I like your tube integrated/turntable idea. Its exactly what I do. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 You would be astounded at how good that can be. But the major components are only a part of the whole. A lot of it is wire, accessories, and tweaks. A significant amount of the total system budget, probably about half. Not saying you should go that far, but do not leave wire for last. Don't plan to spend $10k and still be using freebie rubber power cords and patch cords. With speakers, you are right at my cutoff 90dB sensitivity. With that you can use just about any 30-50 watt tube amp. I did for years. Higher sensitivity is a big plus though. In your budget range I would be looking at Tekton Double Impacts. Far better speakers, far more efficient. Highly recommended. So we have: Double Impacts $3k Rogue $3k Rega $1k Wire and tweaks $2k. Admittedly, this system is a bit back-end heavy. That is, the speakers and amp are strong, the front end (turntable, cart, phono stage) a bit weak. Relatively speaking. However, there's some big pro's to doing it this way. Outstanding speakers and amp will make it super easy to hear when anything else is improved. The Rega has its own RCA and the Rogue has its own phono stage so you only need one power cord and speaker cables. $500 or less will get you a Master Coupler power cord, another $500 some darn good speaker cables, and still have about $1k in the budget for stuff like HFT, PHT, record care products, etc.
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Wow, thanks for a very detailed answer. Much appreciated. I'm blown away by your setup btw. The Tektons look awesome and reviews are great but I'm afraid they are; a. Too big b. Wouldn't pass the wife test :) Still, I will keep them in mind for if/when we move and I have a dedicated listening room. Also, thanks also for the wisdom on cabling etc. I thought to start with the major components and sort out "details" later. On another forum, somebody pointed out that the amp is too expensive for the speakers I've chosen. How do you feel about that? Is this a hard-fast rule? Background: As I wrote, I've been doing online research about different components. I've read some pretty good reviews about the MA Silver 300s that included certain words that picked my interest so decided to use that as a starting point. After that, I started looking for a matching amp and saw some recommendations. Also, I've been meaning to build an analog system all along so started looking at mentioned tube amps. Finally boiled that down to Rogue Audio and PrimaLuna. Rogue Audio is better priced and has more available power to drive the MAs, so landed on that. |
swissified, "Is this a hard-fast rule?" There are no hard and fast rules. You did not inquire about the cartridge for your turntable although it will be a very important piece of the picture. I see that turntable can be ordered with no cartridge, or with different ones ( https://www.audioadvice.com/rega-planar-3-2016-turntable.html ). The price doubles and performance certainly follows (not linearly, though). Monitor Audio Silver 300 are great speakers that you could probably even audition at home (Crutchfield!), if you do not mind the trouble of shipping them back. They are very non-intrusive in the room and come in different finishes. Your wife may be satisfied. However, at that price range there is a batallion of great speakers worth considering. It would be the best if, after reading reviews, you could hear a few of them so you get a feeling of what kind of sound you do like. All can be pleasing, but not all to everyone while they can all cost the same. Words in written reviews can mean different things to different people. Differences may be subtle, but important to you. Allocate another $1000 to speakers and choices will become overwhelming. Get the real equipment first and play with whatever add-ons later. EDIT: If the room is larger and you pick Monitor Audio Silver 300, you may consider a subwoofer, too. |
wecan help we have a a Huge selection and wealways have some good trade ins some good trad ins
Dave and troy a0dio intellect nj |
There's no one right answer to these questions because everything matters. Even the way I would do it myself if it were for myself or if someone were paying me would be different if I was doing it for "one and done" vs doing it to get started. Because one and done (which I have done for people) everything is very evenly budgeted out to maximize sound at that price. But most of us that is only a starting point. So the system I recommended has you with speakers that are by far the best part of the system, followed by a pretty darn good amp, and then merely above average phono, etc. This makes sense to me because it will sound awesome right now while at the same time giving you max upgrade flexibility. With really good speakers, cables and amp you could go to an excellent stand alone phono stage, or turntable. But you could also get much less speakers, pretty ones with WAF and try and make them sound good with a better amp like a Raven integrated. There's a lot of WAF speakers. What there aren't many of is DI quality sounding speakers. But your Rogue is a good idea because a) tube integrated and b) phono stage. The biggest challenge with analog is its really four essential components: table, arm, cart, stage. You could spend $6k on those alone and much less on the rest and yet still achieve excellent results. This is how Linn started back in the day, taking the LP12 to stores and hooking it up to their cheapest system and letting people hear it sounds better than their most expensive one. So its not just what you get now, but what you might get going forward. Those speakers, amp and cables will be as awesome if you wind up mostly streaming as if you wind up like me playing almost all records. But if you go records then you will be happy to have the option of adding a stand alone phono stage, or better table, or better cartridge. Or heck even a much better rack for the table. Any or all of these are great ways to grow starting from that base. If that is even what you want to do. That's the way my system got to what you see today. 16 years ago it was this https://theanalogdept.com/c_miller.htm Before that it was a McCormack amp on a board on the floor. No kidding. |
Ok Swissified, you have a large room and you want to use a tube amp on a budget listening to rowdy music. You are going to need very efficient Loudspeakers. I already know what you think too big is. Speakers always come first. Klipsch Heresy's should do fine. They are small, are very clean and neutral their only defect being a lack of significant bass below 40 Hz (just like every other floor stander near it's price range), they go very loud on minimal power and they have a very handsome retro look.
Rogue Cronus Magnum 3 will drive the Heresy's to an easy 110 dB no problem. This system is now above the Rega 3's paygrade. I would go with a Clearaudio Concept/Satisfy tonearm and put a Charisma MM cartridge in it. The Charisma in perhaps the best rock and roll cartridge I have ever heard. You would have to spend serious money on a MC cartridge to get one as dynamic. Easily over 6 grand. My Ortofon Windfeld Ti Cartridge, as great as it is can not keep up with the Charisma playing Rock and Jazz.
Down the line you can think of hiding subwoofers somewhere:)
Oh, and just to give millercarbon a headache Tekton speakers are garbage. |
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You should totally get the Double Impacts. Sound quality uber alles, and even the wife will eventually be won over with how good her favorite music sounds. Not kidding. Tekton has it down. Cover them up with dust covers if you must.
But if not then like me and Mike both said you need more efficient speakers. Heresys will be fine. They won't have as great bass as DIs but even DIs will benefit from a DBA and that will be on your upgrade list but at $3k you can put it off for now.
I agree with yogiboy its better to have a great turntable but that is one where I think you are much better off to start with something decent and learn. Because there's a lot going on with a turntable, a whole bunch of things make a huge difference and it just takes time and experience to know. There's only so much you can learn reading blog posts and reviews. Turntables and tone arms more than any other component you actually touch and handle the darn things and look at them up close and its really nice when you actually like all that stuff. This is something very hard to appreciate until you've been doing it a while. All of which is why I think its fine to start with something simple like the Rega.
Again there is no right or wrong just a lot of different options with each one offering a different set of pros and cons.
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The best advice I can give is not to follow the recommendations on one individual on this site, but to look for a measure of consensus. Being audiophiles, there will never be anything approaching absolute consensus, of course.
That being said, glupson is steering you in the right direction. I believe Crutchfield, Audio Advisor and Music Direct all have pretty generous return policies. Try before you buy. They're *your* ears. |
In addition to the idea of ordering speakers you can return, look to see whether there are any local audiophile societies or groups in your area, and then go listen to as many different systems as possible, before you start ordering speakers you might then want to return. Similarly, if you have established friends who are also audiophiles, go and listen. When you do listen, consider the ancillary equipment and the room you're in. Is it like yours in size, shape, window area, curtains or lack thereof, floor covering or lack thereof? All that stuff counts big time.
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Your room size/description and and where you can realistically place the speakers would help a lot...
Surprised anyone offered REAL suggestions (not really) sans this basic/important info.
DeKay
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dekay, I mentioned the very same issues related to the room, just one post above yours. We agree.
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lewm:
Yes, we do agree...
Tired of seeing WAY uninformed suggestions in the forums for specific gear/components, especially now that it is difficult to audition such @ local shops.
DeKay |
I agree with MC on the Double Impacts. Not a lot of WAF to them, however. I'd have to go with the Audible Illusions 3A preamp with MM phono section. I had one of the AI 2D's for 18 years and then the AI 3A w/ MC phono section for another 6-7 years. This tube preamp sounds very neutral for a tube component. The only drawback is it has no remote. I finally went all out on my system and got a TRL DUDE preamp which also has no remote. Get a chance to do occasional exercise instead of constant sitting--you'll have to change records anyway. The AI preamp would be a sincere upgrade in sound if paired with say a used Nuforce Ref 9 v2 or v3 mono amps. You could get used mono amps for close to $1000. The AI preamp with phono would run about $1100-1200 used. If you stick with AI tubes, the preamp just doesn't have stuff go wrong. You could find the Double Impacts used for about $1800-2000. With all of this, you could have the start of a super system. A similarly priced TT/arm would be the VPI Scout. Use very close to $1000.
Bob
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@swissified, welcome to The Journey. *S* (Mind the rocks 'n roots in the trial, I mean, trail....;)...)
Suggestion on the Spouse Approval on speakers...
-A clear picture(s) of the preffered speaker(s).
-A tape measure; obvious function. ;)
-Ideally: Ones that are available in different finishes...
-Promise ANYTHING....but follow through. *S* This may prove to be very important, unless she 'Loves how it makes Her music selections sound."
Don't giggle...it works.
Other suggestions I leave to the assembled...and it'd help if you suggest a budget for your intent. Don't fear starting 'small', part of the enjoyment is 'growing your own', much like other 'hobbies'....;)
Enjoy, and happy shopping.
J |
You guys are truly awesome, so much good advice and great insights.
I've had some other business to take care of today but wanted to say that I've read all the answers.
I'll ask further questions tomorrow :) Just wanted to express my gratitude for now. |
That's risky not able to demo gear. I'm sure you can find shops open and some by appointment only. Take a road trip. I would not buy speakers without hearing them. I owned a rogue 99 magnum long ago. It was a nice Preamp but not the most tubey sounding gear if that's what you are looking for. I had it matched with McCormack rev a mono blocks and Vanersteen speaker, I thought it was a nice match. Rega's are nice but is not the most analog sounding table to me. If your budget can go to 10k Find a used Well tempered Amadeus for $1000, VPI hw19 Mark 4 with a nice arm, used PS Audio GCPH for $500, older Pass Labs phono pre, these are monitors but I saw a used pair of Joseph Audio Pulars for $3000 or $3500 they go down to 35db. I saw some Usher tiny dancers for cheap the other day. Some LSA statements floorstanders maybe $1000 and monitors couple days ago cheap, those are killer for the money, can't remember web sight. $2000 or $3000 on an integrated amp, some Acoustic Zen or even some Morrow wire. All this under $10,000.I own the Joseph Audio floorstanders and don't think I will ever sell them. I think speakers are most important. Good luck, you don't have to spend 10,000 to get good sound it just has to mate well together.
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