512 even with the non-EC modulator. HQP really is a different beast when it comes to DSP.

The Uptone JS2 won't work with M1 mini, internal power supply not compatible, its designed to accept SMPS.

Maybe you can expand more here.  The first link I provided is the Teradak internal filter.  It has a 5.5mm x 2.5mm standard DC socket.  It's just a matter of connecting a standard linear power supply of adequate value.  Teradak might be doing something specific with their internal filter, but there is nothing special about their linear power supplies.

@metaldetektor I believe some have reported as much as 400 hours. I never started serious listening below 100 hours. Easy to burn in dac, just leave on with signal flowing through, don't need music playing through speakers.

@sonic79 This is assuming one is using HQPlayer. Certainly, if one wants to use HQPlayer to full potential extreme processing power needed, Roon DSP doesn't require as much. I believe even Roon Nucleus or any NUC with I5 and above is sufficient.

The Uptone JS2 won't work with M1 mini, internal power supply not compatible, its designed to accept SMPS. Uptone would have to produce internal power supply, like MMK for earlier minis to work. I presume the Teradak LPS requires their internal filter to work correctly. All the internal mini ps are designed for SMPS, won't work with LPS. https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/60969-apple-m1-chip-for-music-server/#comment-1093146

I do agree running higher amp LPS than called for is always good thing.

My take on even 004 modded to your level, can't replicate 005 ultimate sound quality.

I would agree.  The specific list of modifications that fmzip listed out will definitely help the sound quality of the 004, but it doesn't address all design problems.  The Crystek 957 clock is an improvement over the stock clock, but it is somewhat laid back in sound (more like a McIntosh sonic signature).  Accusilicon clock is much better if you cannot work in an OCXO.  The bumped up 10,000uf Mundorfs will definitely help, but in my opinion, Mundorf Mlytic are already compromised as they essentially place a "veil" over the music.  Upper mids/highs lack attack and speed, bass is not as strong/full.

The further problems are all on the digital power supplies where the stock caps are severely undersized.  This presents higher ripple on the regulator outputs and also weakens bass response.

Supposedly, the latest M1 mini will only use a max of 39 watts power (which is 3.25A at 12V):

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201897

The previous mac mini's used up to 122 watts, which is 10.1 amps.  You really need the huge Teradak 13A power supply for this (only game in town that provides that much current).

If' you are running a M1 Mini, I think you can get away with a lower sized power supply and end up with a much better result than the Teradak.  You could get the internal power filter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/184685135284?hash=item2b001785b4:g:ICcAAOSwMmhelgMm

Then look at a much nicer LPS.  I suppose the Uptone JS-2 would work here if you like that model.  You can also look at the Keces P8.  The Keces has a very large 35,200uf capacitor bank and uses 4 transistors in parallel to supply the output current. (the Uptone looks to have a huge capacitance as well).  DO NOT buy the 4A Teddy Pardo for this application as it is very inefficient and will get extremely hot!  Teddy Pardo is really only good for loads up to 0.6A.

Even though the M1 mini will run with a 4A linear power supply, I would highly recommend getting a much larger one to allow for smoothest current delivery and regulator heat dispersion.

Sorry if already answered, but what kind of break-in period did folks experience?

Real time upsampling to DSD512 can require a lot of processing power. Using the ASDM7EC modulator with the more intensive filters is too demanding for most consumer CPU's. In fact, offloading the filters to a powerful GPU is needed as the CPU alone is not enough. Something on the order of an i9-12900k with RTX 3080 might get the job done. Far from an inexpensive or basic computer. Forget about passively cooling such a rig.

The non-EC modulators and lighter filters are significantly less demanding, so a less powerful system might do it. DSD256 also presents less load.

With I7 processor that NUC theoretically should have functioned properly, however, Roon has list of known NUC's that work with ROCK, that particular NUC not on list.

The Teradak will work, requires installation of internal filter. While I presume this superior to stock mini, I wouldn't expect its comparable to earlier minis with Uptone MMK and JS-2 LPS. We're talking $300 for M1 vs. $1100 for earlier/my mini, still worth a try. LPS on mini easily best streaming upgrade I've experienced, fiber media conversion is another no brainer upgrade.

005 will expose every single flaw and upgrade in streaming solution, have plans for major upgrades in order to extract full potential of this dac.

@sns

I’m going to confirm the Teradak will work.

Just an FYI, I built a NUC8i7BEH with ROCK installed. It stuttered like mad  upscaling practically everything to DSD512. That was the reason I tried the Mac M1 mini, pleased with the results to say the least

@fmzip  Uptone doesn't offer upgrades for M1 mini's.  That Teradak should be worthwhile upgrade for your M1, I use Teradak LPS on some of my equipment, very reliable over many years.

Only the Nucleus plus would be able to process DSD512 without dropouts. The regular Nucleus or whatever NUC you tried didn't have enough processor capability, generally you're going to need Intel I7 to process higher rate DSD. The M1 has plenty of processing power.

I didn't know or perhaps didn't see you were running high rate DSD. For people running these high rate DSD via Roon, HQplayer, etc. low level Nucleus, NUC's and even some of the higher priced off the shelf solutions won't do the job.

fmzip, Do the Teradak along with some optimization, therefore, shutting down unneeded apps, should give you server that would require substantial expenditure to beat. If you go with Teradak, please report back your impressions.

@sns

Thanks for your input

I see an LPS and Teradak are available for the latest M1 mini, could you point me in the direction of what does Uptone offer for this?Why do you feel the M1 is inferior to a Nucleus or NUC? I tried both , neither could process DSD512 without dropouts.

http://www.teradak.com/products/72.html

With your list of mods! Only reinforces my sense stock mac mini is your weak link, server quality does make a difference. If you were to keep mini, Uptone mods, for off the self, Roon Nucleus, any NUC or can go way upscale. I'm planning on diy solution, $2.5K in parts alone, yes, my experience is server is one of the most important components in streaming chain. With your total setup, I'd think upgrade in server would be easily heard.

My take on even 004 modded to your level, can't replicate 005 ultimate sound quality. I mentioned power supply in previous post as I presume this is fundamental to 005 performance. One of the highlights of 005 performance is it's simply magical micro dynamics, this single aspect gives 005 breath of life, the very essence of this dac for me, unique power supply of 005 delivers this.

@sns @melm 

LKS-004 mods are::

1) Replaced the metal oxide trimpots for the IBV section with metal foil Vishay VFR 1240W pots
2) Swapped crystals to Crystek 957X on both the Singxer SU-2 and LKS-004
3) Had I/V resistors custom made by Texas Components 2 Watt Vishay TX2575 0.1% .
4) Analog section power filter cap replaced with Mundorf 10,000uF 63V MLGO Mlytic AG
5) Swapped to low leakage Schottky barrier diodes Vishay MBRF10H100 100V 10A
6) Vcom bypass capacitors replaced with Wet Film capacitors
7) Replacement of 0.1uF WIMA polyester caps with 0.15 uF WIMA MKP Polypropylene caps
8) Metallized mylar/polyester caps on the analog final/post filter replaced with polyproplyene caps

I am using a Sonore Ultra Digital with LPS after the MAC M1 Mini. I believe I can only do DSD512 via I2s with it, DoP is limited to DSD256 via USB I thought? The difference between DSD256/512 is simply night and day, amazing. The LKS really shines with DSD512 which is why I was curious if any of the 005 users were using it.

I don't believe they offer an LPS mod for the KItsune SU-2?

https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/ktesu2/

The Mac M1 Mini is dedicated for HQ Player and Roon only. It's been working flawlessly thus far

The company I work for assembles printed circuit boards. I would have to agree, what I see inside the -005 looks very impressive, just wondering if I should put my dollars elsewhere

@fmzip I have hard time believing one could get 005 level of performance with any 004, no matter level of mods. 005 excellent power supply is just one section of dac that can't be replicated wtih 004.

Still, you're not getting everything 004 can offer. Using stock mac mini may be weakest link in your setup. I've had four mac mini setups over the years. 2009 stock mini, 2014 stock, 2014 with Core Audio (no longer in business) internal and external power supply, 2014 with Uptone Audio MMK and JS-2 lps. All modified minis also optimized as music sever, therefore, only essential apps operable. Modded minis  far surpass stock minis. I'd likely go for better server prior to possible purchase of 005.

LPS on your Kitsune would also be nice upgrade. My take is reaching 005 potential requires first class network, clean AC.  I also suspect 005 with usb feed preferable to I2S input. I have Kitsune SU-6, yet to try since purchase at same time as 005. Great sound quality with usb input, don't feel the need to even experiment with this. I presume great amount of engineering effort for 005 usb input make it the preferable input. Also,  with usb  one can run Roon endpoint/steamer discreetly. Divorcing streaming function from Roon core is optimum setup, usb allows this.

@fmzip

You may find some folks having more experience with the 005 over at the head-fi 005 thread. If you want comments about whether "there is really more to be had with the 005" you might want to summarize the modifications you have made to the 004. IIRC there are those who have modified the 004 extensively and maintain they have achieved even more in SQ than has the 005. In any event, a couple of folks over there will probably understand what you have done.

You write that you are going directly from a Mac Mini to the 004. Are you using a decrapifier of some kind, or have you considered something like a DLNA bridge? Or does the use of HQPlayer make those unnecessary or undesirable?

Curious, are any of you using your -005 with DSD512 material? I have a highly modified LKS -004 with a Kitsune Singxer SU2. I am using the  SU-2 i2s to feed the -004 from a Mac Mini, running Roon/Tidal and HQ Player. I am upsampling  everything to DSD512/ASDM7/poly-sinc-xtrr-mp-2s via HQPlayer. I really couldn't be more happy with the sound, just wondering if there really is more to be had with the-005.

The rest of my system: McIntosh Mx-150/MC312 B&W Nautilus 803's

Thanks @yyzsantabarbara, I appreciate the info and your impressions with the preamps you have at hand. It sounds like you have a couple of great options, and you're well set with two really great systems. That's awesome - enjoy.

I should add that I will be using the CODA 07x preamp and Benchmark LA4 preamp with the 005 in my office. I was doing this with the first 005 before I moved it to the bedroom with the Freya+. The 005 can output both RCA and XLR at the same time (like the Benchmark DAC3B). I have the 2 preamps setup nicely with a mix of RCA and XLR sources. Some of my source's support both RCA and XLR output at the same time.  It is a simple matter of changing to one of the two 15-foot XLR cables from the preamps to the single amp between the speakers.

The CODA 07x is a bit noisier than the LA4 but it has a very beautiful sound. Whatever is added, some warmth et al, is a nice addition. The LA4 is stark neutral and does not seem to add anything, It is also totally silent. I like both and I seem to switch preamps each morning.

@fl_guy  I only have a few hours on the Freya+ with the stock tubes. I have not had a tube preamp before, so this is a little new to me. As I posted above, the Freya+ allowed me to use the RAAL SR1a with the Benchmark AHB2 and it sounds different and great from my other SR1a amps, CODA #8 and KRELL K-300i (and soon KRELL 175XD). Since the AHB2 is my fav amp the Freya+ is bringing me lots of happiness with the SR1a.

I cannot say for sure yet if the Freya+ and AHB2 is my fav combo but I did sell another preamp yesterday, Topping pre90, because the Freya worked so well in the first few days. It also looks like I have a buyer for my second AHB2 amp. By coincidence that gives me just enough money to buy a second 005. I already miss it in the office system. I am using the Benchmark DAC3B in the office. It stays but the 005 will get most of the action once I get a second one.

hi @sns, thanks for your comments.

I think that I get the distinction/point that you're trying to make (and my impressions so far agree btw). It seems to me that we're reporting very similar impressions in slightly different ways.

I'm glad to hear that only more good things are in store for the longer term sound once the DA005 has fully stabilized! 

@fl_guy  005 not forgiving, yet is NOT UNFORGIVING. This is kind of hard thing to wrap one's head around. Sometimes we think of equipment that is not forgiving as having to be unforgiving. 005 is rare beast in that it toes a very delicate line between the two.

005 is not editorializing in any way I can perceive in over year of ownership. I've changed out tubes, resistors, capacitors in various equipment, three amps (two SET, one push pull tubes), two linestages, various network changes for streaming, different power cords,  and 005 just kind of keeps chugging on. It illuminates every change, yet never goes off in some unintended flavor direction. It is rather like an unchanging reference point for all other changes to system. System went off in analytical direction once with addition of audiophile switch, otherwise has always remained NEUTRAL.

I just have a hard time ascribing some sort of over arching flavor or characteristic to 005. What color is neutral? Can't recall another piece of equipment in over thirty years as audiophile that I couldn't adequately describe with some color or temperature characteristic. Color is like invisible and temp. is exactly between hot and cold, warm and cool.

I'm about 40 hours in. Just to add my two cents in case it's helpful ...

Yep, the sound changes quite a bit during the initial hours to my ears also.  Listening every 4 hours or so, just for fun. It has sounded really good at times, and at one point I literally thought 'wtf?'? that sounds totally different - and not good', took the headphones off and set it back to cook some more.

As far as the sound character goes, I think that @melm summed it up very well when he wrote "Fluidity, clarity, bass extension". Maybe I'd describe it further as clarity first and foremost (at the 40 hour point), with a good measure of fluidity and natural sound, plenty of PRaT, pace and control, including bass.

Overall at this point it seems to be settling in, and sounds really good. So far in character it reminds me a bit of the Benchmark DAC3, but better, perhaps a bit more fluid and natural.

As far as whether there is a tendency toward relentless or hyper analytical sound, I I can see where that impression comes from. I'd describe it (as some others have) as not kind to aggressive sounding recordings.

For example, listening to some Mike Dawes acoustic guitar (Somebody I Used to Know, Boogie Slam, Slow Dancing in a Burning Room, Superstition, etc.) which are pretty 'hot' sounding recordings. Sounds great, but the sound as captured on the recordings can be a bit relentless.

With the DA005 the character of these recordings comes through crystal clear. At this point, it seems to me like a totally honest view into the recording and source. Unforgiving, perhaps, but I'm thinking that's as it should be - no editorializing or 'beauty filter' smoothing is applied to the sound at all. To be clear, I don't find it dry or harsh at all - just totally clear, in a good way.

Yeah, I understand that the sound should stabilize and continue to get better as I get to try it with more recordings, so consider these preliminary impressions of course, fwiw. Cheers.

@melm -Happy New Year!

Since I have a MacBook Air, I will be burning CDs via an Apple USB Superdrive, using dBpoweramp CD Ripper because there is no version of Exact Audio Copy that is Mac compatible. I have an Aurender N100H with an Ethernet Gigaport and 2 USB 2.0 data ports. I have a USB connection between the Aurender and the 005, which sounds awesome, btw.

@wharfy 

I've been reading with pleasure about your CD experience on the Pro-Ject thread.  Looks like you're having a good time.  I write in response to your venture into CD burning.  I think you'll find that a very interesting voyage.  I wrote earlier that ripping CDs and playing them from a hard disk to be a great convenience.  I also found that it improved SQ in a clearly discernable way.  But I was starting from an Oppo 105.  You are starting from the Pro-Ject.  So it will be very interesting to see what can be acomplished.  Which Aurender will you be using?  USB or spdif to the DAC?  In my case it's USB to the DAC and when you do that it's, agan, a bit like analog where a lot of very little things can make a difference.  And, oh yes, Happy New Year.

@yyzsantabarbara thanks for the update. It's great that you've found a pairing that you are very happy with, congrats & enjoy :-).

I haven't yet decide what pre-amp to try the Musetec yet. Out of curiosity, are you using and liking stock tubes in the Freya+ w/ your Musetec?

Musetec saves the day. A post I made on the bedroom SR1a headphone system (or 2 channel for my ears).

Raal Ribbon Headphones - SRH1A | Page 316 | Headphone Reviews and Discussion - Head-Fi.org

Yesterday, I called Shenzehn (sp?) about getting the same discount as I got the first time, to buy a second 005. They gave me one, but I could not pull the financial trigger. Got to wait until Black Friday 2022.

@melm @jc4659 -Just an update on the thrill I am having pairing the Pro-Ject CD Box RS2 and the Musetec DA005 DAC. I believe the synergy between the two is perfect to my ears, using the AES//EBU connection. I've had the DAC long enough to be well through the burn-in period, over 400 hours, and am enjoying the "new sounds" I'm hearing from oft-listened to CDs.

As an aside, I have a Aurender music server with a USB connector that sounds terrific because the DAC is USB optimized. When I get time I'm going to venture into CD burning because of what I've been reading on this thread.

@agentwja
You write of the possibility of getting an R2R DAC and a chip DAC to compare. If you look around you can see that it’s been done here by two fair and credible audiophiles with no commercial interest in either. Moreover it was done with two very different audio systems and (probably) with two very different choices of music. That would be by @pt999 in this very thread comparing the Musetic with dual ESS9038pro chips and the Holo Audio May KTE. The other is by by @dbb in the thread, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/review-holo-may-l2-dac-and-the-musetec-audio-lks-audio-mh-da005-da, comparing the Musetec with the Holo Audio May L2 DAC. Despite their personal differences, they came to very similar conclusions, to wit, these DACs are very close in performance. I’d like to speculate why that might be.

There is a great effort by the industry to promote the differing technologies in the digital realm. Whether they promote the R2R technology, the ESS9038pro or other chips or the chips they develop themselves using FPGA chips. Two of these technologies are relatively expensive to produce. That would be today’s R2R technology and the FPGA chips.

The R2R technology of today is a discrete one. It is made of many individual parts, including lots of precision resisters. In parts and labor, that is expensive. Some time ago R2R chips were easily available so all of these parts and this labor were collapsed onto a relatively inexpensive chip. And in the digital realm, it seems, chips work as well as discrete. But these chips are no more, but for some NOS.

Programming an FPGA chip is an alternative to paying anywhere from $20 to $95 (in small quantities) to companies like TI, AKM or ESS for their chips. It takes many man-hours to do it. That costs money. Whether the result can outperform the three decades and three generations of ESS chip development, for example, is a question that has not been answered, for me anyway. But it does give companies that do it the promotional possibility of differentiating their product. "Our chip is better, like no other, and it can be updated!"

All of which leads to my personal conclusion that none of this matters as much as the more important considerations of a DAC. Makers who purchase the relatively inexpensive chips can put their resources here. They are: (1) Power supply and (2) analog section. There are some very well known and very expensive DACs that use cheap power supplies. There are some very expensive and very well known DACs that use cheap analog chips as the basis for their analog section. IMO one of the reasons that the DACs in the two comparisons above sounded both very good and very much like each other is that they both have fine power supply sections and fine discrete analog sections.

How can you tell when a DAC has a good power supply and/or a good analog section? You must look inside and see. Or find a review that does that for you, rather than just recite a list of audiophile platitudes and call that a review.

I’m not here to denigrate any brand, but two you list have been around for a very long while and one of them, at least, is well known to have a sound signature particular to the brand. Also, look inside and compare. This is a fast moving segment.

^ +1 @sns 

@agentwja  Of dacs you mentioned Denafrips Terminator more in this class, RME a step down, this based other's reviews and comparisons.

I agree it would be informative to audition both R2R and chip dac together, just be sure  both in same segment of market. I've seen too many comparisons of dacs with different topologies in different market segments where one comes out on top and the other condemned.

My take is the top dacs can all be pleasurable in right system, one is matching flavors more than resolving differences. The less obvious differences, which may include micro dynamics, timbre, tonality will take longer term listening to ascertain.

I am wondering if DAC stands for “Drive Anyone Crazy” !!

I am educating myself on forums and YouTube vids in my quest to upgrade from my Bel Canto DAC2 and a Monarchy DIP fed by a BLUESOUND Node2i via Cat8 Supra. I have a MFA MAGUS A2 recapped by Scott Franklin and I sure enjoy it and definitely want to keep it in my system. So now I am going “crazy” with all my choices ( budget up to 5K if need be but prefer 2-3K) but actually I am enjoying all the threads and being retired I have ample time to listen to music while reading. 
Some of the DACs I am considering are the Holo May, Musetec 005, Dennafripp Pontus II, RME, another Bel Canto DAC and Benchmark DAC3L.

An interesting note is that I was able to actually speak on the phone to a gentleman  at Bel Canto which was refreshing and when I called Benchmark twice I spoke with Rory who answered all my questions and was very patient. Rory to his credit volunteered their return policy and suggested I try it and return it if not happy. That is standing by your product and displays confidence in the product(s).

So, I feel like I need in an ideal world an R2R DAC and a CHIP DAC to compare and play around with.  

@melm 

I am waiting to hear back from The Repair Shop, the only authorized Meridian repair location in the U.S.  I really like the Meridian.  It has a solid feel, smooth drawer mechanism, and is built like a tank but if repairs are too costly then I will look at alternatives.  The Pro-ject transport gets rave reviews but I am also looking to get away from using my laptop as a streamer.  It's good to know that there is more to be had from the DAC whether spinning CDs or streaming.  The Musetec DAC is a keeper.

@jc4659
Nice post. You’re not the first to write of a WAF for this DAC, though we might have to redefine WAF. As you have only 40 hours on the DAC you have a lot to look forward to. With a CD player that might not be operating at its best, you may not be running on all 4 cylinders for CD playback. Eventually you may want to go to a better CD player as @wharfy has done (See Pro-Ject thread), or rip your CDs and go to streaming as others of us have done. It’s a fork in the road that deserves a lot of consideration.

Now that my new DA005 is selling down and the sound is somewhat stable after about 40 hours of playing time, I decided to ask my wife if she would be interested in listening to the system with the new DAC. Normally she has little interest and claims that she can't hear the subtle differences that I listen for but has placated me in the past and despite her denial she has very acute hearing.  I played two songs from Alison Krauss and Union Station "New Favorite" CD that she has heard many times before without my saying a word.  Afterwards I asked her opinion and half expected her to say it sounded good but couldn't really tell if it was better.  Without hesitation she replied "it sounds much clearer."  Leaving well enough alone, I didn't press her for opinion on soundstage depth, width, well defined and fleshed out images, tonality, etc. which I feel are also improved with this DAC.  What stood out for her was the clarity which also struck me on day 1.  I am very pleased with the performance of the Musetec DA005 and can now turn my attention to streaming and discovering new artists!  Thank you to those who posted here and turned me on to this great DAC!

Based on melm's investigation that dac may be overpriced. With more acceptance of Chinese forays into higher end audio we may see more new Chinese products come onto market at inflated prices in order to maximize profit margins. Price doesn't always reflect actual value, this holds true for equipment manufactured in all countries.

melm - just saying. 
 

Happy New Year 🥳 

Well, the Musetec DAC must be reaching an unanticipated level of acceptance so that its name is now being used to shill for a competitive, virtually unknown, product.

As for the competitive product, it seems actually to be aimed at the Holo Audio Spring level of DAC and their customers rather than anything more advanced. However, based upon what I see inside it should not attain the SQ of the Spring.

If we bypass the laudatory review and actually look inside, what do we see. Or rather what do we NOT see. We do not see a totally separate power supply for its digital side. That is a feature usually found on DACs that aspire to a higher level of SQ. Rather, the two sides are powered through the same transformer. That alone should be sufficient to distinguish it from the Spring.  

But I’ll take this effort to be complimentary to the Musetec. Now perhaps @high-amp should go on to one of the Holo Audio threads and interrupt over there. I’m certain they’d appreciate his effort.

Happy Holidays and Best Wishes for a Great New Year to all.

@arafiq 
Thanks for the kind words.  All of these are terrific components.  You were lucky to find a used one in good condition because they are all considered to be keepers.  I didn't lose much sleep over the very small benefits I might have gotten by choosing something else.  My strong belief is that what comes before the DAC and the rest of the system afterward can have far more impact.

@pt999 
Terrific post comparing to your Holo May KTE.   As you say, another data point, really next to what @dbb  has written.  Very different set of surrounding components, probably different kind of musical samples.  Valuable information for anyone contemplating purchase of either unit.  

@jc4659 
Nice to know that the 005 is working out for you.  I'm not in total agreement with @sns .  I found, at least when playing disks from my Oppo, that I preferred a Toslink even over an Oyaide silver spdif.  An optical cable was recommended by a cable guru that is inexpensive and VERY good.  It is called "Cable Matters Toslink Cable" and available from Amazon. 

Check out my new thread here:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/for-all-you-musetec-mh-da005-dac-fans

@pt999 

I agree with you on the sound of the May except I found that the black background and instrument separation was achieved by omitting detail. To my ear the May provided less detail and more separation.  This is to me a contrived but pleasing effect. In reality, detail and separation decrease as your seat moves back in the hall. The May, as I heard it, gave less detail as if you were seated further back in the hall, but, paradoxically, more separation. That is contrary to reality and reality is my bias.

@jc4659 Sounds like cd player may be on last legs. I gave up cd's when couldn't find adequate replacement for my Mark Levinson  #37. If you're considering replacement transport you should check out  Pro-Ject CD Box RS2T, tons of great reviews, mechanism designed by same guys who designed Phillips Pro, one of the all time great transports, and used in my still missed ML 37. I'd pick this up in a minute if still playing cd's, Also has I2S output, if someone could figure pin out configuration on Pro-Ject could be used with I2S in on 005, that would be a killer combo.

@sns 

I am aware of the limitations of Toslink but I have a suspicion that the CD player leaks current. I have tried coax out in the past and twice I had a reclocker go out.  I have not had any problems since switching to optical out.  I believe the galvanic isolation is helping.  The CD player is an older Meridian 508.20 factory updated to 508.24 status and the IEC connection has no ground prong.  I don't want to risk passing extraneous voltage/current into the new DA005 DAC.  At some point I should have the CD player checked out since it is built like a tank.  I recently discovered that certain digital power cords when connected to a Furman power distributor cause the CD player to frequently display "No Disc".  Changing power cords and plugging into the wall enables the CD player to play that same disc.  Clearly, the Meridian has some power issues.  Despite these, CDs sound great using Toslink into the DA005.  I'll eventually retire the Meridian.

@jc4659 Toslink (optical) outs on cd transport and 005 input is the worst possible. Yes, galvanic isolation, but well documented as poorest connection. Try coax out, will be much better.

Streaming with usb will be much better with dedicated music server vs. general service computer.

@pt999 You have network issues somewhere if you can't run Roon non DSP on DPLL BW1 without glitches, I've never had a single glitch on DPLL BW1 in over a year, anything less is not hearing full 005 capability. No glitches when I've occasionally tried DSP. I'm actually surprised you can use much Hq Player dsp with I5 processor.

@pt999 

Thanks for the update! It's good to know that with ample burn in the DA005 closes the gap with the Holo May DAC.  I have no where near the hours of playing time on my DA005 but already perceive changes that are very impressive.  I am using the optical output from a CD player and CDs have never sounded so clear, smooth, and dynamic with the DA005.  Using usb from a laptop is not quite there yet but with less than 20 hours of actual playing time I know the sound will improve.  So far I am very satisfied with this DAC and it is a significant jump from the CODEX I had been using which is no slouch!

This is my update on the Musetec 005 after 2 weeks. My Musetec now has more than 350 hours of playing time after 16 days. I decided not to return the unit to Shenzhen Audio.
In my first report after one week at about 150 hours on the 005, my experience with the May and Musetec DACs are: on the May DAC, the sound reaches out farther and more distinct in a 3D space, the Musetec is a little further back. The vocals seem more fluid, hanging in the air a little longer with the May, thus the sense of air and bloom around the instruments are thicker. The tone is crisper with the May. Overall the May presents the illusion of the band in the room closer and more realistically. I felt more engaged in the presence of the musicians.
Now at 350 hours on the Musetec, the difference has closed significantly. The 2 DACs sound very similar. Switching back and forth multiple times on the same music passage, some the differences I found before are no longer valid. The Musetec air and space are about the same as the May. I can’t say the Musetec soundstage is further back. There is still a slight difference in the tone of the 2 DACs; the May is crisper. Instruments and vocals appear a little more distinct and fluid in space, probably from a darker background on the May. At this point, I’m not sure I can pass a blind listening test identifying which is which.
My high sensitive system built around the Edgarhorns (Thank you Dr. Bruce Edgar, we love you, RIP): Router & Small Green Computer i5 Roon server -> TRENDnet switch -> CAT6 cable to EtherRegen side B with AfterDark external clock -> fiber -> Sonore Optical Rendu -> Inakustik USB cable to -> DAC -> balanced cables to Holo Serene preamp -> Wavelength custom 45 amp -> 107dB Edgarhorns with Seismic sub driven by James 1000 DSP amp; Shunyata Denali 6000S on components, PS Audio P500 on LPS and Roon server. I have the same Cerious Graphine Matrix power cables between the 2 DACs and the same Raven balanced cables from DACs to Serene Preamp. When switching DACs, I move only the USB cable from one DAC to the other in Standby, adjust the preamp volume +1dB for the Musetec.
Operational wise, the May can handle everything from the SGC i5 Roon server with HQPlayer upsampling (within limits of the i5 processing power). My Musetec has sound glitches at 96K (or above) sampling frequency using DPLL BW1. I disable Roon DSP to use native sampling rate, set the Musetec DPLL to BW3 during tests to avoid glitches. These random glitches are annoying during listening. I want to use HQPlayer but kept getting Roon "lost audio device" error when switching DACs. The Musetec USB input is limited to DSD512/PCM384K. The May USB supports up to DSD1024/PCM1.536MHz. I only use USB and PCM. I don’t want to spend endless time testing every different combinations. I’m not attached to equipment; they are just a means to listen to music. At this point, I prefer the May DAC for its smooth operation with Roon/HQPlayer, and my preference towards the May tone.
I don’t engage much in Forum conversations, for a very long time now due to personal reasons. Please treat this as a data point from a single user’s opinion.

@melm Thank you for the information. This is very helpful. As I mentioned above, my decision to not go with Musetec had nothing to do with the quality of the DAC itself, but more with the 'perceived' lack of clarity on Shenzen's return policy. I'm sure it's a great DAC, otherwise @yyzsantabarbara would not have preferred it over his beloved Benchmark.

I went back and forth between three DACs -- Terminator 2, Holo Audio May, and Musetec 005. I probably would have been happy with either one, but today a good deal on a used Terminator 2 showed up and I grabbed it. In the future, I would love to give Musetec a try when funds become available. And if it really is better than the Terminator 2, I might consider selling the T2 and keeping the 005.

Having said that, I'm considering an LKS 004 for my home office system. I will appreciate it if someone can share their impressions about the previous version.

I noticed that Network Acoustics is now selling the 005 in the UK. They state on their website: We are extremely particular about the electronics we use to develop and test our own products, and in the quest to find a reference quality DAC we discovered the Musetec MH-DA005. This DAC has replaced a much more expensive (£9,000), very highly regarded and well reviewed DAC and it trumps that DAC in all departments. . .

I said in response to an earlier post that I would look into possibilities other than Shenzhen. I have a lot of experience buying from overseas.

I did inquire with Shenzhen as a potential customer and asked them about their return policy telling them I had seen their email to @pt999 . After 48 hours I have not received a reply. Perhaps if pt999 has attempted to return the 005 and can tell us exactly what he was confronted with, that would be valuable information. Given the possible need of a bank charge-back some may wish to order from there; others will not want to. support@shenzhenaudio.com

I contacted Apos Audio, who has NOT been selling the Musetec for about a year. For some reason they maintain a very detailed web page on the Musetec and it usually comes up first when Musetec is Googled. They confirmed that they do not sell it. I was asked if I might like something else they offer.

The Musetec is sold by more than one Chinese seller on ebay also offering a 30 return privilege--buyer pays return postage. With ebay behind you I, personally, would not worry. It’s been my experience that ebay favors the buyer. Their delivery times though seem very long, which seems to be the norm on ebay items from China, so one should inquire with the seller very specifically about delivery. If they promise delivery in writing and too much time goes by without sending a you tracking number you should be able easily to cancel. There are other Chinese sellers such as those under the AliExpress banner, but I see no benefit there.

Another possibility is the European distributer, Clear Components in Cologne Germany. They deliver world-wide. Their price is currently 3250 Euros including VAT. When you take VAT out of it and translate to dollars I have it at $3044 plus $85 delivery, but please do your own math. I do not see them offering a 30 day return. A couple of folks on the head-fi thread have bought from them, and vouch for them. They say they have a limited number available and say they have a 5-8 day delivery time. info@clear-components.de

Finally one can buy directly from the factory. If you inquire there will be perfect information about price, stock and delivery. My experience was that if it’s in stock it will go out the next day. No returns. List price probably. I was certain about wanting one, and buying from the factory means they get all the money (Paypal) and don’t have to split it with a retailer. bleerock@126.com