Your distinction is trivial...
There is audiophile in a third category who did way more than buying in a race to "know" the most pieces of gear possible...
Some experiment with very good product at relatively low cost but learning the basic about mechanical and electrical and acoustical controls and this made the difference ...because the basic knowledge is transformative in a way most ignore...
For example learn how to control resonance and vibrations under speakers of any price and call that real audiophile knowledge...
Welcome here by the way...
My best to you 😊
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Read my answer to him where i corrected his kind post to me ...Truth matter 😊
And dont be afraid my rate of posting is constant as the fine stucture audiogon constant ... 1 post of mine for 137 posts here in the thread i participated only ...1/137 😁
This rate had nothing to do with any "superior" knowledge especially compared with many members here who achieved degree in acoustics or design or audio engineering from which i learned etc but with retirement isolation and taste for music content and aspects and therapy and meanings and interest in acoustics basic discussion ..
my motto is : audiophile experience is possible at relatively low cost because acoustics to begin with and at the end rule design and sound experience not price tags... ..
@mahgister You continue to demonstrate that your knowledge is unlimited regarding audio (amongst other things). Each time I read your posts, I am so glad that you choose to share your wisdom with us. Thank you.
What the?..holy crap!!.... MAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH, you have a fan! Now, the verbosity and repetitive nature of your content should increase 10 fold.
( Brace for impact lads, brace for impact 😂)
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i had known a dude whose thrill was collecting books not even to read selected one , only rare books, the item price was the ultimate criteria he never really read them from beginning to end ...
it was as you said :
Thrill of the chase.
I was interested by books all my life. Never for their price, rarity,or for a collection of them...
I read them that was my thrill ... Any subjects...
It resemble audiophilia nervosa when peoploe call you "poor and ignorant" because you learned how to rightfully install a system but this system is low price compared to most and you did not tried 40 amplifiers, 25 dac. 35 turnatables 50 speakers brand ... 😁
I learned basic acoustics that was my fun and my goal was listening music in ectasy ...
For me people who had not learned that it is listening experiments with the electrical,mechanical and acoustical working dimensions that give us S.Q. experience when synergy is there as the starting experimental point , people that think that to be experienced we must upgrade to our 5oth speakers the more costly the better who are ignorant or simply reviewers of gear ...
Most competent reviewers know what i spoke about and some even say it clearly as Huff who speak about gear to sell it, it is OK , but constantly repeat we can be happy learning what to do with a relatively low cost system .
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Well said! And better than me ...
In my usual delirium 😉i coined the term "minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold" passed ... It is when we listen music in ectasy forgetting gear...
You don’t have a problem. You just like to hear how the sounds of recordings vary on different equipment.
I prefer to figure it out once until all my recordings sound as great to my ears, and then sit back and listen.
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I strongly suspect how we come to our hobby somewhat dictates our goals and pleasures. I have a close friend whose system is constantly in flux. His passion may surpass mine. When he lived close by, he had three system in the mix and enjoyed them all, seeking synergy and fun. Recently, here, there seems to be more lecturing and scolding around how one should approach our hobby...with the zeal of their definitions. Really?
You are certainly right...
But the hobby to rotate pieces of gear is very different than my own hobby: which is learning how to optimize any system for the sake of music listening.
I will not scold anyone if we distinguish the fun of rotating gear for the fun of it and learning how to reach the best with what we have, nevermind the price.It takes a lot of time to optimise a chosen system in a room. If you learn how to do it alone. It takes so much time that rotating gear is not an option. Why ?
Because we are able to optimize a system room once the gear synergy choices are done once for all ...The acoustic-psychoacoustics process of experiments begin after that.
i want to listen Bach or jazz in the best acoustic condition... Rotating gear is not my hobby... Anyway i dont have this budget... And basic knowledge made this useless for most people because a relatively good system well installed , mechanically, electrically and acoustically give us a relative ectasy...
And also give me with what i learned 100,000 bucks and i will create one of the great system easily but with one or two years work and experiment in a dedicated room . Being there at the end, why would i rotate pieces of gear ?😁
Unsatisfaction comes from frustration with an evident acoustic defect or gear synergy defect easy to spot and correct..
Unsatisfaction can come with boring sound room/system when the acoustic balance and the synergy is very wrong and the acoustic defect not evident to identify because there is no dedicated acoustic control anyway ..
Part of the solution can be changing the gear synergy if it is not there, but certainly not rotating gear in a race toward a "perfection" which we thank God for his inexistence as an hamster in a wheel happy to go nowhere for the fun of it and thanking God that no end location exist ....
Acoustics rule my hobby and fun ...music is the end station for me...
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@mahgister You continue to demonstrate that your knowledge is unlimited regarding audio (amongst other things). Each time I read your posts, I am so glad that you choose to share your wisdom with us. Thank you.
i am very happy for your praise but,....
I must correct it for the sake of truth :
Many here as atmasphere, erik_squires, rodman9999, GHprentice, mikelavigne and many others had more knowledge than me on many aspects of audio if not all...
I know almost nothing but i learned the basic ... By experiments from complete ignorance...
The little i know is well grounded in acoustics ...
Thats all ...
I only know basic...
Not refined audio knowledge as the Atmasphere by his job as engineer and mike lavigne by his complete audiophile journey...
Thank you for your gentle post for me...
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I research this topic. I’m a consumer psychologist and marketing professor at the University of Michigan. In the consumer psychology literature, there are two main explanations for this behavior -- one more positive and the other more negative. But they overlap and both have elements of truth to them.
The positive spin: variety-seeking behavior and intrinsic needs. Variety seeking behavior is a fancy way of saying people like to try new stuff. In one study, wine lovers were interviewed as they were buying wine. They were often buying new wines they hadn’t tried before. They usually believed that they would enjoy the taste of the new wine less than their favorite wine at the same price. So why buy it instead of their favorite? The best explanation is that they got two different forms of enjoyment from the wine: one from the taste, and a second from the adventure of learning about new wines. So their favorite wine might be (taste = 9 pleasure units; new experience = 0 pleasure units for a total of 9) but the new wine might be (taste = 7 pleasure units, new experience = 3 pleasure units; for a total of 10). So even though they expected to get less taste pleasure from the new wine, their total enjoyment would be higher than if they bought their favorite wine. The analogy is pretty clear.
This also ties into the psychology literature on Self-determination Theory, AKA intrinsic vs extrinsic needs. The relevant point here is that people have an intrinsic need to learn and grow. Trying new things helps us do this. So in this light, swaping out your equipment is part of the virtuous endeavor of learning and growing as a person ;-).
in this type of explanation, listening to music is only part of the pleasure we get from our hobby. Contrary to the slogan that "it is all about the music," this theory suggests that it’s partly about the music and partly about the pleasure we take in learning about and using the equipment itself. In this way we are a little bit like watch collectors for whom it’s really not "all about just keeping accurate time." It’s mostly about how cool and interesting the watches are. Some audiophiles don’t like to hear this because it sounds crass and materialistic compared to the elevated pursuit of music as art. But we don’t need to see it in a negative light. And we’ll be happier if we are honest with ourselves about how and why we enjoy our hobby (and why we are reading this listserve right now instead of a listserve on music).
Negative spin: it’s addictive behavior. To make a long story really short, this point of view says that evolution set up our brain to reward us with dopamine when we acquire a new useful resource. As we get into our hobby, our brain gets accustomed to these dopamine hits. Eventually, they become a motivation on their own in ways that aren’t beneficial to us. We see this in all sorts of areas of life including shopping for all sorts of different products.
In your post or book it lack a neutral spin not centered on gear acquisition variety seeking behaviour nor on the addictive increasing habit of buying gear...
NEUTRAL SPIN : trying to look for the best balance ratio between all acoustics factors and parameters of the relation between psychoacoustics principle and any system at any cost in a specific room ...
The neutral spin is grounded in acoustic not on piece of gear obsession..
So many audiophiles are rational in their behavior , i am one ... 😊 i apologize for my self promoting... 😁
There is an audiophile hobby centered on buying the most possible of gear pieces possible, a common traits of reviewers , sellers and gear obsessed people often correlated with acoustics ignorance which they confuse with few panels on a wall.....
No acoustician suffer generally from these positive and negative spin habits, neither any rational audiophile... Music then stay for them first and last as giving dopamine not the gear possible and often frustrating race toward upgrades ...
i am in ectasy right now without need of gear piece because my system is balanced acoustically... The possible gear upgrade exist but not so strongly attractive...
Any obsession is born from or/and reflect an unbalanced mode of attention.
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If instead of insulting me you go on the Jazz thread, on the piano thread, On the thread about A.I. and music, on the thread "The Mystery Of Sound Is Mysticism"
Not one of my posts is repetition but new information each time...
i invite everybody to verify...
Now when i spoke about system/room and the way to adress the acoustic perceiving desired experience i did not as most people recommend the gear fad of the year or my own gear... You call my insistance on acoustic truth "bla Bla" confusing acoustics with room acoustic..
Someone of bad faith impatient with a non english speaker like me whom you patronized without end for the last 4 years in your cold hypocrital way cannot be surprized if i am less patient with him today... I answered your lies and insults about me...
yes i had much time, i am retired , i like all people here and i offer what i can to help...
But after 4 years with you patronizing my posts and your last insults i feel right to describe your meanness ..
You’re a time-waster. You’re too old to learn self-control. Pity.
Anybody able to offer a great deal of information here is not a "time waster"...Sorry...
I am old yes but what about your own "self control" for 4 years of harassment about my posts numbers or content my dear friend ? did you forgot that ?
For 4 years me i replied to all of your post politely by the way ...
Buy a mirror...
I do not pity you...
I do not pity you as you can pity me sorry, i do not pity patronizing mean people sorry ... I despise them ...
i like the truth ...
I will ask you a question hilde45 :
why instead of pity me in public did you say nothing save insult after i posted about one of the greatest discovery in Acoustic this YEAR and put links to it and to many other articles and a book about its meaning ?
Where is you brain going ?
Anybody can go there and see i dont lie , i put a great deal of important information about a discovery in acoustic which make the news this month "Pythagoras is wrong "...The thread is here : "The Mystery Of Sound Is Mysticism"
Anybody will read there among many new very important information your patronizing insult to me as an answer ..
Good luck...
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My post is not about my happiness it is about the way we must experiment and study concepts in acoustics ( no not mere room acoustic Hilde45) BEFORE buying gear pieces call upgrade ...
There is only one way to install a system....
A race toward buying the costlier piece of gear is not the solution... because we must understand how to install anything before throwing money for costlier piece ...
What is your solution ?
Calling a psy for the OP suffering from compulsive disorder which is probably not the case or advising him to read "absolute sound" magazine and buying 30,000 bucks speakers ?
Advising him to concentrate on music with a boring sound experience ?
What do you propose ?😊
I propose the OP for example experiment with speakers resonance control ...To begin the fun with experimenting ...
That’s great that you’re so happy !!’ Though many of us are just as happy, and have gone about things very differently than you …
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As i explained in my posts, the OP do not suffer probably at all of any psychological problem.
I was in the same situation when i did not know how to optimize mechanically, electrically and acoustically a system/room ... Most people dont know sorry, it is easy to verify that they dont experiment generally save buying gear,..😊
Most people buy gear , they said that they like it but soon in a short time begin anew to be frustrated if the acoustical balance defect is evident but if the system is too bland they enter into boredom and they think to upgrade again as a solution...
Juggling with gear pieces is not the solution to begin with sorry most of the times...
It is not a psy problem OP , it is an acoustics problem ( with an (s) dear Hilde45 then not room acoustic merely )
Am i am wrong ?
Then why am i not only am i happy but borderline acoustically and musically ecstatic each day?
Rightfull optimization of what we have BEFORE upgrading...
Minimal acoustic satisfaction because of a good balance between acoustics factors EXCLUDE boredom with the sound by definition of what it is in acoustic concepts : ASW/LV = immersiveness
There exist other mechanical factors... Speakers vibrate and enter resonance... Their porthole trust me is not well designed in most case etc....
the electrical factors are numerous ...
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It is why it is better to stick to audio....
I am done also with these political matters...😊
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With all due respect i am not pro Putin...
I do not endorse any deplacement of army in another country ...
But i am not blindly for war promoted by Biden ... With 38 biological laboratory in Ukraine either since 20 years with benefit for Biden and son directly ...
Read other newspaper better inform yourself before judging other... ...
A narrow mind member here 4 years ago accused me of killing people because i spoke about Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine instead of remdesivir and injection ... He confused me with a pro Trump at this time.. Guess who was right ?
Before judging people we must think ...
I read your posts and i like them generally by the way ...😊
I skip only idiots nevermind their opinion Pro or against Biden or Putin ...
😊
(An idiot in my interpretation use insults ad hominem argument and Spam images and had no arguments)
@mahgister I used to read your comments. Since you openly advertised you pro-Putin, pro-war agenda, I just scroll over them. Saves me a lot of time as well.
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The multiple reference points are directly tied to the gear! The "acoustic parameters" change each time for everyone, except for the 1 trick pony.
First you cannot know the optimal working level of a system BEFORE experimenting with it, you must chose one to begin with and using all parameters to install optimally it in the house/room.. This is the learning path .
We learn by using one system and experiment with it in the mechanical, electrical and acoustical working dimension and their possible acoustics parameters.
( acoustics with an "s" is more than just room acoustic i modified my speakers porthole and waveguide with acoustic basic knowledge and i used crosstalk physical and psychoacoustical fact to improve my listening experience the same is true for timbre, ASW and LV as evaluated not only in the room acoustic but in regard to mechanical and electrical and modified gear factors because all factors are interrelated etc )
Then changing the gear pieces BEFORE learning basic knowledge with a system which is already minimally good and synergetical to begin with and chosen as a starting point is an ERROR ...
When we had learned how to install one we can install any other system...it is time to invest more money...
Then what i just explain here invalidate your point about me...
Anybody knows that all pieces of gear speakers included act with different design idea and different specs ... So what ?
How this cliche can invalidate my argument that we must learn acoustics with an "s" with one chosen preferably relatively low cost system BEFORE upgrading to very high end ?😊
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I never ignored the gear factor. the gear factor is a common place factor. We must all buy the best gear we can.
i never negated what is evident : a better design cost more...
But I never either approved a cliché : higher price tag are audio solution ...
Many people here promote their choice of gear as SOLUTION...As many reviewers did...
I never did that. I promoted for 8 years what i called the three working embeddings controls of the gear system in a room ...BEFORE upgrading to a new level we must understand basic... Is it Chinese?😊
But i always insisted that we must learn how to install rightfully our system BEFORE upgrading...
Only a simpleton or a bad faith dude can use that false accusation against me of neglecting the gear as an argument against the necessary method we must all use to install any system/room at any price ...
The common place fact that upgrading is possible dont means that it is THE SOLUTION... Learning , experimenting with what we have is the solution... After that we can without useless loss of money upgrade to any system at any price because then we had learned how to install one we can install now any system at any price at his optimal working.... .
Who on earth cannot understand that ?
Hilde45 ?
He hate my posts and even quitted a thread about A. I. because i gave too much information and he was unable or unwilling to discuss ... Dont believe me go see ..
😊😊
The other dude acted the same...
😊
😊😋
i like people who dont act as vexed children who sulk in a corner before attacking you for your syntax or posts lenght... They had no other arguments ...
But while very expensive gear is not a magic solution to getting better sound better gear is a very important element. And long posts about acoustics and the brain don’t justify ignoring the gear factor.
+1 @hilde45 .
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If they were no acoustical way to improve the design of speakers and the room design and also the relation between speakers designs and the room, if there exist no concepts no parameters controls and no means to optimize acoustically a room/system ; then perhaps juggling at random with gear pieces purchase will be the only possible fun...
On the contrary juggling randomly with pieces of gear guided only by the price tag drive most people to frustration, boredom or obsession about "perfection" with a bit of fun and surprize in between each "upgrade" ...We must know why and how and with what we will upgrade BEFORE upgrading if we are in a rational optimization process... If we juggle with new pieces of gear to break boredom we dont need to know anything because we believe in a self deceptive way THIS NEW piece of gear will be the solution. We are not even wrong here ...😁
Optimization process for ONE chosen and selected system using basic knowledge is not and cannot be a race toward "perfection" which is a self deceptive acquired bias conditioned by audio marketing ...
It is more fun to be creative building a house than juggling with bricks... it is also more useful because even if we change the bricks material composition and design we had learn architecture... Juggling is fun for sure but it is beside the point...
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Most of us dont like change for the change if we are not reviewer or professional sellers...
We are here to improve for the best what we own...
We are here to learn about acoustics and controls of electrical and mechanical parameters (tweaks and method and devices )
Obsessive compulsive disorder is not fun...
Purchasing race may be fun for sometime , but is not a useful hobby for those like me who want MUSICAL best possible acoustic experience for our budget limits...
Buying one piece after the other compared to the creativity implied in installing a system in a room , is like masturbation compared to making love with a loved one...
We listen music not the gear once a system/room is created ... It is my hobby...
I’m not sure the OP is not satisfied, it seems he just likes change, very different...
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When we are not satisfied with a system there is two possible reason:
Frustration...
Boredom...
Ok those are two reasons. Are there only two? How about:
It’s fun to mix and match and do all the connections...
Fun. Fun is a reason.
So now it looks like three possible reasons.
Maybe there is even a fourth! Or a fifth!
About immersiveness (or "immersion" I would call it):
Are you a logical being or some other consideration impede your reason ?
I EXPLICITLY state :
«When we are not satisfied with a system there is two possible reason:
Frustration...
Boredom...»
It is fun to embed rightfully an audio system/room and it is fun to be creative to reach HIGHER qualitative immersiveness yes . But "fun" is not a an acoustical reason to be unsatisfied by a system ...😊
Now for the rest of your post :
A high end system in a dedicated room will do better with an improved immersiveness for sure than my low cost one. But trust me we can live with minimal immersiveness.
There is what "you" can (or have to) live with and then there is "we." I can speak for "me" and some of my audio friends. What one can "live with" is not the end point with me (or us). And many others here would probably agree that they would rather seek better sound than "live with" the minimum. To each his own but that’s my two cents.
Once I identified how to achieve immersion and excellent sound qualities, I began to hear these aspects in other sound systems. In some cases, the gear was the difference which made a difference.
To be clear, I know this is a high-priced hobby sometimes. But it doesn’t have to be. But while very expensive gear is not a magic solution to getting better sound better gear is a very important element. And long posts about acoustics and the brain don’t justify ignoring the gear factor. If I cannot afford better gear, I just admit it or try to find something used or in kit form. But gear matters when all other factors are nearly optimal.
That’s why I don’t want to settle for "minimal" satisfaction. I find it an enjoyable part of the hobby to seek better sound.
The minimal acoustical satisfaction concept threshold, is not a stopgap and it is either not a reason to seek no improvement... do you catch in spite of my heavy english ?😁 It is the first level of a relative satisfying acoustic balance between all acoustic factors implied in the experience of a system/room .
It is a concept i presented to define a minimal acoustic balance , minimal but so good balance we can be happy with that.... it is supposed here that the design of each pieces of the gear are relatively satisfying and with synergy...
This does not mean that someone with a budget without limitations or someone in search of the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold could not invest his money and experiments in this pursuit... Why not ?
The OP may be in this case , not being frustrated at all as he said it clearly and possibly not bored which he did not explained clearly...
( i excluded obsessive disorder about the OP because we are in an audio forum and i exclude "fun" to buy gear in a blind race because before upgrading too much we must learn the acoustic basic and i supposed the OP is not conscious of the importance of acoustics concepts and experiments )
Now your post miss the target because most of us the OP included are in the hobby of listening music FIRST AND LAST...Not in the hobby of peddling gear pieces around...
not in the hobby of buying gear without end in the pursuit of a perfection which is not defined by acoustic concepts and parameters but mostly by the price of the gear alleged to be better piece of gear which is not true or false but must be judged case by case ...
By the way you are so stubborn when you decide that you dont like my posts that you accuse me FALSELY here of denying the importance of gear choices not only for synergy but for reaching the MAXIMAL satisfaction acoustical threshold...
Are you able to think ?
If the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold can be reach ONLY with a balance between the acoustics factors and parameters implied in the system /room and with also the controls over mechanical and electrical factors, if it is so,
What are the conditions to reach the maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold, if we know that the acoustical and mechanical and electrical controls applied in the same way to any system at any price ?
It is MOSTLY by a radical upgrade of the system design pieces with high end component ...This is a common place fact...
Then contrary of what you claim erroneously about my posts, it is clear since the beginning, when i distinguish minimal and maximal acoustical satisfaction threshold...
Takes a beer relax... 😊
At least unlike the thread about A. I. where you quitted instead of thinking and answering it seems as you said because i posted too much interesting content in too many posts , you are here with me and criticize my posts... For staying with me and answering unlike the A. I. thread i thank you.... At least i can precise my thoughts... 😊
«For some it is more fun to play with the bricks than to build the house»Anonymus
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When we are not satisfied with a system there is two possible reason:
Frustration because we detect an acoustic defect and an unbalanced set of factors affect us in a direct way consciously... The defects is perceptible as a defect and it cause un- balance...
Then advising people to concentrate on music instead of the sound as milpai advised it is not a solution...@ellajeanelle is right about that when speaking of uncomfort in a car as a metaphor...
But because the OP said he was pleased by his system then , the other factor is the one affecting him ( i exclude OCD because we are in an audio forum not a psy forum ) is:
Boredom : when an audio system is not well under acoustic, mechanical or electrical control by the owner or if the synergy is not so good, the system can deliver a relatively seemingly balance PLEASANT sound with no apparent defects but no very powerful impact in timbre experience, in dynamic or in immersiveness... All is pleasant but a bit bland ..
The solution can be upgrading some pieces or all of them but before doing that i advise to go into experiments , acoustical one and electrical and mechanical one with what we have already and nothing is more fun... Nothing is more fun than becoming more active and creative... Buying a new piece is not always the solution... My system BEFORE my experiments was a bit bland and boring for one because of the relation between speakers/room and my second system was horrible because of the speakers design...
The solution was mechanical control of vibrations resonance, shielding cables and gear, increasing the link quality of the electrical contact , modifying my speakers porthole and tweeter and especially increasing the quality of acoustic .
Now i am if not in ectasy i am so pleased that only music matter ..Better system, way better exist but i dont give a damn because i had reach the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold and i know it and i know how...
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True, it helps to have multiple points of reference accessible.
Internalized memory is the core foundation for how the sense organs (eyes, ears, etc) function.
Once upon a time, when the Europeans showed up in huge ships on American shores, the natives could "see" the men appearing/moving towards the shores. But, they couldn’t "see" the huge ships (this is of course a blatant example). But, I could go to any number of examples on what I observe with guys who show up to audit my equipment. When its a guy who sounds like he’s real sure of everything, I’ll play him instruments from around the world/types of music he’s never ever heard. The fun starts there. 😉
This is true...very good point... Thanks ...
We cannot perceive as meanginful nor recognize as meaningful something for which we have no concept...And the concept to be understood must be experiment with...
And the concept of timbre, or sound source dimension and listener envelopment, and all other secondary concepts, must be fully understood in all Their aspects by experiments not by comparing two system but instead playing with the frequency response of the speakers and the room of ONE system , the pressure zones of the room , the reverberation time, the location of many devices reflecting-absorbing-diffusin, the distribution or tuning of resonators etc etc ..
Then the "many reference point" need to be acoustic parameters not branded name products mainly save if instead of creating an audiophile experience you want to sell gear pieces as solution😁... We cannot learn audiophile experience merely by buying gear... It is evident for me listening many youtube reviewers that many think so by contagion of a new gear virus ...
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I am flabbergasted by the fact that all aspects of hearing and interpreting sound quality with all concepts and the control parameters linked to them exist in many acoustics science article...
Timbre is very precisely described for example...
Then we dont need to buy a piece of gear so called " high end " to know what a better timbre experience is.
We pick a basic synergetical audio system to begin with and we play by experiments with the many parameters between system and room and ears in their three working dimensions...
i know what is Immersiveness conceptually and by experience for example not because i bought a very costly high end system as THE solution , but because i learned how to create immersiveness with all the possible varied parameters i can control and play with . I called the balance necessary between all acoustics parameters to reach Immersiveness : the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold...
A high end system in a dedicated room will do better with an improved immersiveness for sure than my low cost one. But trust me we can live with minimal immersiveness. i call that ectasy everyday..
😊
Hearing must be LEARNED...Not by purchase but by experiments , acoustic concepts had no relation with branded name of gear or even details of design.
i am one of the rare person here who spoke about methods not about specific gear piece as a solution ...
Guess why ?
Gear dont matter much in acoustics if they gave a minimal quality necessary to begin with our study...
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Acoustic knowledge and basic mechanical and electrical controls and synergy gave me an ectasy that never ended two times... Each time with low cost system...
Then i think there is many people that has a hole to fill as said daveyboy..
If not this case they dont lack money and they dont takes the time to learn..
I never experienced a good system well embedded with a boring sound, then unable to make music acoustically immersive...
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Most of the times if we are bored by the music/sound of our system room it is because we had not reach the optimal way to install or as i say embed the system rightfully in his three working dimensions.
The only exception is bad design of some gear pieces or bad synergy...
No system with synergy well embedded acoustically at any price can be boring ...Music well done acoustically dont bore and we forgot the system it become immersive . A bad system for many reasons can bore.
My thrill come from music with immersive sound. My thrill is not changing the gear. 😊 The only source of boredom cannot be music it is a lack in one or all system working dimensions or a lack of gear synergy.
This lacks can manifest in 2 ways : frustration when the lack is evident as a defect or boredom when the lack is not located or identified as such by the owner nor evident ...
I think you reach a point where, you become so used to a particular sound that the thrill is diminished. That’s when you begin thinking about changing it up again.
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I prefer waytoomuchstuff post explanation to mine...😊
Thanks for your clarification...
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The same diagnosis that keeps you from going to the same restaurant every time.
Variety is the spice of life….
Acoustics has no relation with eating in a restaurant...
Sound parameters serve the music which always has been the goal. If the sound parameters are rightfully balanced we listen the music we dont change the parameters. I can say with a relative confidence that most audiophile are audiophile because they love first and last listening music.No ?
Anyway when all acoustics parameters are settled rightfuly , ( room acoustic and synergetical gear system) we are so enthralled with music that we forgot the gear/room... ( the only exception is ignorance of basic audio knowledge and acoustics and OCD)
In one word any sane and informed person will change music if he wanted more variety not the gear/room...😊
I don’t think it’s OCD as much as a lack of impulse control that said there are worse addictions to have than high end audio gear.
It is not an addiction it is more ignorance coupled with vulnerability to marketing publicity conditioning on someone who dont really know how to create synergy and the right acoustic conditions to begin with ...( it is way more fun to experiment with the gear we have if synergy is there than to buy more gear and more gear)
Or it is someone with no budget limit and no basic knowledge who simply buy something new in audio many times a year and call that a journey in audio...
I have a limit budget myself and i am interested once my system /room is settled optimally with basic knowledge by a MUSIC journey...No more an audio journey... Why ?
Because once you have learned how to install and optimize a system/room , nevermind his price , you can do the same for any other system at any price . ( it takes me 6 months after my first well embedded system for the second one , the two being very different but the same basic knowledge is there nevermind the system/room )
One can get bored with the same sound from the same gear all year long.
This sentence makes no sense in acoustics why ?
Because when a system /room is optimized electrically, mechanically, and acoustically NOT ONE MUSIC album sound the same... The acoustic experience of each recorded albums became completely different and perceptible ... In a bad system/room all sound the same even if each recording acoustics parameters are different... But the bad system/room cannot make perceptible the difference then instead of hearing the acoustic of the recorded album we hear the bad sound of our own system , with a great loss of information.
Try to listen to THE music and not the equipment
This sentence make no sense either because the goal of audio is not to stay frustrated with a System/room, the goal is to make the room/system perform the best it could do...For that we must learn basic knowledge not waiting frustrated and putting our attention on music... Doing that will not change the frustration and the bad acoustic and bad synergy of the gear experience...
It is like saying to a dude on a dentist date without anesthesia, try to concentrate on music... it work to some extent only...😉Not much...
i never been able to live with a bad sound without extreme frustration myself... Why do you think i read so much about synergy and acoustics because i had no other solution and no money to buy an easy apparent solution anyway to solve my problem ? i study and did experiments because it was fun and it improve my sound quality each week ...
ellajeanelle is right:
it would be :like saying "just drive the car" and don’t worry about the lack of comfort or performance or "just go to sleep" and don’t worry about the discomfort of the bed or the broken air conditioner making the room 90 degrees!
But i must say that yes it is fum to buy many system if we can and try to have fun for sure... Why not?
The only problem with that possibility of fun with various gear is that to enjoy really a system we must really takes a lot of time installing it optimally on his 3 working dimensions.. Once you have it for a first system you dont really generally have the time or the urge to create a not so well good other one... Save if as ellajeanelle you want a second and a third system in your kitchen and bedroom after the living room...😊 Then i understand and it is fun too ...
This is not obsession nor insatisfaction or frustration or ignorance, it is just the need for 3 system with one top and two secondary one... it is not the rule most need only one TOP system or the best possible...
And it does not change the rule :
We must learn acoustics BEFORE playing with many upgrades, and we must learn basic mechanical resonance and EMI control and electric noise levels control etc ... ( and acoustics is not mere room acoustic)
For sure three system well embedded and well optimized will sound different ... It is good if we can enjoy three... But we must begin with one and when we have one well embedded we do not think upgrades race so much... Music is the goal if we have it really good with immersiveness and holographic soundstage and natural timbre without too impeding acoustic limitations..
To answer the OP question : Learning Basic Knowledge is the solution not a race toward upgrades and new gear...If we want to listen music... Some want to play with the gear till their death..Not me, i want a new album each two or three days... Not one sound the same ...
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