Thiel Owners
tomthiel
Thank You for another Thiel Audio history lesson. So could consider Kentucky an odd place for Audio. Same can be said for Utah, at least, the state of Kentucky is Horse country. I figured you and Dave (RIP) visited each other via Audio shows back then.
A pleasure to have you here as well. Keep developing and researching. Happy Listening! |
mrfizziks - I would have to do a web search. Rob would know. BTW, Rob is working toward getting help to keep up with business. If necessary, we could plug in a CS1 woofer, which is conceptually and practically the same driver with some Thiel refinements. I could compare the XO circuits for compatibility. But, first try to run down the original Credence. I know we had rebuild kits at one time . . . |
I realize this is an old Thiel thread that I'm attempting to reigniting. I have recently inherited a pair of vintage Thiel 3.5 speakers with an Anthem Mac 20 amp, plus the Anthem TLP 1 pre-am,, an excellent super sonic match for the Thiels. I am interested in finding a Portland OR audiophile who would be interested in the trio. Thank you, AK |
beartunes
Welcome! Nice inheritance gear! Are you looking to move up to a new System? I believe that there is at least 1 member of the Panel in your locale. Stay tuned until he chimes in to address your query. Yes, Anthem, is a sonic match for Thiel loudspeakers. Model 225 Integrated amp does a very nice job from CS 2.4 up to CS 3.7
Happy Listening! |
tomthiel
An update: the Wilson Audio Alexx, is now, Alexx V at $135-151,000 retail. When I tell you guys that it takes much more money to beat a Thiel Audio speaker, I am not joking around. Sidenote: I do not know the retail pricing of a Vandy Kento model? I am sure that pricing is mid- 5 figures. Happy Listening! |
JA - budgets are fascinating things. At Thiel, we never entertained trying to satisfy someone who had $six figures to spend. We tried for a performance plateau that fit ourselves and our projections of our imagined customers. There are real improvements to be had. A great cap can cost $1000+ which could add $10K retail to a pair with normal manufacture and distribution markups. Wade through that labyrinth of focusing the next performance plateau and each product might go for something like triple the original sell price. I’m presently working with those equations. As an example: among the many possible thought-problems - imagine a tricked-out CS5 with its same or slightly updated drivers but with 2 major upgrade foci. 1: Replace the bucket brigade delays in the two midrange drivers with physical displacement. 2: Upgrade the signal caps to CSA and resistors to MRA-12s. The XO part count would drop to half and the sound quality would soar. That’s on my to-do list. The present CS5 owner already has the platform and upgrades don’t need the 2X retail markup. Note that the physical baffle part of that CS5 upgrade might have happened except for the tumult caused by the rampant conversion from hi-fi to home theater in the 1990s. In an alternate universe, I imagine Thiel having concentrated on hi fi product refinement rather than the tremendous investments and demands of addressing home theater. Not only would the state of the art have been stretched, but the internal workings of the company would have been more manageable. That’s second-guessing reality. In fact, I don’t know if Thiel would have survived those market changes without jumping on the HT bandwagon. Anyhow, we are pushing the ball up the hill, a small step at a time. |
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I sincerely believe Jim Thiel made some of the best drivers out there. IMO, only more recent and far more expensive offerings from Vandersteen, TAD, and Vivid are appreciably superior. In your alternate universe, a CS7.2 or CS3.7 with SOTA passive parts and, maybe, Wilson-like budget on cabinet materials would have elevated those models from outstanding to cutting edge. I hope to some day hear the CS5, all the more if it has received your upgrades. IME, the highest quality bass is produced by a sealed box. Eg, the 30 year old Avalon Ascent has the best bass definition I’ve heard. Well, probably matched by the Vandy 7 which also has SOTA bass extension. |
The Kento are low 40’s. You get powered subs built in w 11 bands of EQ and tge 7 midrange / tweeter matched to .5 db ( the 7 is matched to .25 db ) The 7 Extreme employs Kento bass driver arrangement. IF one were to apply some critical thinking to where Jim T would be today, you could forsee him making many of the same design and execution choices made by Vandersteen ( many people don’t have a clear understanding of the mutal respect, friendship, time spent together w Dick Hardesty ). I see Jim continuing to invest in bespoke drivers, awesome capacitors that earn way on to speaker w sonic virtue, pistonic motion, low diffraction, time and phase and tge heavy technology investment required to build an inert low coloration cabinet , add in built for the most part in USA, stir in how many years of inflation and a $50 k JT product in the market is hardy far fetched… Just my $1.50 I miss Charlie..RIP |
tomthiel
Thank You for a little parts cost comparison and its relationship with Retail pricing. We all can hardly await for the 1st speaker to roll off your assembly line. I am a later bloomer having learned about Thiel Audio in 2012. I am a quick study. Most of the Panel members are grateful for Jim not following the H/T trend of the 1990's. There is something to be said about staying focused on One's strong suit in Audio.
Happy Listening! |
Enjoy the Music has posted a nice review from 2009 revisiting the CS 2.4SE. https://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/0409/thiel_cs24se.htm
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Hello everyone! Its been far too long since I last checked in. I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying their Thiel speakers. I am glad to see the thread continuing to go strong.
I was talking to jafant offline yesterday about my setup and I mentioned to him that I would be selling one of my REL Carbon Limited subwoofers. He suggested I put a comment here to help get the ball rolling so that is what I am doing. If you are looking for a sub or know someone who is please send them my ad. I appreciate any help and or interest in my sub or critique/criticism of the listing. Thanks!
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jafant - "There is something to be said about staying focused on One’s strong suit in Audio." There was a turning point in the early 90s where we could have concentrated more on our home turf of high performance / accessibly priced stereo . . . or addressed the recording industry. Those options felt more right to me. Kathy managed the dealers and she was lobbied hard to address the emerging home theater market. We had introduced the SCS in 1990 which was a HT natural and Jim had always wanted to solve some of the inherent problems of subwoofers. Jim related strongly to bass as music's foundation. He co-developed a class D bass amp with Birger Jorgensen at Vifa before Class D was much of a thing. That project consumed extensive time and resources that might have been spent on hi-fi projects. That custom amp powered Thiel’s first SW series subwoofers, which required him to troubleshoot and repair them due to lack of general knowledge in the field. The slippery slope. Thiel’s further HT products worked OK in the marketplace, but they fundamentally changed how we approached our business. There was CEDIA and a host of new market considerations and different dealers. There was Chinese sourcing to meet market price expectations. There was simultaneous co-development of multiple products with differing specifications / tolerance requirements. At the heart of the matter is that Thiel Audio existed primarily as a platform to enable Jim to design products; and more products provided more design challenges. So it worked, in that respect; but, on the other hand, there was less focused attention available for deep diving. In hind-sight it’s interesting to me that various ’observers’ counseled us to ’stick to the knitting’. I agreed, and I withdrew. It comes down to what the lead man wants. Jim wanted to exercise his abilities producing innovative musical products that mattered. Diving deeper would have required a larger R&D team. And that was never in the cards. |
Good morning,
I’m an happy owner of a full Thiel system. Last week, my SS2 sub front led become red and since then no sound is coming out from the sub. Do you know what is the meaning of the color of the front Led? I do not find any info in the manual. Has someone the schematics of the amplifier in order to have an hope to repair it? Can this be generated by the fact that, connecting back my SS2 sub to the preamp, I wrongly used the LFE out connection instead of the LFE input? I already sent a message to Coherent Source Services and I’m waiting for an answer. Reading the previous posts it seems he can not help on SW amp issues… thank you for your support,
Lenny |
Lenny - your LFE hookup may have caused the failure. It is also possible that you just blew a fuse. Look around and see what you find. We have not located those schematics after New Thiel moved to Nashville. As background, there are two functions, the amp, and all of Jim's boundary location correction circuitry. We can hope it's in the amp.
TT |
Manuals, including later updates for the SS2 can be found at Hifiengine - https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/thiel-audio/ss2.shtml |
lennycaroli
Welcome! Good to see you here today. Stay tuned until one of the Panel members here or Mr. Rob Gillum at CSS can advise. The SS1 and SS2 are still quite popular after all these years. Still available around the internet marketplaces too! Tell me more about your Full Thiel system and musical tastes.
Happy Listening! |
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I own a fully restored (by Krell in 2020) KSA 250s paired with a Krell KRC 3 preamp through balanced connections. Would this match well with a pair of CS 3.6? The KSA is rated at 2000 watts into 1 ohm. Here is a link to the particular speakers. I asked about them awhile back and y’all discussed this pair. https://www.soundsgoodtomehouston.com/thiel36.html Ii like speakers that I can feel as well as hear if that makes any sense. Do the 3.6’s move a lot of air? If I could get them for $1200 it seems like it would be an interesting experience. My digital source is an Innuos streamer into an Ayre QB9 DSD dac also using balanced connections. Thanks in advance for any opinions. |
Good afternoon - I figured this thread may have the answer to my somewhat odd question. My father passed away and left a lovely set of Thiel speakers (and the rest of his audio gear). I'm looking to find them a new home in the DC area. A friend was going to post some pictures to their audiophile FB group and asked me to photograph the speakers. I did that - but they wanted a picture that included the model number. I believe they are CS-7s (based on comparing to pictures without the covers on) - but there is no model information on the back. Any clue where I would find it? Thanks! |
I'm sure there are other sites but you can go here and get snapshots of websites at particular times - https://web.archive.org/web/*/thiel.com |
abmeyer
Welcome! Our condolences for your Father. What an incredible inheritance! You are fortunate to live in the DC corridor. Plenty of Audiophiles there. Thank You for posting here- I do not object in the least. Facebook is excellent. As well as the other "net" outlets. Sidebar: Consider a consultation with Mr. Bill Thalmann at Music Technology 703.764.7005 He may know of a buyer as well. Keep me posted on your selling process.
Happy Listening! |
I AM BACK PEEPS. Moved to a new much larger place that fits the thiels better. Just needs room treatment. Just got the pcs bookshelves that were for sale on ebay ordered 20 minutes ago and am excited to receive them. Tom, I have a new email by the way and would love to hear about anything new and recent. |
@abmeyer you would find them on the bottom embedded on a plate. |
The speakers are not that hard for many to hold in a tilted postion while someone looks underneath (you only need to tilt them several inches to get a smart phone under there to take a picture). I used to own 7.2s which were the same size as the 7s (and there was an upgrade option for someone to upgrade 7s to 7.2s). I believe the original 7s (and possibly early 7.2s) had a concrete baffle and weighed a 170 pounds. The 7.2s with the composite baffle (which I owned) weighed 155 pounds. Hifiengine.com has the manual for the 7.2s. Hifishark.com will allow you to search for current and past products which are for sale or have been sold. |
Thanks everyone. Tom - that's very helpful. I can tell that they are original 7s. Someone had just asked me to add a picture of the model and serial number to some photos I was going to use to find them a new home. I'll have to see if I can borrow some muscle to help tilt them, I guess (or find the receipt). My 83 year old friend is not going to want to be my muscle. |
dmac67 - regarding those 3.6sAs you probably know, Thiel products were engineered down to the gnat hair scale. The drivers were massaged by their crossover circuitry for physical roll-in and roll-out of 6dB/octave with the midrange controlled over 7 octaves. The drivers by the time we passed 1980 were custom designed with many innovations to reduce distortion and generally perform better than we could buy on the open market. The 3.6 midrange incorporated our patented double cone with a deep straight back cone and a shallow flared front cone for internal damping, higher stiffness to mass ratio, a top end approaching 20kHz, etc. etc. Any off the shelf driver will be at best a thin approximation. Any differences from the Thiele/Small parameters of the stock driver will miss the XO targets to some unknown degree. Regarding his ’redesigned crossover’, we don’t know the level of change and/or skill involved matching the new driver to the woofer and tweeter. Regarding the tweeter as ’better than aluminum’ Some folks prefer each; Jim chose the aluminum due to its greater consistency and higher frequency breakup mode which he could choose not to notch-filter (the high-Q filter can be heard.) Jim and Birger Jorgensen at Vifa together co-engineered that fiber dome in parallel with the aluminum one. It is a drop-in replacement (its low end rolls out same as the aluminum one.) The ’sound’ is somewhat mellower - some prefer it; but its ’sound’ is not as crisp and articulate as Jim’s products. If I were looking at that Morado pair, I would gather some power-handling information on the new midrange. Our Vifa P11-MH01-04 midrange handled around 50 watts RMS (from memory), which is a high bar. First order x 7 octaves is a tall order. Let us know how you navigate the waters. |
Tom Thiel, thanks for the reply. I wish I could locally find a stock pair the way they were intended to be… My gut was telling me to pass on these as they could be less than a shadow of what they were intended to be but I’ve been watching this particular pair for several months. Thanks again for the reply. Andrew |
jazzman7, The review you referenced with the CS2.4SE I own that very pair used for that review. There were to few reviews pertaining to Thiel speakers. Getting a very good condition pair and performing some of the upgrades mentioned by Tom would allow them to compete with modern spekers costing you five times or more your purchase price for the Thiels. |
duramax747 - good score! My forensic observation reveals that crossover production for various models was taken to China/FST and that early FST crossovers had weaknesses and improved over time. However, it seems that FST XOs used MPT/polyester caps where Thiel had always used (superior) MPP/polypropylene. Additionally, we know that Jim personally checked, measured and approved review samples. So, your pair is what a hot-rodder would call 'blue printed' - exactly as intended. |
