I have dedicated audio room 14.5x20.5x9 ft. Currently have Marantz Reference CD/Intergrated paired to Magnepan 1.7's with REL T-7 subs. For the vast majority of music I love this system. The only nit pick is that it is lacking/limited in covering say below 35 hz or so. For the first time actually buzzed the panel with an organ sacd. Bummer. Thought of upgrading subs to rythmicks but then I will need to high pass the 1.7's. Really don't want to deal with that approach.
Enter the Double Impacts. Many interesting things here. Would certainly have a different set of strengths here. Dynamics, claimed bottom octave coverage in one package, suspect a good match to current electronics.
I've read all the threads here so we do not need to rehash that. Just wondering if others out there have FIRST HAND experience with these or other Tekton speakers
You are correct this is a tough crowd but it's all about constructive criticism and helping each other build the best system for each individuals tastes.
And you are correct that many of us are space compromised and do try our best within those limitations.
But jefferey's setup breaks many rules in the "Audiophile setup manual" in my personal opinion and obviously others as well.
It saddens me that this proud owner of these very special speakers will not really hear the magic of what the Ulf's can do if placed in the correct position in the right sized room.
Are you familiar with the Sumiko method that I linked a few posts back? According to this method - in theory - there is no such thing as a "right sized room," but only how your speakers act in the room, and only by careful positioning will one achieve (thus conquering) the room's nulls, voids, etc., which might not equate to a symmetrical placement, yet an optimal placement, nonetheless.
Of course, much of the Sumiko method relies on the ears, but what better ears than your own to judge tone, timbre and SPL levels at they interact with whatever room they are placed in? In fact, the only negative feedback I've read about this method was that it's time consuming, and for a person who doesn't care for patience, like myself, that can be a problem. However, for those who have stuck it out, I have read from people who have reaped extreme dividends by using this method; indeed, some who were able to get rid of expensive panels and crap on their walls. That's because the method first requires the end user to take down their acoustic paneling.
All of this to say, I'm not sure there is a "correct" position in the "right sized" room. I know a dude who have Revel Salon2s in a 12x10x8 room, and while he didn't set up his speakers with the Sumiko method; nevertheless, he has a DEQX rig that makes the music in his room sound as if you're listening to analog tape in a recording studio (if you're familiar with that sound).
I'm sure that taste has a lot to do with it. Who's to say I would come over to your pad and dig the vibes you have going on? I might go over and visit Jeffery and imagine the trumps of the second coming, you know?
I've got a 13x12x8 room. I've ordered the mini-Ulfs. If I wanted to I could literally turn the room into an anechoic chamber. I've got the money and I've got the room. But I'm not going to do that.
I am, however, going to position the speakers about 2ft from the front wall, and 2ft from the side walls, giving me about 7ft apart from center to center of the speakers, and about 9ft to my listening position. Roughly. If the Sumiko method works.
In Jefferys defense, we all have stuff we have to work around, whether it be because the room is dual purpose, because our wives want it a certain way, or whatever. I happen to need to place my speakers both near a front wall and one of them near a side wall with the other not near a side wall, so that they will have different sound properties. That's just the way it is. Before I purchased, I ran it by Eric and even sent him pictures. He assured me it would be ok. I figure if the guy that actually designed the speakers said it was ok, it's probably ok. He has forgotten more about speakers than I've ever known. My situation is this. No matter what speakers I buy, they are going to pretty much have the same constraints. So I can say "I have constraints and can't put them in an optimum placing, so I should buy speakers that aren't very good because the sound will be messed up anyway", or I can buy some great speakers that might be compromised by the placement but at least start out at a much higher floor and therefore, since both will be compromised from perfect placement, I'll still get better sound than I would have with other speakers because they will be in the same place anyway. That was long, and I might have confused myself.... :-)
Yeah, see? How could Jeffrey *not* be offended? It would have been better to ask, "Hey, Jeffery, that's pretty close to the walls; how is your sound? Have you considered placing them in other places in your room, or are you even able to?"
Futher dialog ensues.
Personally, I wouldn't be offended, yet I would start second-guessing the hell out of my audio sanity!
Of course playing devil's advocate here, David, myself and Bullitt, have all heard from Eric and he's always said yes to any room placement, right? Well, one could say, "Of course he would say that! He wants to sell speakers!"
I'm not saying that's the case, nor that Eric would lie, but taken at face value the devil has the most radient face of them all. :-)
Most speakers unless specifically designed for near wall/boundary placement will sound better when given breathing room. Teajay I hope your post is taken as well meaning constructive criticism. Your recommendations can only yield improved sound quality I would think. Now if there is no further space then you simply play the hand you were dealt. This would necessitate strong consideration of room treatment of some degree. Charles
@333jeffery Please do bother. And I mean that sincerely. Your thoughts on this topic are important. And learning is a two way street. Can you share more about why you have chosen the speaker placement that you have?
I’m lucky in that my wife hasn’t pushed back on the size of the DIs, their look, or their now better placement out (somewhat) in the room. I know she isn’t crazy about these three things, but has managed to keep her peace.
Ideally, and as many have already similarly commented, I’d have the DIs (and most speakers, but especially those that are rear ported) way out in the room without anything between them. Just two speakers with the appropriate wall treatments to optimize the room. Speakers shine this way. They relax and breathe and open up. It’s like being given a new lease on life and one can imagine them jumping in joy because they are so happy and grateful for it.
Since @james_w514 has agreed to do the against the wall test, I’d encourage you to try your Ulfs out in the room free from the cabinet and walls. Should be easy enough to do and get a feel for what differences (if any) you are able to hear. You’ve got a great system with high end components feeding the Ulfs.
Eric was very clear in his communication to me, and has been consistent in his comments on not needing the DIs that far from the wall. I imagine he feels the same about the Ulfs.
I started closer to the wall and then chose a spot that is a tradeoff but does offer better placement (about 3.5 feet from the front wall). My room remains untreated (still waiting on the renovation to be completed...lots of delays) but I do have very thick and absorbent drapery on two chairs about 2 feet behind the ports.
Like James, I will also test, closer to the wall, when I need to move stuff around in the system. And then with the speakers pulled out into the room much more so than they are now. All this talk on placement has me interested on rechecking now that my system is fully broken in across the board. My experience tells me what the results will be...but I’m open to checking on this possible bias.
[PS. I’ve tried to post a pic of my system in the Agon system page but the handshake with the Agon photo loading software and Google Photos isn’t happening].
Here's hoping Jeffery still wishes to contribute to this thread. It would be diminished if that were not the case. I'd be interested in him experimenting with positioning, if only temporarily so, to report any perceivable changes. Many are aware of ideal positioning, but don't necessarily adhere to those ideals due to practicality. I'm not entirely convinced that he has to do that to thoroughly enjoy the Ulf's. Only one way to find out.
Jeffery, Based on the posts submitted tonight it's clear that people admire your audio system and certainly appreciate your contributions and input to this thread. I truly believe that Teajay had no intention of offending you with his critical but potentially helpful comments. I hope that you reconsider your decision to apparently exit this valuable thread. It is clear to me that you derive much pleasure from your home audio system regardless of speaker placement and or room constraints. Charles
Since I have nothing better to do, taking the measurements of the mini-Ulf into consideration, I mapped out my room for standard triangle configuration.
I’ve got 2.5ft off of the front wall. 2ft off of the side walls. From center to center of the speakers that’s 6.5ft, which is just a hair over Eric’s recommendation. Then that’s 9ft from the speakers to my listening position.
Does that sound good, or is there anything wrong with this?
Yup, you should be good to go! I would suggest a slight toe-in so the speakers are on the outside of your head. Both the DI's and the Ulf's gave me the best center fill and image precision with this small adjustment vs straight ahead firing.
That sounds like a very good start evolvist. As you may know it's good to keep the front wall and side wall different and I agree with toe in as teajay suggested. Others like Kenny fire theirs with no toe in.
Yes, the DI's and I suspect your new Ulf's will be forgiving of placement but they really sing when well placed. In my experience if you don't get placement optimized power cords, tube choice all pale in comparison (atleast to my ears)
Jeffery, I'm with Charles. While the intent was good, word choice might have been better. I'm sure there is a reason for your set up. I think some of us get so excited by room placement and what it does for our DI's/Ulf's people did not want you to miss out on what they are capable of. In any event, I respect that, in the end, the choice is YOURS. So hope you stick around.
I have just moved my Impact Monitors a little closer to the front wall (the front of the speaker is 2 feet from the front wall now). Also moved my listening position a bit more out into the room. The mid/upper bass has filled out, the sound is better balanced and the imaging is just as good, if not better. Speaker placement can indeed make a BIG difference-
I'm going to come straight out and say that I value and appreciate what @teajay wrote about speaker placement.
I view Terry's contributions to this thread as a remarkable gift...few reviewers are as active here on Audiogon, and fewer still are as open as he is here on Audiogon. He willingly offers his take on things, responds to our questions and is reachable, if need be, on topics and issues related to, and even those unrelated to, the topic of this thread.
His points on speaker placement and performance are spot on and helpful and I didn't find his language ill chosen; in fact; I found it sensitive and soft enough.
As I said in my earlier post, learning is a two way street.
Terry, if the opportunity arises and you need to kick me in the you know where...please feel comfortable doing so...the pain will be fleeting, but the learning just may be lifelong!
My two cents gentlemen, My DIs are FIVE INCHES from the front wall! Is it ideal? No, but I am very happy with the sound I'm getting. The base is not flabby, or boomy, at all. In fact, I sometimes wish I had a little more bass (Usually from poor recordings, though.) I think it is the rare situation to have ideal room dimensions, so we make do with what we have. This thread has been so civilized, for so long. Just wanted to bring it down a notch. :o)
+1 Buds. I don’t feel the similar placement of mine are causing any problems. I trust Eric to know his own product’s capabilities. And as to the earlier inference that as a vendor Eric may suggest things just to sell more products... two things. First, he has more business than he can handle currently. And second, Eric is not built that way. He enjoys what he’s doing and isn’t in this just for profit. Not by a long shot.
Bullitt, No doubt that your system sounds good with close proximity of speaker and wall. The point is can "good" be advanced to exceptional or even extraordinary sound due to superior positioning . If "possible" why not experiment with speaker placement and see what happens? Charles
When I initially got my DI's I didn't have much choice as to speaker placement and had them about 2' from the back wall, 2' from one side wall with no side wall on the other side. Not ideal by any stretch yet the DI's sounded very good to me. It wasn't until building a dedicated listening room did I hear all that the DI's had to offer. By bringing them well out into the room the sound really opened up with a much larger and delineated soundstage, better imaging and more detail and air around each note.
I think what we have here is a case of both sides of an argument being right. Yes, the DI's can sound quite good in less than optimum placement. And yes, they can sound even better given more space and with proper room treatment. For many aesthetics ( or your significant other) don't allow for pulling the speakers out into the room where they might sound best and luckily the DI's will sound very good in spite of the poor placement......but should you ever get the chance to give them the room they perform best in you'll be well rewarded with exceptional sound.
Whatever your listening environment may allow, enjoy your DI's as much as possible!
Just had over for a listening session, Mike Kay of Audio Archon who's a Tekton Design Retailer (now becoming famous for his killer power cords), "audio" Ezra who has on order a pair of DI SE's, and Micheal Wright the excellent staff reviewer for Stereo Times website to experience the ULF's.
They all agree that the ULF's are superlative music makers. I now have around 30 hours on them and they continue to blossom and open up more. I'll still stick to my statement that the ULF's have all the power, pop , aliveness of the DI's with a lot more polish when it comes to an overall silkyness/liquidity, tonality, and precision in soundstaging and placement of individual instruments on that stage. They are magnificent!
Micheal took home the demo pair of the DI's to get his take on them in his review system and compare them to his Wilson speakers as was talked about a few months ago on this thread.
Finally, Mike and I are in agreement that we both like, for our personal taste, the 2A3 tube more then a 300B, at least when driven by the Micro-ZOTL preamp. I never thought I would ever say a 300B would sound anything less then "natural" if it driven correctly, however the 2A3 just sounds more like "real" music and is magical in my system driving either the DI's and now the ULF's. The 2A3 amplifier is from Triode Lab from Canada.
Terry know I enjoy reading your periodic listening updates. What amplifier is Michael Wright going to use with the Double Impacts? He has the Wilson Sasha I believe nearly 10x the cost of the DI speakers. This will be a very interesting comparison with the speakers as the sole variable in his system. Charles
1) Ran the experiment of using the Micro-ZOTL as an integrated amplifier driving the Ulf's. It was great, just like on the DI's with the added benefit of more headroom/volume when needed! Again , this shows that the Ulf's are more efficient then the DI's.
2) Took the Micro-ZOTL out of the reference system and replaced it with a very good tube based preamp that I use in my second system to drive the 2A3 amp. This validated my assumption that the synergy between the Micro-ZOTL ( the powerful macro-dynamics-see through transparency-3D imaging-overall speed) and the Triode Lab 2A3 amplifier(gorgeous color/timbres-"meat on the bones" imaging) is what leads to the best combination for my ear's driving either the DI's or Ulf's. The system minus the Micro-ZOTL lacked the dynamics/life and sounded soft and took the aliveness out of the listening experience.
I wish all you DI's proud owners could hear this combination in your system, it will play at very high volume levels, is totally grain-less, accentuates the aliveness of the DI's/Ulf's, vivid 3D imaging and produces the most beautiful tonality/colors I have ever experienced.
Terry, It seems that the Triode Labs 2A3 amplifier/Ulfberths impressed your three experienced visitors in the large listening space. Nonetheless I suspect the 3 watt power specification is a formidable barrier for "some" to overcome regardless of the touted sublime sound quality. Charles
I do not use a DB meter to see how loud the loudest passages are when playing music. However, even massive pipe organ played at volume levels that pressurize my very large space are easily achieved with this combo. I get that owners that use the DI's in home theater systems are not going to use either piece in their systems. However, if you are driving a two channel music system there would be no rational reason not to least audition this combo. On at least three occasions, two with the DI's and one with the Ulf's, my guest listener swore they were listening to at least a 100 watt amp because of the control of the bottom end and the volume levels achieved on big band and rock music like Radio Head with no compression/attenuation at all.
So, if there is a psychological barrier I hope individuals would get past this power rating nonsense which Eric's speakers really bypass because you can drive them so easily, unlike many other full range box enclosure designs that do need watts/current to perform.
Hi Terry, Just to be clear I completely get and understand your point, been there and done that. However you have considerable experience in the audiophile community and know the popular held mantra of "the more power the better". I’m just pointing out that despite your very well documented listening sessions of various types of amplifiers driving the Double Impacts, 3 watt SET won’t cut it. "Just not enough power " in spite of your multiple power amplifier use with these speakers. I’m just making an observation based on behavior/psychology of certain (certainty not all) mindsets.
Further clarification, I’m not critical of those who possess this mindset. I bring it up because I sense your genuine enthusiasm with this amplifier/speaker pairing and just wanting to share this splendid discovery with fellow music lovers. You realize that the Tekton Double Impacts and the Ulfberths allow one to fully exploit low power amplifiers and especially SET. Unique speakers for sure. Charles
I feel like handing out cigars. I’m officially joining the Ulfberht club after talking with Eric today. I’m glad he’s plenty busy now, he deserves it. Less than 2 months ago, it took him 2-3 weeks to deliver my DI’s. Now, it’s a 3 month wait for the Ulfberhts. I don’t mind the wait at all. It’ll give me time to sell some equipment and work out my final signal chain. I know that this is a hobby of tweaks and changes, but it’s my belief that this very well could be my ideal system for years to come. Honestly speaking, I could have been completely happy with the upgraded DI’s if there was no such thing as Ulfberhts. I’ve had many "things couldn’t sound any better than this" moments with the DI’s.
One thing I have believed since first talking to Eric about the no-comprimise, full-sized Ulfberhts is that they are not going to sonically overwhelm most rooms. It's his belief that speakers don't work that way. It's more likely that they will visually overwhelm the room however. I'm going to have the speakers painted a neutral color that will match the walls in the room.
Btw, he mentioned that someone's Mini's were getting painted today!
Okay sports fans, here we go with the comparison of Double Impacts that teajay has been listening to with my Wilson Sashas. Keep in mind, my Stereo Times publisher, Clement Perry, is working on the Double Impact review and I don't want to get in the way of what he has to say. With that being said.......
Allen Richards and I got together for this listening session and as was mentioned previously, we were listening with the VAC Renaissance Mk V preamp, two VAC Signature iQ amplifiers run in mono ( so that's 200 watts per amp) and I'm running Asus laptop with Fidelizer Pro (maxxed out at the "audiophile" level) and a custom NOS DAC built for me by Gilbert Yeung at Blue Circle Audio. I had been using Klee Acoustics cables throughout but discovered another little inexpensive gem from Tellurium Q called the Black II that I have been using on the speakers. Mike Kay's Archon Blue power cords are used on the amps and the preamp.
Allen and I bought the DI's in the house and laid them down as we began to listen to music on the Sasha's. We each took two tracks to listen to, and once we were done, we set the DI's up, if you want to call it that. Nothing too serious. The DI's were set up with the side of each speaker five feet from the side wall, seven feet between the speakers and the front of each speakers was ten feet from the front wall. They were spiked. We re-listened to the four tracks we listened to on the Sasha's. Initially, the sound from the DI's was uninvolving, bass was diffuse from the midrange and the highs, and pretty much just not a good listen. The Sasha's were clearly the better sounding speaker.
I shared with Allen that before I passed judgement on the DI's, they needed to settle into the carpet with the spikes, that I needed to spend a lot more time setting them up, remembering that we had merely set them up where we placed them when we bought them into the house, and that I need to do more experimentation the taps on the back of the amps. We were listening to the DI's on 2-4 ohm tap which is where they work best with the Sasha's and I suggested we listen on the 4-8 ohm tap. Allen didn't want to wait until later so I made the tap change right away. The improvement was immediate and it was not subtle at all.
We started off with the four tracks we listened to on the Sasha's and the DI's and the music sparkled with life and energy. There was a sense of verve and reality, with the music seemingly being performed "live" within the landscape of my listening room. The Sasha's has these attributes as well, but not to the same level as the DI's. What's remarkable to me is the DI's ability to sound effortless like a horn speaker, have the ability to "see into" the performance like good planars, and the the ability to convey the life-like realism of dynamic speakers, all at the same time. Though they do a fine job, the Sasha's couldn't quite match that.
The Sasha's deep bass performance exceeded that of the DI's if that type of thing is important to you. I need to move the Sasha's to the side, do my due diligence and devote some time doing some serious setup experimentation for the DI's in my listening room (25' X 16'). One last thing to add; I noticed a lot of you like using the SET or small powered tube amps to drive these speakers. That's cool. The sound of these amps has been quite impressive at teajay's on the DI's and Ulberchts. I just want to lend my two cents and say that the DI's can sound just as compelling with 200 watts/channel as they do with the lower powered amps. That's just my opinion and probably Allen's too. YMMV.
Just to be clear on the statements I made about the DI's and my Sasha's a couple of months ago; the DI's, overall, did outperform my Sasha's. From the mid-bass up through their hi frequency performance, they were more enjoyable and more musically engaging than the Sasha's. The level of performance and achievement, especially in the all important lower mid-range to upper bass region of the DI's, is exemplary. Eric Alexander and his team should be lauded for what they have accomplished. To gain this level of performance is commendable for a speaker at any cost, but at $3,000??? It should have been interesting, sitting around the Tekton board-room table and hearing Eric discussing the lofty design goals he had for the DI's, then share with his confidantes that he could do it all for around $3,000 retail. I'm sure somebody snickered and said "Yeah right". All I can say is interested parties should get their speakers soon before Tekton figures out what they have on their hands and puts their speakers thru a well deserved pricing restructure.
Thank you! Such an important piece of prog! "Pictures at an Exhibition."
The think that strikes me about this video that even captured on a non-audiophile device (I'm assuming here) that the highs are extended, the kick drum is very clear, as is the snare; the bass guitar is very natural, and the dynamics are off the charts.
I love the grills on the Ulfs, too. I mean, these aren't the most attractive speakers in the world. The grills certainly help.
Now, I'm listening to Greg Lake's vocals cut through like ice, as if he was there in your listening room.
I'm very familiar with the piece, so I know what I'm listening for, even on whatever recording device you used.
Eric Alexander and his team should be lauded for what they have accomplished. To gain this level of performance is commendable for a speaker at any cost, but at $3,000??? It should have been interesting, sitting around the Tekton board-room table and hearing Eric discussing the lofty design goals he had for the DI's, then share with his confidantes that he could do it all for around $3,000 retail. I'm sure somebody snickered and said "Yeah right".
I'm not quite sure Eric has a "team" per se, and the "board room" might just be him and Karma sitting around a linoleum table having their morning coffee.
That is to say, from my understanding it's still a Mom 'n' Pop organization, but that means absolutely nothing toward Tekton's future.
You're right; people should jump on board now before these go through the roof.
We see quality audio companies fail all of the time, for whatever reason. We also see some rise that have no business rising.
If Eric could just find the help he needs to get his product out while people are getting hooked on Tekton, then he'll stand a great chance to raise is prices...and the people will follow.
I want to share my respect for the honesty/integrity of Micheal's "field report" of what happened in his system between the DI's and his Wilson Sasha speakers. He is my favorite staff reviewer on the Stereo Times website and always gives insightful and helpful information in his reviews.
His experience again validates how disruptive the cost to performance ratio is for the DI's, remember this demo pair is the basic model with no upgrades at all, and "snaps" any rational reason to spend mega bucks on speakers from companies, in my opinion, that grossly over charge for their product. I had a pair of speakers as my reference that retailed for 19K and Micheal's speakers retailed for 28K and each model was left in the dust sonicly compared to the DI's!
I believe if I was one of these major speaker manufacturers it might be harder to sleep peacefully at night as word spreads from professional reviews and even more importantly "word of month" in the audiophile world's awareness from sites like this one. There is an overall relationship between the cost of a piece of gear and its performance. However, many individuals who buy high-end products often believe that hideously expensive gear "MUST" out preform far less costly pieces.
Eric has snapped this equation to a point of no return with his paradigm breaking new designs. Eric's passion has nothing to do with profit, yes he needs to make a living, it totally revolves around the excitement of discovery/creativity when he designs/builds his creations and bringing great joy to people who love music!
If you can evaluate the overall sound quality of Jeffery's system based on what you hear on that video you have some extraordinary auditory abilities, indeed! I'll call later this morning my editor at hometheatereview.com and highly recommend you for the new staff writing position that's open.
Just having fun, hope you take it that way, at you comments on your last post.
"I love the grills on the Ulfs, too. I mean, these aren’t the most attractive speakers in the world. The grills certainly help."
To each, their own. I think the grills look quite nice and work well in Jeffery’s room. I don’t think he has any other option there. In my room however, they will be displayed in their full splendor. I have more cubic space and lighter colors to allow that to happen.
"You’re right; people should jump on board now before these go through the roof....If Eric could just find the help he needs to get his product out while people are getting hooked on Tekton, then he’ll stand a great chance to raise is prices...and the people will follow."
I admit that I had an innate sense of urgency when placing my order yesterday, I guess unconsciously considering wait time and pricing. I had a sense of relief that I was officially in the que after hanging up. This Sasha comparison is not going to quell the fires any.
I can honestly say that I don’t believe Eric has any underlying desires to increase his profit margins. When I talk to him what comes across is his genuine excitement for what he’s created, his desire to spread the word. I’ll interject on my own maybe a little deserved "I told you so" as well.
At the same time, how else does one deal with increasing demand versus potentially compromising product quality with increased rates of production? I’m sure it’s a nice problem for Eric to have. I’ll spare you all the Karma pun that just crossed my mind...
The challenges of piano reproduction came up yesterday. Eric mentioned he discussed this with Terry recently. I was just going through a string of different recordings of Bach’s Goldberg Variations, the vast majority of which are piano performances. I stumbled upon Mahan Esfahani’s award winning harpsichord recording of that work. It left me slack-jawed. One of the most powerful recordings I have heard on the DI’s. It simply filled the room with one of the most immersive, dynamic sounds I have heard. It was on a level clearly above any of the piano recordings that I demo’d.
Ok stop it with this crap! All these over the top accolades and better than $28,000 speakers hype. I can no longer take it! This stuff is nuts, just nuts, for a $3000 speaker. No doubt you are all part of a Tekton conspiracy to take over the Audio world. STOP IT!
You've got me worked up into a frenzy and I must try a set now. This is really the last thing I want to do as I am most content with my rig. However, I am blessed, perhaps cursed, with a strong dose of curiosity in life.
I know what you mean I've listened to vinyl of this Mahan Esfahani’s recording for many yrs.I have recently made the change to all digital and you can find this recording on Tidal for those that use it.
Congrats my friend on your purchase of the Ulf's They might be the last speaker you will ever need.Now the wait begins but it sounds like you have a good plan in place and can be patient.
Kenny, you may be right. I don’t think they would let me carry it on however. May have to check it? Even then I think security would want a closer look once it is viewed on their scanners? Not sure,.
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