Power cords or power conditioner

Wow, like all threads you have so many contradictory posts, but you can figure things out for yourself if you can return what doesn’t work. I think that @ghdprentice got it right. Even McIntosh wants you to plug your integrated amp into the wall, but notice the word "almost" in his remarks. Personally, I’m sold on Shunyata for power, but others look elsewhere, but with power cables, you are going to spend $6K to $13K on a conditioner and the proper cables just for your conditioner and integrated.. Now you enable the dynamics of your power amp and not dull the dynamics. For me, that’s not spare change, so I demanded a real noticeable..not subtle improvement. The problem here is how far do you want to take it? I still have to buy NR power cables for my DAC, streamer and phono preamp. I know that at $2400/cable I’ll have close to maxed out my system and I have bought into Shunyata’s Noise Reduction cables where component noise doesn’t contaminate other components. I purchased less expensive NR cables for my subwoofers and I think this worked well, but buying more $2400 cables is tough.  So the problem with conditioners/regenerators is that you have to spend a small fortune to do it right.

Power cables YES.

Power conditioner NO

+1 @marco1 that your speaker placement is probably playing a large part in this as your equipment seems perfectly capable of throwing a large, 3D soundstage.  I know you’ve played with placement already, but try this — pull speakers out another 2 feet from the wall and put them only 5’-6’ apart and toe them in so they fire just past the outside of your shoulders and move your listening chair back accordingly and see what happens.  If this yields a significant improvement try moving them out another foot (this is pretty close to how I have my speakers positioned to great effect) and see if it improves further or if you’ve hit the point of no/diminishing returns and go from there.  I have a feeling you’re going to experience a larger and more open 3D soundstage, but it’ll at least be worth a try and like you so aptly stated — it’s free!  Sounds like you have good PCs and while a good power conditioner can certainly help I’m not sure it’ll give you the level of soundstage improvement you’re looking for but always a good thing to add to your system regardless.  Hope this helps, and best of luck. 

Your power cables should be fine.

Power conditioners can do more harm than good.  Test by plugging directly into the wall on a clear day (no storms).  

If you insiste on a conditioner, get an inverter/rectifier with near-zero output impedence.  I use the psaudio pp10 and highly recommend.

While it might be your room, I'd try a better DAC.  I find the DAC to be the most important component in achieving the transparency and soundstage.  Never been a fan of the dac's that are built into CD players but I am not personally familiar with your luxman.

Jerry 

wd1099...i read a story at galen carol audio about everything matters.Getting my stands right,speakers balanced and spikes anchored was huge fwiw.Was ready to give up on my speakers...it wasnt them.

Why not both, power (distributor and cables) and room treatments. And honestly implementing room treatment is relatively inexpensive in the grand scheme of things.It just needs a lot of work. For me, I gotten everything I could possibly need, goods and advice, from GIK Acoustics. And of course, speaker placement, toe in, distance from listening position, etc. which are of course …. Free. Just some work.

From my own experience with real people, those who proclaim power cords and conditioners make zero difference, and room is all that matters, typically have zero room treatments in their rooms. They just love to bash cables. As they say, don’t pay attention to the preaching of a naked priest. Or something like that.

I've had good results with power cords, but not with conditioners. Easy to return a power cord if it doesn't work for you, so really no risk...

wrong a good power conditioners only afecting noise the right power  conditioner can dramaticallyimprove systems soundstage width and depth we run dedicated lines and the addition of a good power coproduced far. superior results out of our reference systemfurmans are a joke good units audience isotek audioimagic

we have tried most of these kinds of devices

Dave and Troy

Audio Intellect nj

dealer for audience isotek audio magic

Thanks guys!  I have DYI power cords on all my two channel equipment.  I used Oyaide Tunami V2 for the cable.   Not the best but far from the stock wire. So my power wires are not bad, just not up to reference level, if that is needed. 

As to speaker placement, trust me, I'm been playing with the placement for a year.  I've got them where they sound pretty good.  I did pull them out another foot from the wall today.  It did help give more dimensionality to the sound. 

I have an 80" TV in the middle of my sound stage so I tossed a thick blanket over it and it helped.  My center channel KEF Reference has a large aluminum face so I tossed a blanket over that next.  Helped a tiny bit more.   I think I'm on the right path!  😂 Total spend for improvements today- ZERO. 

My money is on a exhaustive speaker setup/sitting.Nail that and the rest is the easy part.Should be able to achieve some level of what your desiring.I went through this last 2 week’s,I havent had a power conditioner for years.Cd and amp straight to wall socket.It has produced some great results.I have a great sound stage before the addition of conditioner...as George said it just add’s that element of a "cleaner" signal... and fwiw mine will stay in for now i believe

The power cord to your amp will likely have a large impact. Given what you are attempting, I recommend trying an AudioQuest Hurricane. I would borrow or rent. These have become extremely popular because of their ability to add transparency and detail without negative impact of the bass of changing the tonal balance. They had a huge impact in my system.

A power conditioner is going to be more challenging for you with an integrated. Almost all power conditioners have a negative impact on current flow… so amps are usually not plugged into the power conditioner… but straight into the wall (direct line will also help). But the preamp and all other components plug into the power conditioner. Without the preamp plugged into the power conditioner you will not get as big a position effect from a power conditioner.

But to address your problem. Each of the things discussed will make a difference. They are additive! This is key. You may have to do all of them and slowly work step by step to get to where you want to go.

You want direct line/s

Top of the line power cord to amp

Power conditioner

You will get greater transparency through Transparent Ultra… although at greater cost. The new generation are better than older.

Careful running of cables… 90 degrees at crossing. Cable lifters.

I would pe patient… just slowly work one thing at a time and get it right. It is very likely you will get there.

Room first for sure.

I went with Shunyata power conditioners and NR Shunyata power cables. This changed dynamics and texture, but I don’t recall a big change in soundstage. There was a better image but not an expanded soundstage...like more air surrounding the vocalist. What I did with power was to purchase with 60 day trial, but in my system and with my power the Shunyata products worked for me.

2 1/2' off the front wall may not do it.  I'd try moving your chair back and moving your speakers out more from the front wall.  I had a similar problem and this helped soundstage depth for me.  Nice system btw.

@secretguy +1! If changing an interconnect or power cord brought a real sonic improvement it would be a wonderful world indeed! Alas ...

 

secretguy

1,023 posts

09-04-2022 at 09:49pm 

I have yet to hear a power cord make a difference.

My money is on “you’ve never even tried”…..

As others has stated before, its about positioning. Even with generic 'black' cables you should be able to get the 'stage' if you put the speakers (and if your rooom alows it) right.

Try playing with them, space behind speakers is crucial for 'depth' ,find the best angle, first 'aim' at the center of your listening position or maybe just little bit in front, or perhaps aim 'for the shoulders' (yours, in your sitting position), try different angles, but be sure to mark your starting point, so that you can be very precise when moving them next time. Mark the one you like the best,for fine tuning,even one inch can make big difference.

It took me few months, laser meter and lots of tape on parquet floor to get it right, with small two way monitors and in almost dedicated room to get it right..

Power cords and conditioners (if choosen right) will improve the overall sound, but not before you you place your speakers in a 'right' way...

In my direct experience, the addition of a good power conditioner/regenerator can and probably will increase the dimensionality of your system.  My PS Audio P600 died a couple years ago and NOBODY wanted to fix it.  I plugged my amps, sources, and crossover into a distribution block for a few months using the same cord I'd used on the P600 and damn!  The sound quality was quite diminished.  The soundstage was flattened with a depressing loss of inner detail, especially decays.   I didn't want to pay for one of the newer PS Audio power regenerators so I bought a Core Power Technologies  Equi-Core 1800 (the original) based on reviews.  It's much better than the distribution block but not quite the sonic improvement the P600 offered.  So yes, in my experience, and I'll assume your choice would be for a newer, even better power conditioner, such an addition could bring you a more 3d sound.

And, there's no doubt that a good power cord can and will get you closer to that sound as well.  I've been going the DIY route on power cords for years so can't offer any current recommendations specifically. I'm using some very heavy gauge silver clad copper solid core wires with either Oyaide 046 or 004 plugs to good effect.   I find my sound to be quite detailed with fairly good front to back depth, excellent lateral image placement and completely satisfactory image height.  Images have a nice roundness or fullness.  They usually occupy a decently carved out 3d space.   To validate my recommendation that power cords can/will improve the holographic imaging ability of a system, I pulled out all of my DIY power cords and replaced them with suitable stock cords (larger gauge on the power conditioner and amps).   And the results......flat, cardboard images not to mention the obvious reduction in detail.  Al in all, I wouldn't want to listen to it.  

Maybe getting a single high quality high current power cord and a good distribution block (make your own---its pretty simple and good outlets aren't expensive) would allow you to hear the improvements across all your components, not just the amp, until you get a good power conditioner as well. 

I have yet to hear a power cord make a difference.

Only reason I am asking about power cords and conditioners is I keep reading about guys claiming about the change in sound stage depth and width with the change of power cords and conditioners.  To me it doesn't make since, hence why I asked.  

With my current set up the Luxman D-03 goes straight to my integrated amp. For music I 100% bypass the Datasat.  My Kefs are 8' apart and I sit 8' from them, they are around 2.5' from the wall behind them and I have about 6' from where I sit to the back wall. .  I do have bass traps in the corners but that is it so far.   

Thanks for the advise.  I'm going to work on cleaning up my rooms acoustics next. 

Most likely positioning and room treatments should get you the results if it is possible in your venue.

I’ll have to agree with @ghdprentice here.

Cables and power conditioners can theoretically only help with noise. And all the stuff you are talking about is from room bounce and interactions.

Most likely positioning and room treatments should get you the results if it is possible in your venue.

It would be very helpful to see photos of your system and venue.
 

The placement and room are really critical. You need space and dampening. Of course power conditioning will help… but after you get your system setup. Mine has great imaging… see my system. I have five feet behind my speakers and ten or more feet on either side… no central obstruction.

1. Run your D-03X directl to the integrated.

2.  Stick to inexpensive units like Furman with SMP.

3. Yes to room treatments.

Here's how to guage how your room is acting.  Set your speakers up about 4' apart and sit 3-4' in front of them.  That's how your speakers would sound with a great room.