Need recommendation for amplifier

I think everybody here need more info like:
What speakers and preamp you have;
Size of your listening room;
SS or tube preferable...

I have modified Dalquist DQ 20 speakers and a modified Conrad-Johnson PV11 preamp.  Listening room is about 23’x23’. 
The system sounded great with the solid state 160W per channel NuForce monoblocks and also worked well with the inexpensive 80W per channel NuForce Optima Goldman amp (but didn’t sound quite as good.)
I’m open to either solid state or tube.

If you can still find one: a Yamaha P3500s, tested here: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/amplificateurs-de-puissance-haute-fidelite/mesures-ampli-yamaha-p...
It will save you money, and its 2x350 watt will give a very clean and dynamic sound. I bought the 2x250 watt P2500s for my son, and both he and I could not be happier. Build quality is impeccable, and designed to cope with much abuse. The fan will not come on in domestic use.

Hi rvpiano,

    Which Nuforce class D mono-block model do you own that went bad?
    Did Nuforce inform you that your mono-block cannot be repaired?
     It seems odd to me Nuforce would be unable to repair one of their own class D mono amps.  They're really not that complicated since they basically consist of an input section, class D power module  and a switch mode power supply (smps).  It's possible but unlikely that more than 1 of these internal components went bad at the same time but it's more likely one of them is the culprit.  Since all off these internal components are modular and none are very expensive, I don't understand why Nuforce could not repair your amp to like-new condition at a reasonable cost.
     However, you may just want to try out different amplification in your system.  If this is the case, it would be useful to know whether you'd prefer to stay with class D or prefer  another amp topology and whether you prefer a single stereo amp or a pair of mono-blocks.  
     Please clarify.

Thanks,
   Tim

rvpiano,
consider a Conrad Johnson power amp to mate w/ the PV 11.
Happy Listening!

Check out the amps from Odyssey Audio!
http://www.odysseyaudio.com/index.html

Noble100,

It’s a sad story.
The original NuForce Company is out of business.  I’ve been dealing with a former technician from the company and have poured a lot of cash into him for repairs already ( it’s a long story.) I just got both amps back from him last week.
He has warranted them for a year.  So  I’m sending the bad one back, but I have little hope of it not going bad again as he tells me there’s a design problem with the older amps.
So, I’m getting a new one.

rvpiano,

    That is a sad story.  If you want a very good pair of class D monos in your price range I'd suggest D-Sonic M-600 monos that I own and love on my Magnepans or the Red Dragon M-500 or M-1000 monos that get great reviews.

Tim

Noble100,
Based on your recommendation, I just ordered the Red Dragon M-500 monos.
i understand they have a 45 day try-out policy.
They do get great reviews.

rvpiano,
That was fast! Good choice buying the Red Dragon M-500 monos, congrats.
Yes, the 45-day tryout period is very good but I seriously doubt you’ll want to return them. Plenty of clean power and high damping factor should enable your DQ 20 speakers to really sound their best.
The combo of your CJ tube preamp with a very good pair of very neutral class D monos will allow your system sound to be influenced primarily by your preamp and sources so I hope you’re currently very satisfied with the quality of both the CJ and your sources. Your new Red Dragon amps do not add anything to the signal to compensate for subpar recordings, cabling or upstream components.
My D-Sonic M-600 monos are also very neutral and they enabled me to much more easily distinguish how any changes I made in my upstream components or interconnects/power cabling affected my system’s overall sound. This aso included tube swaps/upgrades I made to my former VTL 2.5L preamp.

Enjoy,
Tim

Tim,

I was anxious to get something decent after suffering through the the repairs of the NuForce.  I’m hoping the technician will buy them back from me.  He’ll be able to use them more than me.  I won’t hold my breath though.

Thanks again for the recommendation. 
Thats exactly what I’m looking for, a neutral amp.
I do have excellent upstream components, so hopefully this will be a great match.

rvpiano,

     Glad to help and hope everything works out great for you.   I actually almost bought a pair of the Red Dragon M-500 but they were out of stock on the black models.  I think the M-500  and D-Sonic M-600 both are very neutral amps even though they utilize different class D power modules, the D-Sonic use the newer Pascal modules and I believe the Red Dragon use the latest Ice modules.
    I'm almost certain you're really going to like them.  Plus, the red dragon symbol that lights up on the faceplates is very cool.
 Enjoy,
   Tim

Check out these Van Alstine amps. Dahlquist sound nice with mos-fet amps!
http://www.avahifi.com/products/power-amplifiers/synergy-amplifiers

I see that you already ordered Red Dragons...I’m in need of new amplification too. Integrated, or separates. Was considering Rogue. Also looked at Schiit. Now, I’m looking hard at the Cary SL-100 Pre and SA200.2 Amp. They’re on sale for a few more days direct from Cary. 

How efficient are your speskers.?
Vacuum tube or solid state ?

Audioman58

My speaker’s are able to be driven by an 80w amplifier.
Have no preference for tube or solid state.

80 watt per channel that is.

First,  am very surprised you are having trouble with Nuforce repair person. If it is who I am thinking of, myself and many of my friends who have Nuforce amps have received excellent service from him as recently as last week. PM me for his name. I love my Nuprime Ref 20 amps, but have auditioned many respected brands of class D which I found not as good as the Nuforce/Nuprime sound, so make sure you can have an audition before purchase.

gammajo,


Let me know how to PM and I’ll do it.

Never mind.  I figured it out.

rvpiano
 I know your Red Dragon recommendation was well intended but
 he failed to look at the big picture.
Your tube preamp has a high output impedance
 the Dragons have a 10 k input impedance.
This will be a pretty bleak match.
 I would suggest you look at the Belles Aria Mono Blocks with a 100 k input impedance tube Pre amp friendly and plenty of current to work with the Dahlquist DQ 20s and many other fine speakers.
Here is a review of the Aria Integrated FYI the mono versions of these amps are a real wonderful performer, made in USA and I think you will find even more sophisticated then what you are already enjoying.
http://www.powermodules.com/ewExternalFiles/HFC_412_Exotica_Belles_Reprint.pdf
 Best,
 JohnnyR
Audio Connection

500 ohms is high? That seems low enough to me!
https://www.stereophile.com/content/conrad-johnson-pv11-preamplifier-specifications

JohnnyR,

The Belles Aria monoblocks are a little out of my price range,
 Thanks for the recommendation though.

+1 for Odyssey Audio amps. Also, I would audition Merrill Taranis and Arion Audio S-250. Both are great amps.

@cscrutinizer Take another look at Rogue.  A Cronus Magnum II knocked my Ayre AX-7 off its perch.  And if you have the $$, RP-5 + Stereo 100.

For an SS amp at that price maybe check out the Schiit Vidar…buy 2 for running each in mono for around 1400 bucks. Class A/B instead of D, return policy, snarky manufacturer comments, USA made…and they possibly sound good, although I have no idea.

With all the recommendations for Odyssey Audio, I finally found the page with all their amps listed and am now interested.
Red Dragon doesn’t answer emails or phone calls.
May cancel with them.

How about Levinson 27.5 ? There is one for $1800.

I used Odyssey for several years , went to Van Alstine ,was better.
Went to Belles was FAR better .
Mosfets put a "mist" on classical music which you don’t notice till you hear an amp that doesn’t . Where do you live?
There is a Belles 350 on here that is a killer amp. TRM has a Belles 150A Hotrod for about $ 1050 which I would pay about $ 850  for .

rvpiano,

     I know you just ordered a pair of Red Dragon m-500 monos but I've been doing some online research on Nuforce and found out some information you may not know that I think is important that I let you know about:
     In 2014, NuForce’s cofounder, Jason Lim, with backing from the OEM factory, bought the assets of NuForce’s high-end division, obtained the rights to NuForce technologies, and formed NuPrime Audio, Inc. (Shortly thereafter the NuForce company was sold to Optoma.)    So, technically, Nuforce didn't go out of business but were actually bought by a company called Optoma, an international manufacturer of video projectors.  
     As far as I understand it thus far, Jason Lim was more interested in building and selling affordable hi-end amps, dacs and integrated amps with built in dacs and formed Nuprime for this purpose.  He used the hi-end assets of Nuforce technologies he purchased from the OEM to form the basis of his new company, Nuprime. 
      He then sold Nuforce, consisting mostly of the remaining non-hi-end assets, to Optoma.  Optoma is now named Optoma-Nuforce and they're selling similar but more modest and lower priced class D products than Nuprime. 
      I bored you with all the above so you better understand the 2 main things I think you should know:

1.  I think Nuprime might be more helpful in repairing your Nuforce mono-block than the former Nuforce technician you've been dealing with. 
     I suggest you contact Nuprime and see if they'll be able to repair your amp since Nuprime now owns the hi-end assets of Nuforce  and may still support your amp (I think yours may be considered a former hi-end Nuforce amp),  Here's a link to Nuprime's website

   www.nuprimeaudio.com.  

2.  After researching Nuprime and some of their products' reviews, I think you may want to seriously consider their mono-blocks and compare them to the Red Dragon M-500 monos.  You could read some reviews on their mono-blocks as a start and, if interested,  see if they offer in-home trial periods, too.

     I'm just starting to learn about Nuprime's very interesting mono-blocks and may also inquire about an in-home trial.  What has me so interested is that they seem to be combining a class A input stage with class D power modules like some other very expensive and very well reviewed mono-block companies do, for example Devialet.   Due to the class D power module's extreme neutrality, the tiny class A signal is amplified faithfully to speaker driving levels and the resultant sound is remarkably similar to the sound produced by traditional class A amps which is overwhelmingly considered by most experts and audiophiles to be the pinnacle of solid state amp audio performance.  
    Whether Nuprime's mono-blocks actually succeeded and have the sound qualities of a good class A amp is the big question that can only be answered by professional reviewers or, better yet, our own determination via an in-home audition in our own systems.  My opinion is that I'm very interested in these Nuprime monos even if the sound quality is just in the neighborhood of good class A amps since they are so much smaller, lighter, more electrically efficient, cooler running and so much more affordable than a traditional class A amp.
     What do you think?
        Tim
  

Schubert and noble100,

Just before I got your posts, I got a return phone call from Klaus at Odyssey Audio.   I ordered an amp from him and canceled the Red Dragon.
He said he matched up the amp to my current system.  We’ll see when I get it.

schubert:  I’m sorry to hear you rejected Odyssey in favor of Belles, but since I already made the commitment, I think I’ll try  the amp out.  I have a 30 day trial period.

noble100: Very interesting about NuPrime. Again, I’m going to wait and see how much I like the Odyssey.  If I do, there’s no point in searching further.

Thank both of you for your help

Richard

Schubert,

what is TRM?

The Music Room. One of(the biggest?) dealers selling used gear on Audiogon .I suspect they are related to Underwood Wally another respected new
dealer on here, IMO a good thing .

FWIW , The Odyssey wasn’t even close .
Of course we all hear with our own ears , I'm not saying it was bad .

rvpiano,

     Are you getting a stereo amp or the Stratos mono-blocks? 
     Regardless, I know the Odysseys are very good class A/B amps but I really think you're making a mistake you will regret later. 
     Do you have the means to buy the Odyssey and Red Dragon, compare them both in your system, keep the winner and send back the loser?
     I'm almost certain that, if you do, you'll discover the Red Dragon will outperform the Odyssey in every category  most of us care about, and I do mean every category:  bass performance (higher damping factor), distortion level, power, dynamic range, noise floor along with mid-range and treble neutrality and detail.  
     There are also numerous advantages the Red Dragon amps have that are not related to sound quality:  smaller size, lighter, much more electrically efficient (so much so they can be left on 24/7 if desired to keep them constantly at peak operating temperature which eliminates amp warm-up waits), much cooler running and less expensive.
    Hopefully, you'll be able to compare the Red Dragon and Odyssey amps directly in your own system and determine for yourself which amps perform best.   
    My main point of writing this response, however, was just in case you do not have the opportunity to directly compare the Red Dragon and Odyssey amps.  I thought it might be useful for you to have an informed opinion, based on my decades of using good quality class A/B amps in my systems before discovering the significant performance gains provided by using good quality class D amps instead. 
     I first realized the significant performance gains provided by good class D amps when I replaced my Aragon 4004 MKII class A/B amp with a Class D Audio stereo SDS-440-CS amp  in my combo ht and 2-ch music system.  I quickly noticed the class D sound quality advantages mentioned above and subsequently replaced the 2 remaining good quality class A/B amps in my system with class D amps (an Emerald Physics stereo amp and D-Sonic M-600 mono-blocks)and attained the same significant increases in sound quality performance I described earlier.   
     Of course, it's completely your choice on which amp to use in your system.  I'm just giving you my opinion to try and help you make an informed decision.

Best wishes,
  Tim    

Tim,

Thank you very much for your input. I’m in a quandary now.
Based on your and Schubert’s statements, I’m considering canceling the Odyssey until I do some more research.

Tim,

I have canceled the Odyssey for now. May consider looking into the Belles Aria amp on Audiogram that Schubert referred to.  Problem is, it’s over ten years old.
What do you think?

Tim,

I have canceled the Odyssey for now. May consider looking into the Belles Aria amp on Audiogram that Schubert referred to.  Problem is, it’s over ten years old.
What do you think?

Richard

Ironically, the Dragon is arriving tomorrow.

They didn’t contact me until just now due to a death in the family.

Crazy Business!

Hi rvpiano,

     If the Red Dragon M-500 mono-blocks are arriving tomorrow, I suggest you just try them out in your system.  I think you're in for a very pleasant surprise.  You've got 45 days to try them out and there's virtually no risk.  
     I thought you cancelled the Red Dragon order.
     Both the Belles and Odyssey are good amps but my opinion is M-500 are a cut above both.
     I think I may be getting spoiled with my class D amps.  I've had them on 24/7 for over 3 yrs now.  I use them every day, I've had no problems and they still sound great for ht and music.  
     I'm curious to hear what you think of the Red Dragons.  
     Are you planning on trying them out?

Later,
 Tim

From the guys I’ve known people who play rock like class D more than people who play classical .

Aria? I saw a 350 and a 150A .
FWIW, I am running a 150A Reference MkII , new was $2600 bucks .
It’s7 years old and I got it for 1300$ as a 2 hr drive deal .
Good as new and sounds great and will for another 10 years at least .
I have a 30 year old plain 150 in my bedroom system that was recapped
and hard wired with a $500 buck AudioArt power cord done by AudioArt himself, one of the most honest guys in Audio , as a project that will be good for 15-20 years. Paid 400 bucks ,sounds great . If you lived around Twin Cities I’d let you use for a few months , you might be surprised .

I’m not rich or poor either .Just a retired old soldier and history teacher . I have a very good sounding system built on
the pay no more then half as much as new system . One exception was Eastern Electric Avant 8 tube pre, a true giant,killer and a few TT’s .
. Reason , only 50 were allocated for USA , $2000 .

Evidently Red Dragon dispatched the amps as soon as I put the order in but didn’t inform me because they had a death in the family.  So, fortuitously, when I wrote them that I changed my mind and told them I wanted them, they emailed me to say they had already been sent.
Interestingly, Klaus from Odyssey is giving me a hard time about canceling his amp, even though I canceled only hours after I bought it.
I’m definitely trying out the Red Dragons.  Hopefully, they’ll sound at least as good as my NuForce and I’ll keep them.  I really don’t like playing musical chairs with equipment.

Hi rvpiano,

     Which Odyssey did you order?
     Klaus should not be giving you a hard time about  a full refund. 
;If you paid with a credit card and he continues to give you a hard time, you can always register a dispute and they'll deal with Klaus and the refund.

     I'm glad you're going to audition the Red Dragons.  Compared to the Odyssey, I think you'll be pleased not only with the sound but also with the money you'll save on both the purchase price and electricity as long as you own them.

     Since you have 45 days to decide whether you like them in your system or not, you might as well just relax and enjoy the process. 
    Please report back on your impressions once you've had a thorough audition.  
Later,
 Tim     

I'm looking to improve my amp and  basically I'm in the same path as you,  but I need more time and money to pull the trigger.  So just a recommendation,  read about the Nuforce sta 200,  even I'm on your budget also this amp for 500 usd might be my  bet. If you can compare it with the red dragon please report your impressions. 
Regards 

IMO the NuForce sta 200 for $500 is amazing. It was very close to my  NuForce monoblocks, which I loved, that were four times the price.  Of course my preamp and downstream components had something to do with the final result.
As far as the Red Dragons are concerned, I just got them and can’t make an informed judgement. They’re very promising but not ready for prime time yet.
I would have no absolutely no hesitation in recommending the sta 200 though.
If you’re on a tight budget I’d definitely try it.  On Amazon you have months to return it, and If you’re on Amazon Prime, it costs nothing to return it.

First impressions of the Red Dragon:

At this point, very bright and revealing; Excellent definition and soundstaging,
Good bass control.
I just hope it calms down to a more subdued presentation.
So far, not as pleasing as my former amps.
Whether it’s just too revealing or it’s not broken in yet, I don’t know.
I have 45 days to decide what to do.

One more thing about the Red Dragons,

Records display none of the problems of CDs.
They sound very natural!
Maybe a different cable between DAC and preamp would do the trick.
But we’ll wait and see.

I meant cable between transport and DAC.

Unless you need a lot of power, a First Watt amplifier (used, demo, or new) would be a major step up for you.  I think the J2 is still in production.  I own the J2 and M2, and I have a pair of XA60.8 amps. 

All of a sudden, after playing the unit for several hours, the amp seems to have kicked in. Sounds much better.
Who new?