@holmz
I'm not technician to answer your about the power surge, can look at the pro who answering the surge from the YouTube video. hope it helps.
https://youtu.be/iigXmQgFO2I
It looks like a magic trick…
That loop of wire actually creates a coil, and the inductance will result is decreasing the voltage, and spreading the pulse out over time.
It is the same as a lightening spike on a roof, and then running it around the eaves to bolt it on to the slide of the building. Any lightening strike will see that bend in the wire as a huge impedance due to the inductance, and it’ll just arc in a straight line from the eaves towards the ground or to the somewhere on the cable in a straighter path.
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@holmz
I'm not technician to answer your about the power surge, can look at the pro who answering the surge from the YouTube video. hope it helps.
https://youtu.be/iigXmQgFO2I
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@wheelndeal1099, if anything I’d get a half decent power conditioner with a good power cable simply to protect that $10,000 Luxman amplifier of yours. Some say you don’t need them. But what if the transmission lines or the pole pig outside your house gets struck by lightning? Chances are that’s not going to happen. But you never know.
I’m a disciple of the “everything in a systems matters” church of audiophilia. From the wall socket to your brain, every piece of gear, cables, and interconnects, can affect your music listening experience. If you don’t address the matter of having clean power and minimal RFI and EMI running through your system, then I guarantee you that you’ll always be wondering why your music playback setup doesn’t give you goosebumps with the songs that you enjoy the most.
This article gave me a good look at your Luxman CD/DAC.
Luxman makes some really nice stuff! But before you go all crazy jumping down the power supply, conditioner, cable, rabbit hole, I suggest demoing a better DAC. To my ears I found the sound of Luxman DACs to be too polite. Very smooth and full bodied. Just not exciting.
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I won't enter an opinion for the idea of power cables/conditioners. Instead, as probably has been stated, do all that you can physically with the listening environment first. I should take the advice that i give here. When reading such books as Jim Smiths 'Get better sound' there are many ideas that can be tried out for free, and if they work as prescribed you are ahead of the game before spending extra money on other attempts to improve your systems performance at large.
Tweaks are fine, if you so desire, after the physics that can be dealt with are dealt with first.
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I enjoy music and have tried power cords and power conditioners.
I had a furman power distributor- perhaps more of a surge protector than conditioner. Then I tried Shunyata Venom NR10 power cables on my DAC/ network player and I perceived an impact on the lower frequencies being clearer and the reduction of ‘noise’. The volume would be at the same level but the space between notes was clearer.
I put a power cord on my amps and the clarity on bass notes seemed a little bit better.
Replacing the furman with Shunyata venom resulted in a drop in the noise floor. Overall impact was detail in lower end - seemed like I added a subwoofer because of the immediacy of bass drums, detail clarity during peaks etc.
Is my mind playing tricks and giving me confirmation bias - maybe I like how it sounds and listen to more music so there’s that
My advice is experiment and listen to as many systems as you can What’s the worse thing that can happen?
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@wheelndeal1099 Could you please reveal your source for "All power cables are DYI using Oyaide Tsunami V2 cable." I have been unable to source it in the USA.
Thanks!
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Whellndeal1099, if you are looking for a better soundstage I think you should try DSP instead of power treatments. Paradigm sells the Link Preamp for $199 and it comes with a microphone and their ARC room correction software or you can get a minidsp running dirac. If you want to try a power conditioner check out ADD-POWR.
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Saving a poor soul one at a time 🙄
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@holmz I never plug my amplifiers into power conditioners
Yeah @juanmanuelfangioii me either.
Many of them do not are more for the front end gear anyhow.
I seem be under the impression that you have quite stack of equipment, but I am not sure that is correct. If there is a certain amp that responds well to a cord, or doesn’t, then that would be kind of useful if one was putting together sort of spreadsheet for amps and cords.
And a similar deal for front end gear and power conditioners… or front end gear and cords also seems like it would be an aid.
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OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!! Thank you so much for your purchase approval! 🙄. Nobody should buy anything without your blessing 🤦♂️🙄
@thyname I see you are getting vexed again.
I actually was @vonhelmholtz suggestion to make sure it is returnable that I quoted.
So the OP has von H and myself in violent agreement on that part, even though we are coming at it from two differing perspectives.
Maybe the OP does not wish to hear that advice, but I do not need to seek your approvals to reiterate Von H’s sage advice.
If you want to urge the OP to get a cable without a return policy then you’re free to that… Don’t feel you need to get my approval first, just opine on his cord decision questions… just chuck what ever is germane to the OP’s topic, which coincidentally, a swipe in my direction is straying off of the question and appears like some personal beef, or you are getting too emotionally vexed when reading sage advice.
let it go….
just let it go…
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@holmz I never plug my amplifiers into power conditioners.
One thing that the power cord crowd likes to spruik is that the power cord lets the current in faster to fill up the capacitors in the power supply.
How is a surge protector going to allow that?
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I’ll agree that if you buy one make sure you can return it.
OMG, OMG, OMG, OMG!!! Thank you so much for your purchase approval! 🙄. Nobody should buy anything without your blessing 🤦♂️🙄
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… I think that we can conclude that you should buy your power cables, conditioners and regenerators with the ability to try and return if they don't meet your expectations. Also, you must be willing to spend big money …
And some that reach differing conclusion.
I’ll agree that if you buy one make sure you can return it.
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Given the spectrum of opinions, I think that we can conclude that you should buy your power cables, conditioners and regenerators with the ability to try and return if they don't meet your expectations. Also, you must be willing to spend big money if you have high expectations. I spent more on power than any one component and I purchased with 60 day return..but the benefit was not subtle. It is hard to spend money on that last six feet. It just doesn't make sense that this would make a difference..but it can if you go all out and not buy an intermediate solution.
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@rickysnit some of the (cheaper) power cords I purchased did absolutely nothing. But most of the other ones I own made me go through a "wow" moment, when placed on the right device. I don't think there's an universal power cord that works its magic on source and amps, digital and analog...
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@wheelndeal1099 "I have an 80" TV in the middle of my sound stage so I tossed a thick blanket over it and it helped. "
- I suggest you try diffusion instead (you could try any similarly sized uneven surface)
- Absorb first reflections on the side walls
- To finetune yr spark placement, try listening to only one speaker
- Regarding power chords, are you using good quality connectors? They make up much for the difference in sound.
Good luck!
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Sure, I'll pile on with more anecdotal stuff.. What is very interesting is the general and maybe overall support for power cables, but such a mixed range of support on cables relating to the actual signal itself. A few folks mentioned power conditioner 'no' cables 'yes', it's in the power arena I personally have experienced the least in SQ change either way - sure if the power cord is flimsy, absolutely go 12AWG copper or something, but haven't had these changes significantly impact..
What did benefit me in a huge way was ripping out a power conditioner I had - this thing acted as such a sound suffocator it was unreal. In fact, doing that and realizing the improvement it made me go the other way in maximizing power wire gauge all the way through the chain, building my own star-wired boxes w/12awg, and even adding copper outlets and plugs - while fun, none of it really made much impact beyond removing the power conditioner, it affected my DAC the most, like a blanket over the speakers.
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… you can try this inexpensive Novaris Surge filter pp10 with excellent noise & surge filter.
…
One thing that the power cord crowd likes to spruik is that the power cord lets the current in faster to fill up the capacitors in the power supply.
How is a surge protector going to allow that?
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@wheelndeal1099 I've never tried a good power conditioner - something to do in the future, for sure (if I still have money after energy bills and black market food, that is) but I've had some power cords having a deep effect on depth and width of the stage, amongst many other benefits.
My take on it however is that if you go for a power conditioner, you will still need good power cords... everything matters.
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@jasonbourne52 you keep repeating yourself, like those annoying commercials between two Youtube videos. Yawn.
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I suggest both are needed,
you can try this inexpensive Novaris Surge filter pp10 with excellent noise & surge filter. then also get another inexpensive decent power cord from iFi SUPANOVA.
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@paul_lindemann I'm beginning to think the same thing. I've added many things over the past month, and the over all improvement is small but improved in regards to layering. I think the biggest improvement was swapping out my interconnects and speaker cables. I'm going to pull the power conditioner when I have time and see if I can hear a difference with and without it.
When I demo'd my Luxman I used a $20k Aurender Streamer, so I suppose it is hard to expect a $4k CD player/DAC to give me the same sound. Either way, I do have it sounding really nice now. All of the little improvements have made a noticeable improvement over the past month.
For now I am sitting tight, but a Bricasti DAC is on my "to try" list.
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In MHO, power cables, treatments and room treatments will add nominal improvements at best (unless your room and current cables are FUBR : )
Perhaps a very good DAC can add some dimensionality and image layering? Soekris, Mytek, Briscasti etc Lots out there and most give you a 30 day trial.
Cheers,
P
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Had the same cables also for 15 yrs...good pairing.It took days/to a week for my zavfinos to really start to open up (bought used).Same with my venhaus.Dont over stuff your room...leave some liveliness imho.
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OP,
Thanks, congradulations. After transport and non-use… it can take a while for cables to settle down. I would give them at least a few tens of hours. Weird… I have been really surprised how consistent and long it takes.
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@wheelndeal1099 thanks for the follow up post! I would allow about 24hrs for the used cables to settle. I believe you will attain more depth and layering in the soundstage when you begin to address your room acoustics.
At some point you should also try Audioquest Tornado or Hurricane high current power cords on your Luxman integrated amp(get the latest version). There’s synergy with the AZ interconnects there, at least in my system.
Good luck and enjoy this journey!
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Thanks OP for the post. Good luck with your future mods. Yes, intergraded are in no man land for conditioning as all amps go directly to the wall.
Nelson Pass is at the top of my audio hero's and not only doesn't endorse any cable manufacturers, but he also disregards tubes as well.
Absolutely tune the room, positioning and equipment first.
This is NOT an endorsement for Denafrips nor does it address sound stage directly, just what naysayers want... some type of proof:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSN5UjCA4Zc
Audioquest's take on supplying power cords with their power conditioners:
Niagara Noise-Dissipation Systems do not ship with an AC cable. Why?
"The cable that feeds any power product is the most important AC cable in the audio/video system. For any power product to maximize its ability to dissipate noise, the attached AC cables must be Direction-Controlled to drain induced radio-frequency noise. AudioQuest AC cables include ZERO-Tech for uncompressed current transfer and optimal Noise-Dissipation. Further, our patented GND-Tech (Ground-Noise Dissipation) pulls RF noise out of any product it’s attached to.
When partnered with a Niagara power product, our Direction-Controlled AC cables create a complete Noise-Dissipation System, ensuring the most effective and efficient dissipation of RF noise.
We allow our customers to select the appropriate length of cable for their systems and to decide how completely they’d like to optimize their Niagaras."
This is not an issue here for most, but it is a long held fact that your best/highest quality power cables should be on your front end. Sub's benefit the least.
I do agree with several members here on Shunyata power distribution/power cables. They are a no brainer but far from my price range. I DIY all power cables.
An interesting tidbit from the manual for an Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner:
"The Niagara 1200 has a five-year warranty, but it was designed to last for over two decades. Provided that the Niagara 1200 is used inside a home, store, studio, or office with a reasonable climate (45 degrees to 100 degrees Fahrenheit, with less than 20% humidity), it can be left on continuously; there are no parts that will wear out."
While I live in Reno, NV where current outside humidity is a normal 17% now, it is 50% inside as I use a water cooler. I grew up and lived in the Midwest my first 40 years and <20% humidity.... NO WAY LOL!
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Cables have arrived- So the Acoustic Zen Silver Reference II XLR and Acoustic Zen Hologram II bi-wired speaker cables.
I bought these out of the used inventory of cables.com so these should be broken in. I was told to let them "warm up" for a few hours before critical listening. That said, here are my initial impressions.
The first song I played was Dire Straits Iron Hand. I immediately noticed the decay was better. These cables are also brighter, but in a very good way.
Next I played Norah Jones, Don’t know why. This is my goto song to test brightness. With the Boulder 866 this song was painful to listen to as Norah’s voice went from soothing to shrill. The Transparent cables her voice was great, with the Hologram/silver reference combo, it became just that much better. Her voice was more textured and the highs were more detailed. The Transparent’s were just a bit to rolled off for this set up. Honestly the Transparent’s would have problably made the Boulder 866 more enjoyable.
Vavaldi's Four Seasons Spring 3 (Max Richter) This is now the best I have heard this song from my room. Violin clearly placed in front of the orchestra. Now I've heard better (clearer separation) in dedicated music rooms but this is largely an untreated family room. For what it is, it really sounds great.
The soundstage may have improved slightly over the transparent/ Nordost Red Dawn XLR combo. My speakers have always disappeared into the room. Now there may be just a touch more layering and separation between instruments. I still don’t have that 3-D layered effect but I’m getting closer. I have sound absorbing curtains on the way for the windows that are in the back of the room. I have six large windows, and I think that is the first thing that must be tackled. I already have bass traps in the corners. Next will be dealing with first reflection point issues.
With all that said, my stereo certainly sounds better than it ever has at this point. Nothing has been night and day, but I can tell you the sound is a lot better than it was 2 weeks ago when I started this post!
Thanks for all the tips and advise so far!
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A picture of my room is right here on my profile when I post 😂. It’s a general purpose basement, a portion of it housing my audio system. It’s all how far one is willing to go on this hobby. If one is not allowed by the SO, or the proverbial “…. wearing the pants…”, then I feel sorry about you.
Speaking of which, this has to be lamest excuse one has in this hobby. It’s used so often, even by some with No SO whatsoever 🤦♂️
When the Mrs. is not busy, I’ll ask her if you’re right.😘
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Good power cord will make any equipment better.
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I use a Shunyata Denali 6000s v.2 with Shunyata Alpha XC v.2 to the wall and Shunyata Alpha NR v.2 on everything else. Also use all Audience FrontRow for Speaker cables with FrontRow Jumpers, USB cable, and Balanced interconnect.
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@wheelndeal1099
It seems as you already know the answer, room and acoustics. I would never have gotten where I'm at in my journey without starting from scratch and addressing both. All the equipment upgrade in the world in my old listening room/ living room would not even compare to my house of stereo current equipment. Long arduous process for sure, but unfortunaly nothing comes easy if you want to achieve the results you hope for. The easy solutions are just temporary bandaids. Either way you go, enjoy the journey.
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I have an unused family room in my house that I have been thinking about converting into a dedicated music room. Ha, as other have said, I can only go so far in my current room before I start getting push back. For example, I've received a little pushback on acoustic panels. They need to be "art panels" that look "nice". This is not a real issue other than "art" panels cost significantly more. Also pulling the speakers out more, which would be beneficial, would make it difficult to walk through the room.
For me the real issue with moving the music equipment upstairs is lugging it all up the stairs. Taking a speaker that weights 110 pounds isn't a one man job! I may pull the trigger on that idea though, as I could do anything I want up there.
@ghdprentice Good call on doing one thing at a time. I'm very guilty of doing many things at once and then not knowing what exact item caused the improvement. This is more an issue with my boat but I can see me doing the same thing here, now that I've decided to finally it get a 2 channel system up and running.
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It took a while, but using google “systems audiogon thyname” I found a room, that does not look like what my haus-boss would abide as a multifunction room.
A picture of my room is right here on my profile when I post 😂. It’s a general purpose basement, a portion of it housing my audio system. It’s all how far one is willing to go on this hobby. If one is not allowed by the SO, or the proverbial “…. wearing the pants…”, then I feel sorry about you.
Speaking of which, this has to be lamest excuse one has in this hobby. It’s used so often, even by some with No SO whatsoever 🤦♂️
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Nyev: "Lol…. I do get a kick out of the audiosciencereview channel. I find it amusing and utterly useless. "
Completely agree. It is not regarded seriously by those who like to listen to music.
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What makes you think I have a dedicated room?
It took a while, but using google “systems audiogon thyname” I found a room, that does not look like what my haus-boss would abide as a multifunction room.
Hence I assumed that would be called “dedicated”.
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and are not as fortunate as you to have a dedicated room.
What makes you think I have a dedicated room?
did upgrade/change some of the front end electronics to make them more visually appealing to the SO
Completely valid science applied mathematically 😉
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Thanks for the link @thyname.
Love to see your highly acoustic optimized specifically built scientifically optimized room too. Happy I could help somehow by posting a link. All ears. I love science
The only science applied was in the mathematics of avoiding hiring a divorce lawyer.
Many rooms have a Feng Shui feel that is dictated by the SO, and are not as fortunate as you to have a dedicated room.
I did upgrade/change some of the front end electronics to make them more visually appealing to the SO. (Smaller units, silver instead of black, and coordinated in look.)
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Shunyata just hiked prices of their power products..perhaps all products. For example, at M.D. Delta 15amp NR power cable went from $1000 to $1500. Pretty sure that some dealers haven't adjusted prices on their in stock items.
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@holmz : https://systems.audiogon.com
Love to see your highly acoustic optimized specifically built scientifically optimized room too. Happy I could help somehow by posting a link. All ears. I love science
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pcrhkr : great advice! Please post a picture of your system here under “Systems
Where is that “systems” tab?
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I recommend you either place the system in a better room or make the room you have acoustically neutral.
@pcrhkr : great advice! Please post a picture of your system here under “Systems”. I am eager to learn from you. I am guessing you have your own dedicated audio room, with a lot of acoustic panels? I would love to see what you have accomplished with your room. Thank you
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I recommend you either place the system in a better room or make the room you have acoustically neutral. You might have audio being canceled out due to reflections. I doubt the problem is with power. I use a cheap power conditioner from Tripplight that serves me well. You have excellent equipment. I'm Jealous. You can have the best in electronics sound crummy in a room that is not suited for it.
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Not to throw another dimension into the mix, but I recently sent my USB reclocker device (Innuos PhoenixUSB) from Innuos back to have the USB connector replaced due to a somewhat loose connection. I bought the unit earlier this year as a store demo so I guess the loose connection is a result of that. Hopefully they repair it under warranty.
I mention this because I’m absolutely floored by how much I miss not having the device in my system. I don’t think I realized how much of a difference it made. In particular higher frequency detail is clobbered, making snare drums and “air” seem rolled off and restrained. I’m noticing less soundstage depth for sure.
It’s crazy to think that I have all this excellent gear but I can’t be happy with it without this one USB reclocker device, having become used to my system’s performance with the device in the chain. Ultra premium streamers wouldn’t need benefit from such a device, but wow I sure miss not having it in my system! I hope to get it back soon.
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AZ Silver Ref II is a great cabie! I had these and the hologram speaker cables. As a matter of fact I had Matrix Ref II, Silver II, Absolute Copper (currently in my system). Had Lee’s Satori, Hologram and Satori shotgun speaker cables. You will like it. AZ needs a good break in of 200hrs minimum based on my experience.
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@wheelndeal1099 thanks for relaying the suggestion from TheCableCo. That actually makes some sense. That is exactly why I went with Nordost speaker cables (speed and transparency). But I found that Nordost Valhalla 2 power cords and USB cord removed a degree of bass energy (they were otherwise very good) vs other cords so I went with AudioQuest for power cords and interconnects. I’d agree that my mix is also a split personality but in my case it seems to work as I get the best of both worlds.
Good luck, and @ghdprentice ’s advice is spot on. Especially about trying to listen too critically when changing a bunch of variables. I’ve definitely been guilty of doing that! If you turn off your conscious analysis for a few weeks, the attributes the changes make will likely come to you instead of you having to seek them out, and your perceptions will likely be more accurate.
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