RCA interconnect recommendation

Something of an update. The Acoustic Zen Matriz II arrived just before Thanksgiving and I managed to get them installed although it didn't exactly go as planned. I had initially intended to install them an the Antelope DAC - the connectors I think are too big and touching. I'll try once gain. They are installed from the phono stag to amp and because of their heft have created a fair amount of havoc with gear placement...but there they are.
My very first impression upon hearing them was an oh crap moment and out loud I stated something to the effect of: Great, now I need new speakers (Totem Hawks). What I initially heard reminded me of the B&W 305's the Totem's replaced - Bright, too bright. But this isn't true. Arriving back from the holiday, I've spent some more time listening and there is jut more of everything. More and more accurate lower register especially.
I actually didn't realize how much of a difference they have made until I switched back listening to the DAC. The gap between the antelope zodiac and the analog side is now wider -  the exact opposite of what I was hoping to accomplish. That I can eek more out of my analog side -  that is just awesome.
Finally: I don't know if this is a thing but  I keep thinking the music just sounds more at ease....not even sure I can explain it.
I'll listen some more, have another go at trying to use them on the Antelope...and see. Not at all disappointing - very surprised actually by it all.
Thanks everyone

Cool. The sound more relaxed or laid back is a thing. Remember interconnects can take a hundred or more hours to break in. Typically they will sound bright with less bass and a bit unnatural at first. As they break in they get more natural sounding, less bright. Also good interconnects typically will make the biggest difference on the lower standard signal (Phonostage), but of course will have large impacts on all components.

Thanks ghdprentice. I think what I am also hearing is the difference between good,  really good recordings and not so good recordings. Playing some jazz tonight - all Blue Note series. Dexter Gordon's One Flight Up has always sounded superb, as does Cannonball Adderley's "Know What I Mean" and they sound even better now. Art Blakey's Just Cool'n never sounded especially great - and the gap is wider now.
the good, the bad and the ugly........truth I guess.

@smaarch1 

glad to hear you like the Zens! I’ve used many different interconnects throughout the years after selling the AZ matrix II and silver II years ago and recently came back to Acoustic Zen once again. They just let the music flow.
 

@smaarch1

One of the attributes of components and of a system which I found really really difficult to manage is adding too much highlighted detail so one’s system brings out flaws. High lighted detail can be very rewarding when listening to your system but gets in the way of listening to music. I got a pretty good handle on it about 20 years ago when I had a system I called my “reference system”. The difference in venue and mastering techniques were in my face… I enjoyed getting lost in the space” of a symphony hall, but it got in the way of falling into the music. This was not an ear bleed system at all. But poor recordings were emphasized as poor recordings.

I found that reading through professional reviews I could actually figure out if the component was going to enhance or detract from this tendency. Over the time since when I have upgraded components my system has improved detail and nuance and lot it’s unnatural emphasis highlighting detail. So all recordings sound better. It took me thirty years to figure this out and how to manage it. But it has been very worthwhile.

Hopefully, this is useful for you to think about. But, the good news, I think, is that the difference you describe sounds like new cables, and if interconnects have only a couple dozen hours on them, making bad albums sound worse will probably go away as the break in.

This attribute in combination with the desire to enhance rhythm and pace is what component by component led me to Audio Reseach tubed equipment. The music first with the detail in realistic and natural emphasis.

@smaarch1 Not to sidetrack you too much on your interconnect thread but wanted to ask for ya., Have you already been down the small-tube rolling path with your Rogue integrated yet? (i.e replacing the stock original JJ 12aU7 12aX7 tubes). Can be a nice improvement and will benefit you on your interconnect realization too.

Back in 2017 I recall several groups of Rogue Cronos and Cronos Magnum II owners were haggling with swapping out trying various NOS, RCAs, new-repro Mullard’s, and landing on PSVANE and Gold Lyons replacing all (12au7, 12ax7) of the small stock low cost signal and driver tubes and very happy with the results. I have tried a decent NOS collection myself (25 different matched pairs of NOS, including the best of the very best early vintage Mullard Blackburns) and NOW just run the newer version small PSVANE (2021+), quite smooth. Allows one to save off the rare NOS stuff too. My new theory is good small signal/driver tubes first and good caps inside the amp(s) before more interconnect upgrades.  Makes a notable and engaging difference with the flow of the music, fwiw. If you have not tried it yet in your Rogue, it can be a fairly affordable upgrade and change for the better. Best of luck.

@decooney  Thanks - no sidetrack at all. Yes I briefly played with a few tubes, in fact I have box sitting here of matched tubes - gold lions, rca's and a few others. I tried a reissued Mullard in the preamp spot and it was awful - not listenable actually....tried it again with the same result. I swapped out the JJ tube for a tungsol and I've been pleased with it. I'll get back to the tube thing eventually.
@ghdprentice  Thanks also -  I'll need to reread your post and think about it some more. Generally understand what you are saying - need to wrap my head around it.
@audphile1 thanks for the suggestion that drove me hear - much appreciated

Chen audio labs (WRT cables)

Hi OP,

I think you did the right thing assembling your components and then considering cables.  While I wanted to not believe more expensive (more than Blue Jeans) cables would make a difference, I learned, to my ears, they make a huge difference.  Like everything, it is impossible to demo everything, and everyone has their favorites.   I started with the Cable Company, and as discussed, I tried several types; Synergistic, Audience AU 24 SX, Shunyata Research and another.  Power cords were first, and I think they had the most impact.  I chose Audience, bought some from the Cable Company, and then competed my system with  AU 24SX interconnects and speaker cables used on Audiogon etc.

I really liked the resolution and smoothness of the AU24 SX.

Then I had an in home demo of Kubala - Sosna Elation cables.  Wow.  Bass and midrange excelled and the high end resolution was also great.  So I sold all my Audience stuff (easily) and now have a 'full loom' of Elation.  I learned that what you may think are very resolving or tingly sounding cables may actually be from a deficiency in the midrange.

I like copper way better (smoother) than silver, and have found that matching all your cables in your system makes a difference.  The Cable Company may not be where you choose to buy everything, but having three companies stuff at the same time is the way to go if you are auditioning.  Very hard to compare if only one cable at a time.  My thoughts...Ken

@fastfreight Yes agree with you and I may still audition some more cables from the Cable Company.
And yet another update: I played Bill Evans Live at the Vanguard on my TT the other night and it just completely sings. Then I switched the Zen cable over to the DAC (successfully this time). All I can say is Wow!. A vast improvement.
It was suggested to try the Acoustic Silver and I'm considering it.

Thanks

@smaarch1 "...Then I switched the Zen cable over to the DAC (successfully this time). All I can say is Wow!. A vast improvement."

There it is. For some, for better or worse, cables can/do make a difference :) 

I had the same “wow” moment the first time I put AZ cables in my system.  IME they do take some time to settle in, mostly in the treble region, but the fact that you like what you’re hearing right away is a good sign for sure.  As I mentioned earlier, I find the Silver Ref to be a significant step up from the Matrix ll, so I’d encourage you to try them if you can — buy used and you’ll have very little risk as AZ cables sell pretty easily.  For a while I used the Silver Ref from DAC to pre and Matrix from pre to amp and it worked really well, but I eventually went with all Silver Ref.  Anyway, FWIW and congrats on your new find.  Enjoy!

Soix Yes I will pick of an AZ silver at some point, maybe after the holidays. Other priorities are kicking in at the moment but this has been great fun

Silnote Morpheus Classic or Reference III digital cable and interconnects.

@smaarch1:

You have to listen for yourself-- no-one can tell you what will be best.

I've found The Cable Co. very useful in this regard.

Also, direct sales company's such as Audio Art offer good value and a return policy. 

Thanks @stuartk871, I understand this and thank you for the Audio Art reference. I was unaware of them. Regards

You're welcome, smaarch1. 

I just ordered a pair of A. Zen Absolute Coppers from The Cable Co. lending library to try out as a potential replacement for my current A. Zen Silver Reference RCA IC's. If I like them, I will be selling my Silvers. 

Rob Fritz at Audio Art is one of the nicest guys I've met through my audio dealings and I've found his products perform very well in my system. Of course, there are many other small, direct-sales cable companies. 

If you call and speak with them directly, I think most small-medium sized cable companies nowadays will let you return their cables within a week or two if you don’t like them. You just need to get specifics and details and then be sure you adhere to the return timing requirements.

@stuartk how do the absolutes compare to silver ref so fat?

@audphile1:

Haven't received them yet. I'll report back once I've had a chance to hear them. 

The Hegel H390 is both more resolving and less colored than any integrated I've owned and as a result, differences in SQ between CDs are highlighted. This may may it more difficult to choose between the Silver and Copper cables.  We'll see. . . 

StuartK also looking forward to your experience with the silvers

@stuartk ...This may make it more difficult to choose between the Silver and Copper cables.  We'll see. . . 

Good point and agree with your suggestion.  It can be system dependent, and results can vary.  While I have both in other brands I went from silver back to occ copper. Silver was great in my former system, not the case in a newer setup, fwiw. Just gotta try it and see. What works well in one persons setup might not in others.  

@decooney:

Agreed !  

The Coppers are due to arrive this Thursday. 

Another wrinkle-- unfortunately, The Cable Co. only had one pair of the Coppers  in their lending library and the Schiit Lokius requires two pair of ICs ( I locate it between DAC and integrated). This means I'll have to compare the Silvers and Coppers without the benefit of being able to tweak the sound with the Lokius. So, from my point of view, this will be a less-than-ideal test but it's the best I can do. 

@stuartk fwiw I obsessively test both inter-mixed and identical cables end-to-end from sources, to preamps, to amps.  In different types and orders too. While each cable is "not supposed to have a signature" according to some folks self guided rules... imo they ALL leave a signature good, neutral, or bad. Each pair of cables, including the in/out on the Lokius itself, and downstream cables of different types, will all impact the results somehow. Try different combinations and orders of what you have for now. It can be fun.    

You can try putting your best pair first in order and down-order from there.  Or, can even reverse the order of quality for a different affect.  I'm doing this now in a fairly transparent all tube system (tube DAC, tube Preamp, tube Monos amps), with same brand OFC copper IC pairs first up front, OCC copper IC pairs downstream in reverse quality order.  Sometimes my full loom of all OCC or all silver end-to-end is not the best.   The "blend" of the two types and orders can also produce a rewarding result too. Try it with whatever you got.   Best of Luck.    

@stuartk comparing cables without EQ in the chain and without tweaking the sound with an EQ is less than ideal test? 
I think you have it backwards. 

@decooney:

I will try the Coppers by themselves, without the Lokius and with the Lokius in conjunction with the Silvers, as you've suggested.

@audphile1:

Well, no, as I use the Lokius with most CDs, now. It makes sense to me to demo the cable in exactly the same way I'm currently using the Silver Reference. At least that strikes me as the most logical approach-- an "apples to apples" comparison

 I recognize that I can compare both cables without the Lokius in the system and I'll certainly do that but that's not how I'll ultimately be using whichever cable I settle on in the end. 

This is why I described the latter as "less than ideal".

IC's - I just went through all my cables laying around last week looking for what to keep and what to move. I thought I was pretty content with all things gold and was using Stealth PGS and Gabriel Gold Rapture. I wove in Jade Moontails and DACT Dual Connect gold, and my own pair of DIY solid gold cables. I still wasn't getting rid of a few things I did not like so I ordered a pair of Silnote Morpheus Ref 3 with the clear expectation that if I did not like them I would send them back under his policy. They sent me a 1.5 M pair of XLR's for the 1 M price of 395. These were already burned in. I put them into the pre-to-amp slot and there wasn't really any difference to the Gabriels. Then I took my head out of my butt and tried them in the dac to pre slot and the magic happened. They removed my smearing, improved bass clarity, and gave a brighter but more relaxed presentation. So I evaluated the pre to amp side and found the Jade Moontails the best match for now. I will be ordering another set of Silnotes soon for the pre to amp position. Hs combination of alloys really hit it out of the park for me.

PC's and digital: I use DCCA flat ribbon and Verastarr flat ribbon power cables and a Shunyata over-priced Sigma USB cable. I can't offer much in recommendations for those cables. The PC's are smooth and quiet.

Speaker cables: Silversmith Fideliums. 

There are often mentions of having a one-company loom from start to finish, but I have never heard why that would be helpful. It would seem that too much of a good thing might result. Not sure.

In summary, IC's for me were never about getting the next digit of purity out of copper but looking for combinations of alloys to give you the best of all metals like copper, silver, and gold. And to explore mechanical configurations that might offer some electrical advantages outside of the standard round wire in a twisted bundle. But the wire metallurgy has seemed to be more impactful to me.

Certainly take advantage of trial periods to try before you commit from the reputable dealers.