One of my NuForce monoblock amplifiers seems to be irreparable. I need to get a new amplifier. I’m looking in the one to two thousand dollar range, new or used. Any recommendations for a decent amplifier in that price category?
Hi rvpiano, thanks for your response, so I guess you did heard the Nuforce sta 200 but was not what you expected? And if you mind, When you say "sound much better" you mean is not bright any more?
After using the Red Dragons for two days virtually non-stop, I’ve come to some conclusions. I know it’s much too soon to make a really informed evaluation, but I think I know the basic character of the amp. Even though it “kicked in” from it’s original cold start, it seems to have a brightness that I find impossible to listen to. It’s not because it’s a class D amp. The amps I’ve had for several years (NuForce Reference 9 monoblocks) are also Class D and they have just the right character to my taste. The Red Dragons would have to go a very long way to reach that level. I’m now considering a Belles Hot Rod amp available on Audiogon recommended by Schubert and Johnny from Audio Connection.
As you can see from the above post, the brightness did not go away. A deal breaker for me. The NuForce sta 200 has none of that brightness. It just doesn’t have quite the level of definition as my old NuForce. Otherwise I would have kept it. However, I regard it as a terrific unit, regardless of price.
Rvpiano thank you really for your honesty, my speakers have a small tendency to bright so the red dragon is out of my list. might help you, my other options are the parasound a23, nuprime St 10, job 225, maybe Odyssey (reliable issues I have read)
I ran 27 other ss amps against the Belles over 8 months using a CJ ARC and a VTL preamps In the end it was an easy choice I bought the Belles The used Belles 350 will easily win over Red Dragons amps. There is nothing wrong w dragons in any section of the bass-mid or treble but its just that after 45 min of listening you will want to walk the dog or check the.e mail unattached analyzing instead of listening where a normal amp like the Belles pulls you deep into the music and you want to keep playing. If in the Jersey area loaner units available Best JohnnyR
Once they get fully broken in, you may want to experiment with different/better power cords. At least according to the guys showing these amps at the audio show, the Class D amps just like Class A amps respond to power cords much more than Class AB, but for different reasons. They sounded great at the show, especially the bass response.
I'd be real curious to hear how the Dragons would sound with a top line CJ or a VTL preamp in front of them. It should round the rough edges quite a bit.
John, which Belles amp did you use for the comparisons? I've heard the SA-30 paired with Zu and it was excellent.
I pretty much made up my mind about the Dragons, so I don’t want to start experimenting with power cords and cables.
I made a bid for the Belles Amp on Audiogon and it was accepted. So, I will try that amp and see what happens. Hopefully, it will be the last tryout. They have a 30 day return policy
The Red Dragons actually sound quite good in Soft Rock and the like, but not so much in Classical. So, until the Belles come, it’s other than Classical for me for me to listen to.
"All of a sudden, after playing the unit for several hours, the amp seems to have kicked in. Sounds much better. Who new?"
Hi rvpiano,
I was going to post after your ’1st impressions’ post (stating the Red Dragons sounded a bit bright) to suggest you just wait a few days for them to calm down but, from your last post, it sounds like your amps already did before I could post. I probably should have warned you about this apparent tendency for class D amps to sound a bit bright right out of the box that disappears within the first couple of days of use. I noticed this with all 3 of my class D amps; 2 stereo and a pair of monos all different brands. In my experience, the good news is the brightness goes away rather quickly and then the performance continues to improve (more tonally correct and natural) for several weeks afterward until they stabilize. Too small a sample size to claim a tendency but I’m basing my comments not only on my experiences but also on numerous other class D amp owners reported similar experiences, too. I really don’t recall a specific point in time when I ever thought during this ’break-in’ period that the amps had achieved their optimum performance level. Only in retrospect can I estimate it took about 6-8 weeks for my class D amps to reach their current optimum performance levels. Since class D amps are so efficient, I leave my amps on 24/7 so they’re idling constantly and immediately perform at optimum levels. I suggest you may want to do the same (I only turn them off when I’ll be out of the house for more than a day). It sounds like you’re currently mildly pleased with the Red Dragons thus far. I think you can expect a similar break-in period for your amps with performance improving significantly over the coming weeks. I would just caution against making any decisions until you’ve auditioned them for at least a month or so. Worst case is you return them and try something else. Hope this helped a bit and please keep us posted on your impressions; good, bad or otherwise.
"The 350 was a 6 out of ten rating, and the price was suspiciously low."
I'm eyeing that 350 too. That 350 is being auctioned so the low price that you saw was the bidding price and will probably go up by the time its over. What caught my eyes was the seller, its tektondesign !
I had to leave the house for a few days but left the amp on. When I came back, it was much better. I guess I’ll give it the full 45 days before deciding. Thanks for your interest in this endeavor.
I((('d be real curious to hear how the Dragons would sound with a top line CJ or a VTL preamp in front of them. It should round the rough edges quite a bit.))) Kalali Whenever you try and run a tube preamp into a 10 K load like above your rolling off the extremes ending up with a bleak lifeless system. It's not the brands its the interface.
When RVpiano hooks up the Belles with its 100 K input impedance i prdict he will know in less then 4 minutes whats going on by comparison.
Also, make sure you read in the owners manual if your preamps invert you will need to flip both speaker wires 180 out Also on older CJs with non-polarized AC plugs take a voltmeter and check for best AC plug orientation into the wall outlet.
With Preamp off interconnects disconnected Place voltmeter on AC volts scales with positive probe on preamps chassis and black probe into unpainted wall ground screw or ground round hole. measure the chassis voltage to preamp voltage then flip the orientation of ac plug and measure again. whichever way measures the least chassis voltage will sound best.
I just saw you ordered the Belles 150 to try out, too. Smart move, testing out as many different amps as you can in your home, for no or little cost and in your own system seems to me to be the best method I can think of to ensure you buy an amp you know you'll enjoy. You're welcome for assisting you in your search but I actually enjoy trying to help others with their systems. I get to vicariously enjoy their system improvements without switching all those connecting cables around. I know I tend to encourage people to give class D amps a try before buying anything else but not just because they provided such a significant upgrade in my system's performance but also because I think they offer the best bang for the buck. Of course, I realize that class D amps aren't always the best solution for everyone. There are many good amps available that will provide very good sound quality in most people's systems. But I'm fairly certain that good quality class D amps will outperform the vast majority of class A/B currently available since they're smaller, lighter, run cooler, are more efficient, quieter, more detailed, lower in distortion, have better bass response, are more dynamic and usually cost less. I have heard a handful of very good class A/B amps that outperform some good quality class D amps, however, they're all quite expensive. I would urge you to ignore amp type and just choose the amp that you determine performs the best and is within your budget.
The Belles amp is arriving tomorrow, but the bad news is I am leaving on a 10 day trip the next day! So, I’ll get only a few hours at best to hear it until I get back. The good news is I’ll have a couple of weeks to try it out.
I still have some problems with the Red Dragons. They’ve gotten a lot better with time. But there’s something missing. I really loved my NuForce monoblocks, and have decided to pay more to have them fixed properly. Ultimately, It’ll be a choice between the Belles amp and the NuForce. If the Belles sounds best I’ll keep it and hold on to the NuForce as back-up.
Well, it didn’t take long! As Johnny said, LESS than 4 minutes told the story. The Belles is now my amp. Just about night and day is the difference between the Dragons and the Belles. In about every parameter it excels: clarity, bass, definition, sound staging.... Need I go on? BIG THANKS to Schubert and Johnny for their input. Would never have picked it without them both. Gotta go now. Got some listening to do.
@rvpiano Do you know which variant it is? The last iteration before he went over to the Aria/SA-100 models seems to have been the 150A Reference Version 2.
My version is the 150A Ref V2 , Made in 2010 . Guy I brought it from also had a "Hot Rod" for sale , said the difference is there but no big deal between the two. I know him to be an honest audiophile and true music lover. Sale was only because he was financing going the 300b set route just for fun .
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
