Timely tip: don’t load the cartridge with more than 50 cents worth of quarters. Otherwise you’ll soon be playing the grooves on the flip side of the record.
The Hardest Naturally Occurring Substance on Earth
Yep - You all know from grammar school that is the diamond, which incidentally is what is used to make the stylus of our turntable cartridges. If it is so hard, and it is going up against some fairly soft vinyl, why do we worry about poor quality LPs damaging the cartridge or stylus? Sure, I understand the cantilever, but the actual Stylus? The old phrase for me is "Does Not Compute". What are your thoughts and insights?
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I think it is more to do with the actual pressure seen at the stylus while playing vinyl that wears the diamond out. And as for accidental damage it is not the diamond itself we often damage as that would be VERY difficult but rather the cantilever as you rightly say AND the adhesion of diamond to said cantilever.. That is what the klutz amongst us usually end up ruining, just knocking the diamond off completely. Not much fun when you drop what you thought was the needle just to see the arm go skidding right across the record....... |
But to back up to one of the OPs questions. Who exactly is saying they are worried about poor quality records damaging their stylus? Not sure as I have seen anybody say that and I know I definitely do not worry about it. I give all my records a good us clean but that is about it, a few scratches or slight warp is not truly going to hurt anything apart from the SQ. |
Just because something is extremely hard doesn't mean that a softer substance cant abrade it. When playing a record you have a single tiny piece of diamond traveling quite a distance just to get through one side of an LP, without doing the math I bet an LP may be at least a mile or better long. Add a little dirt in the groove and some non vinyl particles in the vinyl and it will very slowly lap the contact portions of the diamond. On a microscopic level there may be all sorts of stuff in that vinyl from the manufacture of it. One of the last steps of raw vinyl production is to extrude it like spaghetti and chop it into small pellets. That is the form of raw vinyl that companies purchase. It gets unloaded into silos at the manufacturing plants and long screws pull it up from the bottom of the silo and feed it into heated extruders that feed the presses. All of the contact surfaces slowly wear and shed microscopic metal particles. No where is this more evident than in a big commercial bakery as flour can be very abrasive. Mixing paddles and feed screws, all made from very tough stainless steel worn down till they are no longer effective. All that metal winds up in the food we consume but the levels are extremely small so it isn't a concern. I was shocked the first time I went into my favorite baker that makes snack foods. After talking to the machinist and realizing how slowly they do wear it didn't bother me. I think the main culprit though is just dirt when it comes to stylus wear and the thousands of miles it gets dragged through the groove. By the way, how do you machine a diamond? With other diamonds of course. Crushed diamond is bonded together and formed into grinding wheels. The wheels are contoured with a diamond tipped dresser and used to grind your stylus to shape. BillWojo |
If you have a decent LP collection, you might play any one particular LP 4-5 times a year, if it's one of your top favorites. On the other hand, every second of listening to LPs is courtesy of the diamond tip tracing a groove. Compared to any single LP, the diamond gets a lot more playing time. That's why diamond tips eventually wear out, and LPs generally don't if you take good care of them. Also, the typical stylus is made from industrial diamonds which may or may not be as hard as a natural stone. I personally don't worry about bad LPs damaging the stylus, per se. |
If it is so hard, and it is going up against some fairly soft vinyl, why do we worry about poor quality LPs damaging the cartridge or stylus? Just who is this "we"? Audiophiles, is my bet. So really your question boils down to why do audiophiles worry about stuff that makes so little sense? The question answers itself. Because audiophiles. |
.. folks who decide which turntable to play the LP on based on the condition of the LP. another audiophile nonsense, unless you’re not collecting vinyl in VG or VG- condition, which is impossible to listen to, even on dedicated turntable. Fair VG+ or NM are fine for all cartridges and they will not damage the stylus. People who afraid the nature of vinyl are digital freaks |
Ever see that hard thing fall off the other thingamajig it’s attached to?Unfortunately I had my first experience of this a few weeks ago, pretty depressing to watch the arm sail right across the record! Fortunately it was not mine, it was my daughters and a $15 needle for the AT cart on her Teac TN300 and she was back in business and hopefully a little wiser...... "Dad, I think there is something wrong with my record player......." lol |
If you look at the different tips, most are NOT as sharp as you think. The very tip is dulled just slightly and the convex, concave tapers from the tips are actually what ride the hi/low rigged of either side of, "The Grove" By definition in the machinist world, a keystone lan (wider at the top, narrower at the bottom) vary greatly from almost parallel walls, to the aforementioned keystone style grove or lan. The bottoms vary greatly also. Flat, convex, or concave, but it still has to shift left to right, AND the very tip, HAS to stay on the bottom. Mechanically that’s what is going on...Sharper, higher definition, is produced by thinner, sharper surfaces on a stylus, to the point, of abnormal wear.. Then it starts carving or shaving, the 2 sides of vinyl surfaces. One is ok to wear, one in NOT... So a lot more than just the tip is in actual contact with the LPs 3 surfaces and all of the contact surfaces on the stylus. Regards |
In that thread there are many folks who decide which turntable to play the LP on based on the condition of the LP. Poorer quality LPs are played on more affordable turntables and cartridges.All styli eventually wear out. It's not so much that I'm worried that a worn record is going to wear out the stylus faster. I'd rather use the less expensive cartridge if the record isn't going to sound the best and use the better cartridge on better quality vinyl. Yes, I'd like to make the better cartridge last longer. Does that "compute"? |
geoffkait, I would never copy your style. When I quote you, I make sure it is obvious poke at your style. Our styles are different. Mine is simply more polished and harder to find non-sense in it. I am not saying your style is not good for someone. Some people prefer McDonald’s to fine dining at a sophisticated French restaurant. |
As little as I’ve ever cared for their cartridges, Shure does (or, at least, should) know a few things regarding stylus wear: https://service.shure.com/s/article/stylus-wear-and-record-wear?language=en_US |
Do we need some marriage counseling here? If we get to the Jane Curtin-Chevy Chase banter, then I am definitely calling for a time out! :) So, the only way to check to see if one's stylus is at or nearing the end of life is to put in under a scope, correct? Then if you have a turntable that doesn't have a removable head, in order to scope your stylus you need to remove the whole cartridge, correct? Then, if you have to do that you need to re-install and re-calibrate your cartridge, which is time consuming (couple of hours or so), correct? I can comfortably admit that I have a dickens of a time even seeing my stylus and cantilever reasonable well with the naked eye given my age related lenses. Argh. |
Oh and if I may- the hardest naturally occurring substance on Earth is lonsdaleite. 58% harder than diamond. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16610-diamond-no-longer-natures-hardest-material/ |