@tirebiter, You just described the effects of a "band aid", my friend. At once, the addition of your "squash balls" …. seems to achieve results one is looking for. This is where some make a big mistake. The definition of a "band aid" in audio terms = a product that seemingly addresses a specific problem at first.. but in the end, only has no affect on the initial problem, after extensive listening. Stillpoints, being a sort of 'ball 'n' cup' device, and given the material they are made of, defuse vibrations coming from all avenues, and expel those vibrations efficiently and effectively. This IS the difference between a brass cone and a Stillpoint product. |
@slaw @stringreen Based on the discussion thus far concerning Stillpoints and please correct me if I am wrong, I get the impression that the idea behind them is to dissipate vibration from the TT to the stand and is why you maintain that rubber between the stand and the TT is a bad idea, correct? If that is the case, my problem stems from basically both directions. I have vibration that should be dissipated to the base via rubber-less feet but also have vibration from my cabinet that I want to protect my TT from. So what I did today was purchase 3 squash balls that I placed under the granite slab in a effort to isolate the slab and TT from the cabinet. I guess you could say that I now have air suspension between the slab and the oak top. And the TT passed my first test, the tap test, where I place a record on the TT, do not start the motor then drop the stylus onto the record. I then lightly tap the plinth, granite and then the oak top. As is logical, the tap on the plinth is audible as is the granite but to a lesser degree. Before Squash Balls, tapping on the oak top was audible and now it is not. So it seems to me that I have made some progress. I did a quickie listing test and my tell there is clarity of voices in complex music. I use the Rolling Stones "Get Your Ya Ya's Out" for that purpose. If I can clearly discern Mick and the lyrics then I feel I have made progress. That was clearly the case this afternoon. So am I correct on my thinking concerning how Stillpoints work? @stringreen, I am thinking that you were looking for the same sort of mechanism by using the Bearpaws.... |
@tirebiter As far as your Thorens goes, I have no experience with that TT. As far as the VPI feet go, my Classic 3’s feet have the rubber inner insert that can be replaced with a Symposium product, but I have no experience with that. I use the Stillpoints Ultra SS feet. I had to modify the bottom motor cover plate so these would all sit snuggly to the tt’s base. I use 4 carbon fiber washers as the interface between the Stillpoints and the TT base. My guess is the absorbent material you’ve placed between the granite slab and the rack is not ultimately a good idea. These types of "band aids" seem to trap vibrations/resonances resulting is lack of ultimate transparency/dynamics. Your ultimate solution will be a completely different support structure. I suspect the air bladder feet may serve you well with your current rack/system? Your TNT is a different animal than my Classic 3. There are fellow members here with a lot of experience in upgrading TNT’s performance through the feet aspect. Reach out to @dgarretson , I always liked what he did with his TNT. I’m sure he’d be glad to help you. Keep me posted as I'd love to hear about your progress. Steve |
Thanks Steve, Yes the cabinet is a bit of a sore spot. Originally had it custom built 8 years ago when we moved into this house to hide all of the wires and boxes...a requirement of my better half. Not a big deal back then because I had not yet resurrected a Thorens TD 160 I have been carting around with me for nearly 45 years and was digital only. My options are somewhat limited but have resolved to experiment a bit by moving the VPI and B-Lab pre to a somewhat nearby granite counter-top and see what I hear. It can't be a long term solution but at least will tell me one way or the other what direction I need to go. I should ask now, do you think the Stillpoints have any sort of chance of helping given the current configuration or would I be chasing my tail? I haven't quite come to terms with the logic of installing what seems to me to be semi solid connections between the the base and the TT. So the two items that don't sit in or on the cabinet are the Lamm ML2.1 monoblocks. A big step up from anything I had tried before and they drive a pair of Avantgarde Duo Grosso horns quite nicely. Going back to vinyl has only enhanced that experience! Brock |
@tirebiter My Classic 3 has completely different feet from any TNT version. I've never owned a TNT, but there are plenty of people here who have.. some who have done well in their quest in a DIY version. I'm afraid that, when I read you're using the same cabinet/support for your tt/electronics...well...you know. You own Lamm equipment? Hum.... You need a great TT isolation, my friend. Steve |
@slaw Good to see you are active here....! VPI has a reputation for many iterations of pieces and parts and have to say, I am not sure what feet your tables came with. My TNT came with "upgraded" elephant feet. I believe they are the newer version with sorbathane cushions as opposed to the springs or bladder systems. That still says rubber of sorts in they system so I may have to go on a mission to find some Ultras... I do really like the Mk V platter, it has been a good upgrade. I am still betting the ceramic bearing is a big improvement to go along with the platter itself. Good luck with the shelf, I would venture to guess that it has been well thought out. I am afraid that my setup may be suffering a bit because of the cabinet I am using to support my TT as well as house electronics (other than my Lamms). It is heavy oak with 1 1/4" thick top but know some vibration is induced. Thus I have placed a 24" by 32" by 1" piece of granite slab on it for the TT to sit on. I have some absorbent material between the slab and oak but when I apply the tap test to the oak, some vibration does bleed through. A never ending quest.... |
@tirebiter Hi, I think @bpoletti said it well, except, I'd say tonal balance changes with those positives stated earlier to a degree. I'm close to implementing my wall shelf that will accommodate my (2) tts. I'm hoping this will be a positive thing. @tirebiter How's the platter working out? Happy Listening! |
@violin you can find Isonoe footers under my pair of modified SL1210mkII on this picture: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/36623354_2308505819167572_3047159123327057920_n.jpg?_n... But for serious turntables like my ex SP-10mkII in Obsidian SH-10B3 base the Isonoe is not a good idea, because they are not designed for such veavy weight. The best option in my experience is rare Audio-Technics AT-616 pneumatic footers (4 of them supports up to 60kg weight!). I think it’s an alternative to Stillpoints, the price of the AT-616 is much better: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33980119_2239456762739145_5580063266635251712_n.jpg?_n... |
Hi schiss My Turntable has Isonoe feet and is sitting on a Symposium Super Plus platform which sits on three metal discs which came with the platform. The platform is appx. 3 inches thick and is designed to remove vibrations. The turntable is a recently renovated Technics SL 1200 MK 5 which was completely renovated by KAB Electro. The sound is the best that I have ever had by a turntable. The sound was not as good before I put it on the Symposium platform. Now it has wonderful spacial qualities , detail, and clarity. My cartridge is an AT 33 Sa moving coil. This platform is not cheap and I have had it for many years. Symposium now makes platforms strictly for turntables which are a newer design than the one that I have. If you contact Symposium, you will want to talk to Peter who owns the company. i wish you great listening with your system. Sincerely, Carter i |
I bought a set of still points Ultra Mini Risers on a trip to a friend's house. Just for the fun of it, I put it under his turntable, which is a Project. He doesn't pay any attention to his setup and is more anti-audiophile in his attentiveness to placement. Anyway, I put the Ultra Mini Risers under his turntable (4 of them) and the difference was extremely noticeable. I then took them to another friend's, one who paid attention to setup details I imparted. And We put them under his NAD C320BEE and his JVC SL-Z1050TN player and the sound again was excellent. The still points work, but you MUST play with placement. On the NAD, it worked best with the feet behind the 4 feet NAD had installed. |
I have used first SP Ultra SSs under both a Bergman Sindre and a Nantais Lenco Reference. Later I used SP Ultra Fives under both. The Ultra Fives were far superior and as always four feet, whether SSs or Fives, are clearly much better than three. I must say also, that I never liked the original StillPoints or their aluminum units. |
Yes. I'm using original Stillpoints under my SP10 mkII. The Mule And the Stillpoint cones are directly over a Neuance Shelf. I haven't tried this plinth/TT with rubber. Fwiw I got the idea about using Stillpoints (original type) from listening in on discussion regarding the Teres turntables. Stillpoints (original type) were a popular option for a Teres. -Steve |
I use the original Stillpoints with Risers and inverted cups beneath my Teres 320 (85-90lb, unsprung) turntable. They provide a significant lowering of the sound floor vs. the supplied spikes, at the cost of a *slight* diminution of macro-dynamic punch and bass slam. As with most things in audio, it's a tradeoff, but they're a net gain for *this* table in *my* system to *my* ears. Would they do the same beneath another table, in another system or to another's ears? YMMV. P.S. Agree with Slaw regarding rubber(ish) materials beneath a TT, or anywhere near one. I've tried Sorbothane, Vibrapods and similar in various places beneath my TTs and around my tonearms. The results were decidedly negative: no sonic benefit but loads of added mud. I suppose YMMV, but having heard no audible benefit and serious sonic detriments in several setups, I believe the odds are against it. |
Hi, I use ULTRAs under a Kenwood KD500 (extensively modified and upgraded from all aspects), as well as on a VPI Super Scoutmaster. Excellent results with both. Everything in that front end better be right, or will hear it- good and bad. Spent the last 25 years in this business- last 12 years in manufacturing. Also worked closely with the people at Stillpoints. Good luck and take care, Dan |
