I see a lot of threads related to managing and tweaking the ac powerout end of electronic systems. Much has been said about dedicated wiring, termination and even the right kind of extension cords to use. I work for an electric utility; and that's the extent of my credibilty here. The majority of you will no doubt be far more erudite wrt music hardware. Just a thought, though: domestic ac distribution goes thus: power station-step up-city-step down-subdivision-final step down. As far as the utility is concerned, you and all your neigbours are collectively the load for the step down tranformer. Any inductance/capacitance created by your neigbour running motors/tubelights, etc is felt by the lot of you. Additionally, the voltage frequency will almost always move around a tolerance from 50hz as the whole country turns on the air, off the lights - changes all the time as peaker plants ramp up etc. Nothing can change that- the frequency of the grid supplying your city is the frequency in the mains at your house. So what's my point? Well only that how much difference can the last 10 feet of cabling, etc make when the other hundreds of miles are outside of your control? And more importantly, frequency is one of the most imp parameters for measuring electricity quality (your expensive hand-coiled toroids are entirely subject to the f in the primaries) and nothing other than running an f generator can shield you from that. Methinks all the improvements you see from ac cord treatments are pyschosomatic. But that's cool.
What's this about 'chickening out'? Are we jousting? I only let this thread die because a> everyone's point has been made (and taken) and b> I lost interest because it devolved into general dialogues. In any case I guess issues like these are moot as they are experential and objectivity has no place (or serves any purpose other than to make people rant at each other and generally piss everyone off) here. I have no problem with that. I cant hear the difference though. But would love to try one of them PS Audio boxes on my system :-) Raghu
It seems like Snobgoblin chickened-out after October sometime. So we've all been talking to ourselves. I guess he was just trolling and not really interested in the music.
Redkiwi, thank you for your post. I quite agree that the only true test of whether something has improved your system or not, is your EARS. I have also have done some things with my system that some may consider excessive. I am lucky enough to have the room that I listen in, fairly close to my electric meter and circuit breaker box. I installed a dedicated outlet for my system and ran a pair of #10 wires to my breaker box (hot and neutral only) and a single, very large piece of wire braid directly to the ground rod that sits next to my electric meter. I did not want to depend on the ground system in my house. I float each piece in my system and tie all of the chassis grounds to the ground braid at a single point. I bought some Litz wire on Ebay and made my own power cord to float the equipment. While I really can't say I have improved the quality of sound in my system, I can tell you that I can't hear the ham radio operator next door talking through my system anymore. I was fortunate enough to get my grubby hands on some high quality #6 wire at work and use it between my Audio Research Classic 60 and Theil CS 3.6's, but I did purchase some MIT interconnects to go between my Oracle and preamp (Yeah, I am still a record fan). It all sounds great to me and I am happy :-)
I think I see your point Gmkowal, that theory can help us in focussing on a remedy for the most appropriate source of a problem. But I have not come across any universal theory that works repeatedly in distinguishing between the many options we audiophiles must choose between. Without a reliable universal theory, then any individual theory tends to tell only part of the story. For example, I can postulate a theory that explains why using a sorbothane footer ought to be beneficial. But I can use another theory to postulate that using a cone ought to be beneficial too. Yet I know of no theory that tells me that a cone will be better than a sorbothane footer, that cannot be countered by a theory that tells the reverse story. Only listening removes the ambiguity, or reveals the nature of the trade-off. From listening I tend to develop my own theories of course - like, that if there are two compliant materials in a system the result is awful - therefore use only one, and use rigid coupling for any other support interfaces. Of course I can use conventional theory to explain that this is due to correlation effects, but only my ears can tell me whether the issue is relevant and significant. My ears tell me that the choice of power cord is very relevant and very beneficial - I have said it before, on a par with changing speaker cables.
Gentlemen, I do not want to you to think that I think ill of anyone who would purchase that $400 power cord. I merely point these facts out to alert those who are considering the purchase of such an item as to the cause and effect some of the problems for which one may consider purchasing such an item. I merely wish to point out that before you spend your $400 please make sure that that $400 will remedy the problem. Some of the problems I have pointed out, can not not be solved by a power cord at any price. If it makes you happy to spend $400 on a power cord, God bless you. But would'nt it be sad, if one spent the money on the $400 power cord and the new power did nothing to solve the problem because it was a grounding or EMI problem. My point is simply this: try understand what you are trying to remedy and why. It could save alot of time and money and maybe buy you a better designed amplifier.
Gmkowal - let us hope audio is an emotional issue for all of us. You may be right that we should not fix AC noise problems with better power cords, but only buy equipment that deals with these problems (more effectively) internally. But if having bought the best sounding component I can reasonably afford, and then I find that $400 on a power cord significantly improves the sound - what am I to do? Refuse to buy the power cord on the basis that I am pissed with the component designer for not designing his product competently? That seems to be self-defeating. Complain to the component's manufacturer? Somehow I don't think they would listen. Perhaps you believe I am deluded about what I hear with power cords? But I have many years of experience with this hobby, and so if I am deluded about power cords then I must be deluded about most other choices I have made in audio, since I apply the same listening tests to those other decisions too. Since the delusion has led to countless hours of joy through bringing me closer to the music, I will take my delusion any day over your apparent blind faith that your theory explains everything. It is one thing to wonder about the reason why people report hearing a difference, and another to state that there cannot be a difference because your belief in some theories is inconsistent with it. I am a scientist too, but more freely acknowledge that scientific theories are blunt instruments.
You bring up some good points that I did not consider but I am still the skeptic. I whole heartedly agree that the larger the power cable you use, the better off you are! It is safe to say at our relatively low voltages of 110 vac or 220 vac the larger the conductor the less opposition to current flow or resistance (at much higher potentials you deal with the skin effect where current flows on the outside of the conductor only). If we look at Ohm's law, a current flowing through resistance will cause a voltage drop. The amount of voltage dropped is dependant on the electrical resistance (or impedance with alternating current) and the current flow. Any drop of voltage across the power cord is detremental to system performance and frankly dangerous due to heat generated in the power cord itself (remember Power(heat)= V (voltage drop in the cord)x I (the current flowing). The second point I agree with you is on EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference). There are 2 types of EMI we must deal with: Radiated and Induced. The sources of these type of interferences are common to our everyday life from vacuum cleaners to our television sets. Unfortunately the best power cord in the world will not help with induced EMI as the interference is induced on the power source itself. This is the case for a dedicated outlet for yours audio system. There are caveats with this also. If one chooses to use a dedicated outlet the ground at the outlet is the most important consideration. I propose that the ground wire that is enclosed in the piece of romex feeding your outlet may not suffient depending on how far the outlet is from your breaker panel (remember what I mentioned about wire size and resistance). This can be checked by by measureing the neutral to ground voltage under load at your outlet. It should be almost zero volts. If it is not there is a voltage drop and this could be a cause of noise in you system. Radiated EMI is quite another story though. This (in my opinion) has more to do with good design in your component than a very good power cord. Shielding, ground planes on circuit cards etc. have more effect on this than the power cord. The only rule of thumb here is to keep everything as short as possible. If the EMI is higher in frequency, shorter leads make a poor antenna to pick up this. Remember that if the interference is 1 MHz or less a sufficient antenna would have to be over 100 feet long. A power conditioner may help with some of these problems but I submit as an electrical engineer that fancy power cords and power conditioners are not a good substitute for good electrical design and a little thought. Thanks for the reply. Audio sometimes becomes an emotional issue, and it is my pleasure to correspond with someone who is willing to talk about some of the scientific principles behind these issues.
When I first heard of the power cord controversy, I was likewise skeptical as you are. Based on your assumptions, what differences could there be? The problem lies with your assumptions: 1. The power supply is where filtering of your power occurs. How does an amplifier know what to amplify? The answer is that it doesn't. It will attempt to amplify all signals presented to it. That includes an entire spectrum of radio frequency signals below and above it's normal operating range. Do you follow AudioAsylum? If not, perhaps you should. There is significant material on this issue. One "inmate" who like myself has Acoustat electrostatic speakers complained that something was causing his amplifier to shut down. He speculated that there was a malfunction within the high voltage Acoustat transformers. He later discovered that the villain was his old Monster speaker cable which had oxidized. It was now conducting high frequency hash which the amplifier doggedly attempted to amplify and overheated in the process. After hearing this, I examined the internal wiring of my transformers. Though my main speaker cable is new DH Labs silver wire, the Acoustat transformer has 15" of Monster cable internally. I discovered the same horribly oxidized wire. Once I replaced it, I was amazed at the difference in signal clarity. From Sade to Saint Saens and Madonna to Mozart, I am how hearing more inner detail. Similarly, a power cord can be quite effective at radiating RF energy. Better cords posess shielding that minimize this effect. 2. Manufacturers always install cords of sufficient gauge. Not. All wire loses signal to an extent. All components with anything less than 14 gauge cord is sacrificing power transfer. I will refer you to this more studious explanation: http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/13538.html Finally, one must consider one's point of reference. A casual listener will likely never hear any differences. Or someone who has a typical $2000 mid-fi system. The differences are readily heard by those who listen to music more regularly and those who have access to better equipment. Does your frame of reference include hearing what a $200,000 system can sound like on your music? It is both enlightening and frustrating at the same time. There is so much detail on discs most folks will never experience. Though my system costs something less than 10% of that amount, both speaker and power cords do make a difference. BTW, I don't (yet) have any $500 designer cords in my system. I have replaced four with industrial grade Belden 14 gauge shielded cable with quality Leviton plugs. Cost? About $15 each. I have dedicated power outlets for my system. Additionally, I use a Monster Cable HTS-1000 power conditioner on my front end components. The results are a cleaner, quieter background allowing more detail to be revealed and more powerful dynamics. Try it. You'll like it.
I challenge the fact that you can hear the difference in power cords. The job of a power chord is to supply the transformer inside your piece of gear with alternate current of sufficient quantity to allow your device to operate properly. Inside your component, the power supply converts the alternating current to direct current. The direct current is then sent to power your circuitry. The power supply is where the filtering of your power occurs. Manufacturers use large capacitors and/or voltage regulators in the power supply to filter any residual AC or noise. The power supply design of your equipment is much more critical than an expensive power cord. The cleaner you make the direct current voltage feeding the audio circuits in your equipment the better your equipment will perform. The only exception to this is if the power cord is not of sufficient gage to supply the current necessary for your piece of gear to operate or if the power cord does not provide a good enough ground path to avoid voltage drops which causes system noise due to ground loops, assuming your AC wall outlet is grounded properly.
Power conditioners , better cables & Power cords do make a difference... At the very least they lower the background noice, which may be the reason for a lot of the other noticed improvements. Surge protection is not a bid bonus too! I have a monster hts 3500 , the power amp goes directly in the wall! Audioquest quietlines are a nice item also!
Elizabeth - while current capability is an issue, one of the reasons why a dedicated feed works is that there are less connections on the line to pick up noise, and so one of the benefits of using the air conditioner's outlet is that it is the only outlet on that feed line. I am not implying you did not realise that - just clarifying.
Good lead Mike, i've checked out Equitech website. Your ET2R-Q is a prof. rack mount 2kVA black beauty! I will probably buy their balanced isolating toroidal transformer loose and put in myself the rest of the safeguarding and definitely a IEC950 EMC/RFI filter for the CDP(the "noisy" one). Read also that NEC committee had voted overwhelmingly for the inclusion in the next NEC publication of rules & regulation for wiring & earthing methods for the video/audio & "sensitive" electronic equipment. I interpret this as an implied official recognition of the Balanced power solution to mains common mode noise inherent in unbalanced mains supply. Just a word of caution though to all aspiring DIY'er, please get assistance from a good qualified electrical worker if you're not one yourself, and understand the NEC regulation fully before any attempt to proceed!! I'd do the same in my country with the correct electrical authority. Even better, buy it from the prof. equipment manufacturer for best assurance. Happy listening.
Brulee REf the ps power plants. If they benefit from improved ac power cords then I would suggest the stock cord impedes the flow of current. It would be interesting to hard wire from the wall direct to the unit with a dedicated circuit to avoid any weak links. Have you by chance tried this. Sorry if I repeated this message but it did not transmit first time. Steve
Garfish, I don't blame you for not wanting to pay a grand or two on a PC. I never thought I would either but I did. It was the best audio upgrade I have made in years.
Early last summer I had 4 dedicated outlets put in for my stereo system and also a dedicated ground-- one ground system for the 4 outlets. It cost $850. for parts and installation by an electrician. After doing this, music in my system became bright and grainy. I learned from Redkiwi that a dedicated system WILL be excessively bright and grainy, as that is the "sound" of the stock AC cords. So I auditioned seven different power cords and ended up purchasing 4 Syn. Res. Master Couplers. The improvement in music quality with the HQ AC cords was dramatic. This change took a system that was nearly unlistenable to one that is highly enjoyable. I should add that the dedicated AC and ground system noticeably lowered the music's noise floor and was definitely worthwhile-- BUT it needed the good quality AC cords to complete the upgrade. I paid about $225.- $275. each for the SR M/Cs (a couple had to be special ordered, ie one w/ 20 amp IEC plug, and one with a right angle plug) and feel no need to even try the obscenely expensive PCs. I'm a believer in good quality AC, and good PCs are just a necessary part of a good system. Cheers. Craig
Onhwy61, I agree that power cords around US$250 are very adequate for most systems. As to the ones costing 5 times more, I agree I would not buy them on 'spec and would probably not even try them - without a credible recommendation. I have always found it interesting that the US scene seems to be over-hyped on cables, yet the British scene is the reverse. A good example was the recent TAS that recommended systems where some included cable recommendations that rivalled the cost of the components. Whatjd - don't use the steel pins, you must get the Tubthumping Wakonda pure crystal pins dipped in virgin juniper oil, and only on the third sunday night of the new moon - check www.tubthumpingwakonda.con
This thread is a good one or me as I'm new to high end and have been researching the ac topic in search of a treatment for myself. Although I dont see why anyone finds this complicated. The ac from the wall "untreated" is full of RF and EMI. FYI this is much worse than just 15years ago with the advent cell phones, microwaves, cordless phones and the airwaves ie tv/radio, being chock a block full. The trick seems to be cleaning the power as best as possible at the wall. Then you need to treat it with respect from there to your equipment The best possible in the high end computor world is to use power regeneration ie . regenerate the power so in fact you are running off of battery power. Now you have virgin power so to speak and from there use heavily isolated cords and plugs. This would cost thousands to do properly to have enough juice for power amps but would be easier for source componets. When Omhwy61 doesnt hear a difference with highpriced cords it likley because his PS 600 is doing the job its supposed to. And all he needs from there is well shielded and terminated cords. In fact im learning you can make great cords yourself. A local high end dealer who has been tinkering inside every amp he has had for over 20 years as a hobbie recently went looking of a spool of speciality ac wire. From some where near Seattle he has a roll of military surplus wire. Nickle plated copper strands from a submarine constructor used to carry short bursts of high current. He uses hubble ends and a layer of insulation and a nice nylon cover and sells it for $100/foot Anyway he sells tons of this stuff. But the point is there is nothing stopping you from doing your own if you're willing to go looking for the right equipment. Question? I've read about some members talk about dedicated grounds. Could someone tell me if this is just more than a dedicated circuit. Cheers steve
Whatjg: No pain - no gain. We should probably add a disclaimer as well. "Do not try pins in the power cord yourself at home, ask for a store demo by a qualified professional."
You know...I did try the Voodoo thing, to get rid of RF, etc)., but each time I stuck the pins in the power cord, I got this nasty shock. Anyone have any thoughts?
Redkiwi, in my 11/5 post I did not state that power cords do not work; I said they were not a good value FOR ME. My experience is that power cords do make a sonic difference. Within the context of my system I have made a choice to address the problems of AC power by other, and I believe more effective, means. Obviously, my conclusions in this area only apply to my system and my tastes. A well designed power cord should only cost no more than $250US, yet I see products costing 5x (and more). I checked out one of the expensive PC wedsites and their explanation of what their product does was total nonsense. Now the reality is that their product may work in my system, but why would I buy a product, and an expensive product at that, from someone who I thought was bullshitting me? Power cords can make a sonic difference, but they don't work for the better in every situation. I trust my ears enough to know what works in my system. My advice to other is to do the same.
Onhwy61, I am not sure I am understanding your point. You seem to be pooh-poohing specialty power cables and saying that the claimed beneficial effects defy "understood science". But surely the understood science would include such concepts as the effects of shielding and common mode rejection - two of the most common strategies used in specialty power cables. You don't mention whether you hold this view, not only because of understood science, but also by having tried specialty power cords. My experimentation with trying these various products tells me a $35,000 system ought to not be using stock cords, and that specialty power cords (for me at least) have a more beneficial effect than power conditioners and filters. I really don't care whether it is voodoo or understood science (neither concept do I trust) that makes this so.
I'm currently using the PS Audio P600 model running from a dedicated power circuit. In the past I've used API and Versalabs products. Each of these products has made a noticeable difference in sound quality. I don't use any specialty power cords, IMHO they are not a good value (at least within the context of my $35,000 system). What upsets me in reading some of the above postings is how ignorant, and defiantly proud of their ignorance, some of the posters are. The fact is electromagnetic theory and its effects are really, and I mean, really well understood. If you want to use power cords -- go ahead. If you think they make your system sound better -- I'm honestly happy for you. I live in a free country where you can do anything you want with your money. What I cannot abide is the assertion that somehow the use of these products is somehow outside the realm of understood science. Trust your ears, but don't be ignorant.
I have the 20amp Equitech ET2R with the "Q" option. and a digital isolation circuit. It runs totally cool and quiet even under full load. I am not puuting much of a load on it.. There is lots of headroom available and I have never heard any compression or constraint due to p=lack of power. The transformer is HUGE. I have it on a dedicated line I ran. The differences using this unit was not subtle. A much lower noise floor provides more contrast and the music emerges from blackspace. mike
In the highest resolution systems, it makes sense to use the better quality PC's. Snobgoblin, why do we have to "draw the line somewhere"? If I spent $60,000 on a high resolution system, I sure as hell would want to maximize it at every level. If you have an open mind (and ear) then perhaps some of the more "reasonable" PC's might work better than the most expensive PC's, but as a consumer I am glad that I can hear the more expensive gear at a dealer as a reference. Also, IMO most of the "luxury" brands produced, be it cars, luggage, furniture, whatever, began as an intense labor of love by a passionate designer, and I think that the amount of "love energy" put into manufacturing carries a lot of weight for a long time, and is the reason why some brands (Tiffany, Porsche?) are still around. Why limit the process that brings innovation and ultimately trickles down to a reasonable price level? The research and production costs behind $2500 power cords will be available at 10% of that price at some point. The people buying those expensive cutting edge products are not by and large "suckers", they are just enjoying spending their money, and why not?
I agree with Redkiwi. i've tried many power cords, and they all sound different. If anyone else does the same, and they do not sound any different TO THEM, then that's fine. Just don't tell Redkiwi, or me, what we are hearing, or not hearing. I COMPLETELY AGREE that the order of difference when changing a powercord, approaches that of changing a speaker cable. I suspect that most anyone could hear this difference, providing that they are listening to their system and it's effect on the reproduced recording of the music, and NOT to their listening room functioning as some kind of echo chamber, where such changes (as AC cords or cabling) get drowned in the sea of low resolution. I've heard this in most of the systems I've visited, and in all the ones where there was not proper room treatment.
Snobgoblin: A $500.00 or $1500.00 cord is only worth it if you are willing to spend the money and can live with it (and hear it). You would of course want to audition the cord or have a return policy in writing. And you need not start with such an expensive cord. My cord retailed for $250.00 but was purchased for half of that. If the price is what you find upsetting then join the club, you will not find any arguments on this issue. Most IC's and speaker cables are horribly overpriced as well IMO. But some of the more expensive ones sure do sound pretty good and some do not, it is a matter of taste. I view PC's as a form of equalizer or tone control (the same with other cables). They all sound different because of their varied design philosophies which includes not only the materials from which they are made from but also the manner in which they are constructed. Synergy with the associated equipment is also a factor. With all of the talk of solder less connections on IC's it stands to reason that assembly alone can make a sonic difference, and why wouldn't this be true of a PC as well? After all these changes all alter the signal whether it be music or current. Your reasoning that there is a maximum level of quality that can be achieved in a PC that makes any further changes useless, is interesting. Who decides what this level of achievement is. If you cannot hear further improvements or any differences between the cords then I guess that that is the end of the road. But you first need to listen to the cords to get to that point. If I can hear an improvement in my midfi system then you should be able to as well. Try something with a return policy, it need not be expensive (like a LAT), but try something. PC's also require break in like any other cable. I would also suggest that you read "Son of the Circus" if you haven't already.
I agree with Mikem and Hiwaves. My DIY tweaks is almost exactly what Mikem describes them. Mikem, please post here or email to me the VA rating of your isolation transformer. I'm about to buy one but not sure what VA rating will deliver the transient peaks in music. My wall socket wires are large enough for 20A at 240Volts. If I go for full 4800VA, the transformer size would be colossal!wouldn't it :)~
Snobgoblin: Even modest mass electronics can benefit from a thicker gage power cord or even a hubbell plug. If you have been visiting audiogon for a while there are a bunch of us that dedicate time to AC power quality and cords...... and differences do exist. If you browse through old threads you'll see even long time evaluation projects like Carl_eber has shared with us his experiences on power cords and this facts (sound changes that are heard not seen) are experienced by many. If that wasn't the case I assure you that there wouldn't be a business for the guys making them and a time and money investment from the audiophile crowd. Suggest you give it a try. Regards
My intention wasn't to 'troll'... Bear in mind that I'm referring ONLY to 'High End' Power Cords here - Hell yes, ICs and speaker cables make a diff, I've seen it on my (decidedly pedestrian!) system (Arcam 6+ integrated with Marantz CD 6000 KI sig and Celestion 5 speakers) Sturdy power cords made to electrical codes and Good Industry Practice is definitely a requirement - ther's nothing new about this. Hospitals use good quality bits because that's the relevant code and stuff like X-Ray machines draw oodles of power. Fine, use those robust pieces, you cant go wrong. BUT we need to draw the line somewhere folks. I've changed my power cord out of necessity (UK plugs to India code) - I'm certainly not blessed aurically to hear anything different. I'll bet it would sound coarse if the grounding was bad or the plugs were corroded, but that's plain to see and understand. What isn't logically consistent is the magic a $500 cord can do. And IMHO the cord better have a degree sorcery from Hobbitt U. to fulfil its expectationas. Finally, that's all I'm saying.
After reading this forum for months now, I still cannot quite get over the fact that people seem to need an engineering explanation of why something makes a difference before they can believe there is a difference. There are two reasons for my incredulity. First, it seems to be paying homage to science, when the whole point of the scientific process is that reality drives theory not the other way around. That is to say, the scientific process is not about denying an experienced reality just because of a lack of theory. Second, an engineering explanation adds nothing of value, except to equipment designers. For example, if someone explains to me how a 24 bit DAC can outperform a 20 bit DAC, due to its ability to perform more dither or some other purpose, this proves nothing of practical benefit to me. It does not proove that all 24 bit DACs will outperform all 20 bit DACs, for example. It does not prove how much more money I should pay for a 24 bit DAC over a 20 bit one. In fact it tells me very little, if anything, about whether my musical enjoyment will be enhanced. So what is the point? For me - I have tried lots of power cords, and they all sound different. The nature of the difference is of a similar order of magnitude and musical significance as changing speaker cables. Anyone who spends large amounts on a speaker cable and then uses stock power cords has their priorities wrong IMO. This is what I hear, and this is all I need to know. Snobgoblin, you may choose to put your head in the sand and comfort yourself that those like me are all wrong. An alternative would be to listen to some cables and, who knows, you may remove all doubt. What is there to be afraid of?
Just got back into audio a short while ago, and would have said that PC's were the Audiophile equivalent of a penis extension. ...Then I actually listened to a few PC's. First were my local dealer's home brew - hubbel terminated, but no better than the stock PC's. Next I borrowed an XLO reference 10a - what a difference. This was far from subbtle. A student who does work for me wanted to know what I had done to the stereo, because it sounded "different" "better" "as though a sheet of paper had been removed from in front of the speakers." This cliche from a highschool kid of 16 years who is not into audio. After the XLO I went on to audition JPS PC's. I recently jumped off the deep end and purchased 4 Shunyata Research PowerSnakes. And YES they sound different (better IMHO) than any of the others I tried. In fact 2 out of the 4 I demoed sound differently on the same equipment (Sim Audio/Goertz/NHT). I too am far from any kind of electrical expert, but Calin Gabriel at Shunyata is. He makes significant arguments (via his website www.powersnakes.com)as to why well designed PC's make a difference in sound quality. While goblin and others may not experience the sound improvments I have the only way to know for sure is to listen - if you are able to keep an open mind. Mike
Even if component manufacturers put HQ AC cords on their equipment, audiophiles would want to change them-- now that the genie is out of the bottle, ie power cords have become an industry, and there many flavors. Steve McCormack once told me that he had done quite a bit of experimenting with after market cords, and he recommended API (about $200.) and LAT (about $100.)-- well, I tried the API and didn't like it at all-- the stock Belden was better. I haven't tried the LAT (yet), but I do have Syn. Res. MC on my McCormack amp, and it's excellent. My point: If cords were not replaceable, it would make a high end component less desireable. Audiophiles have become "spoiled" and now want to pick out their own "flavor", IMO. Cheers. Craig.
Dekay, try using sheets of aluminum foil. I've seen it used for shielding on both variometers and radios. Do keep it out of contact with anything carrying a charge!
On the subject of shielding which in a way pertains to this thread, does anyone know of a commonly obtainable material, hopefully sold in sheets that is good for this purpose? My amp has a separate power supply which is easy to place away from the other box that contains the rest of the amp (the input/output sections). However I would like to place my amp directly above my CD player (on a separate shelf) and would like to shield it from the power supply of the CD player below in which the power supply is self contained. I feel that this will help maintain the design philosophy on which my amps were designed. They are the Musical Fidelity X series. I also have two other monoblocks on order (that also have separate power supplies) that I will place on this upper shelf. I have to custom build the shelf myself anyway (out of MDF with a piece of fruit wood trim (persimmon) on the front) as the equipment is in an old Tansu cabinet and would like to include this shielding feature into the design. I do not know if their will be an audible difference, but I figure why not cover all bases when I am constructing the shelf.
Swampwalker: yes, and we let them get away with it instead of demanding better. Look at all the moaning and groaning we do about plastic binding posts... yet, what's the impact of plastic vs metal binding posts vs the impact of good EMI design?
If, that is correct mr.Goblin, why would hospitals use the highest quality filters and ac cords, stabilizators etc...etc, for the "vital" instruments and the equipment? To get as clean as possible, and uninterupted current! I don't know why, and how all this helps the overall sound of the hi-end components, and i don't care!(I guess "clean" current produces the clean sound?) But i know it works! Amen!
1439bhr- I think the answer to your question is that from the manufacturer's point of view, people probably won't pay more for the product if it has a better AC cable, and therefore anything they spend on upgrading the AC cable comes out of their profit. Even though high end units don't typically have large model runs, if the company is pushing out 10,000 units over the model life, that might be $10,000-20,000 over the model run. And most manufacturers have several models going at once, so to them it adds up, if there is no benefit in terms of increased income.
.....put in dedicated AC and ground last spring and stereo system became so bright the treble would "take your head off"-- NOT subtle. Then installed good quality power cords (SR Master Couplers) on all major components and experienced listening bliss-- also NOT subltle. Craig.
Sugarbrie makes a good point regarding differences in hearing ability. Humans have vastly different amounts of taste buds, making some people "super tasters". I bet that there is an audio equivalent. I think Carl is probably correct about the PS Audio 300. I have not heard it for myself, but regenerating power makes sense to me. Without posting a resume I trust my ears, and 30 years experience, and I have heard a modest improvement from my Monster HTS-3500, and significant improvement from my Harmonic Technology power cords. It also makes sense to do something about what you can control, instead of saying it is useless anyway, which seems to be Snobgoblin's point. Psycosomatic? Nonsense! Yes, expectation can cause people to project their desire into their judgment of a product, but most of us here are big boys with a lot of experience, think for ourselves, and are not victims of our imagination or industry hype, thank you very much. Hey Snobby, where did you go? It is only fair to answer Dekay's request for info on what products you have tried.
The real question is that is why aren't audio equipment manufacturers providing cords of adequate guage and proper EMI filtering at the mains input of their expensive amplifiers. Come now, how much cost savings is there between a 16 guage and 12 guage cord? I'd be surprised if it exceeded one dollar of cost to a manufacturer. So why, after spending several kilobucks on an amp or preamp, should I shell out more to make the device function at a level I expected right out of the box? And why aren't audio equipment manufacturers taking appropriate steps to shield and filter their components to avoid internally generate RFI from being radiated or conducted from outside the confines of the box? The engineering principles are long standing and well understood. Why do we insist on elegant industrial design (look and feel) but permit sloppy engineering of the contents? (I think this is one of the distinctions between "consumer" and "pro" gear... and although we may pay audiophile prices, it seems in some cases and respects we're still getting consumer mass-fi grade engineering). If the audio magazines want to go measure something, go do what the manufacturers should be doing: measure the EMI/RFI output and susceptibility. There are well known standards and procedures for doing this.
Your post seems to acually validate that just a dedicated AC line is not enough, since our neighbors pollute the power in the same way our own appliances do if we do not have a dedicated line. My Vansevers power stuff makes a huge difference and it is not my immagination. Mike Vansevers is an electrical engineer and pro audio guy, who, when he discovered he could affect the sound positively by altering the AC power, he changed careers and went into the power conditioning business. There are pages and pages of white papers on this web site that explain in great technical and non technical detail how power affects sound. On another note, photographers will swear filtering light improves a photograph. Is it true? We all have the same sun. Ever wear sunglasses?? Finally some people are born with better hearing than others; some will never be able to tell the difference.
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