jafant, I’m in Columbia MO and did a day trip down to Nashville and back.
Tom, I’ve already been in touch in Rob about the coax status and updating them. I wouldn’t mind upgrading to the 2.4 equivalent. I asked about the woofers but Rob mention they are really robust and typically not an issue.
Rob has already rebuilt the 3.6 mids and I’m ready to have the tweeters rebuilt in the near future. In the meantime I’ve picked up some extra XCs for the 3.6s and will replace and upgrade all the caps and resistors. I also plan to externalize the XCs in some older shelf speaker boxes and keep them separate from the goings on inside the CS3.6s, Winter project coming up.
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duegi - you're on it.
I would not consider upgrading the 2.3 to 2.4 drivers. The crossover tunings take the cabinet particulars into consideration. Keep what you have.
Note that outboard crossovers can benefit from a different layout because the driver EMFs are no longer in consideration. Plus airflow can be utilized. If you are interested in considering my OXO cabinet and/or layout, send me a PM.
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jafant,
I sold a pair of CS 2.7 but I have the exact same pair in a house in Florida.
I've deided to invest in CS 7.2 as my listening room here in NC is 35'x60'x12' ceilings so the big Thiels will work better in that space.
Tom,
I woulkd be on board with going forward with xover upgrade. The drivers are in perfect shape as are the cabinets. I'm thinking of refinishing them in a high quality automotive paint and making them look more current.
Currently I'm designing a Panzerholz base for it.
You'd have tp spend a considerable amount of scratch to better these.
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duramax 747 - send me a PM. I placed a factory ClarityCap order last week, but we can still add to it. We have to make parts decisions quickly to participate in this buy.
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duegi
Thank You for the follow up. Good to read that you had a Positive experience with Rob at CSS. I concur with Tom. The CS 2.3 and CS 2.4 are not similar in Driver(s).
Happy Listening!
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duramax747
Which Thiel Audio loudspeakers are you holding currently?
Yes, a beast like the 7.2 model requires a great space to perform correctly.
Happy Listening!
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Jafant,
I have white CS 2.7 (had probable the only two pair), CS 2.3, CS2.4SE, CS 6, CS 7.2.
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duramax747
That is a nice collection. Thank You for the update. Yes, White finish is quite rare.
Happy Listening!
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Folks,
Pair of CS .5 for sale (facebook listing) in Valley Park MO near St Louis, priced at $600.
And yes for some reason I have become addicted to searching all the listings for Thiel products of worth...
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duegi
Nice catch. Happy Listening!
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Does anyone have a comment on the CS6 vs the CS 2.4, both available nearish to me, the CS6 seems older and much larger, but from the comments goes much deeper. I am just curious what some other members think of the upper range I have the cs 1.6 and want to get more bottom end without using a sub but dont want to loose the non-fatiguing presentation of the 1.6
Thanks
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halifax
i can attest to the CS 2.4 model. This loudspeaker will give you the same attributes as the 1.6 plus Bass extension desired without a subwoofer. The CS 2.4 provides the listener accurate, taut, Bass via the Passive Radiator. You can enjoy every genre of Music. It is a Honey of a speaker. Easy to drive as well.
What other gear is in your system?
Happy Listening!
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halifax
I cannot comment on the CS6. Stay tuned until one of the Panel experts chimes in to address your query.
Happy Listening!
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Many moons ago, I owned the 2.3s. My friend also worked at the high end shop and for about a 6 year period, I did virtually all of his deliveries and set-ups with him, including many pairs of Thiels.
I had decided to upgrade the 2.3s. The store where my friend worked had limited floor space and they just had the 7.2s. So on an out-of-town business trip to Northern California, I stopped at a Thiel dealer who carried all the models and they were very gracious and let me listen to all of them. I spent most of the time with the 6s and 7.2s (I had set-up and delivered many pairs of 2.3s). I decided on the 7.2s.
When th 2.4s cames out, I delivered a bunch of those. Personally (and much of course depends on your room, listening preferences and electronics), I'd go for the 2.4s vs. the 6s. Yes it (the 6s) is older technology. If someone listened almost exclusively to classical, depending on the other factors, it might be something to consider.
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It depends on the level of committment you are willing to invest.
CS 2.4 are easier to set up and less finicky with electronics. Not that they dont benefit from demoing numerous amps and front end, just not as critical as CS6.
Top to bottom it's a well balanced speaker and at its price point it's a steal.
CS6 takes more effort to properly set up. Getting the correct balance with electronics can be laborious if you dont enjoy the journey of doing so.
Once dialed in with the right electronics the CS 2.4 are outclassed.
The CS6 produce a bass punch much larger than their weight class.
It will take a considerable investment compared to the CS 2.4 to glean the best out of them.
Thats my .02 whatever weight that may have.
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cascadesphil
Thank you for your impressions and thoughts on CS6 vs. CS2.4 loudspeakers.
You we’re very fortunate to have worked for an Audio Dealer/Retailer. Keep the stories coming.
Happy Listening!
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duramax747
Thank you for weighing in as well. No doubt that you know the Thiel brand owning so many Models. I value your impressions and thoughts likewise.
Good to have you and Phil’s expertise on the Panel.
Happy Listening!
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halifax
In my auditions and travels, I found the CS 1.6 more in line with the 2.4 loudspeaker.
I found the CS 1.7 more in line with the 2.7 and 3.7 models.
Happy Listening!
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I would love to get the 2.7 or 3.7 model in the future. The other Theils I have demoed are the 3.5 and 3.6, which were nice in their own ways, the 3.5 was maybe too flat sounding, not in a bad way but more like gigantic studio monitors. I liked the 1.6 a lot in the store, when i got it home it sounded Musical Fidelity amp the sound was really not even close. Many amps later I ended up with a coda amp which was like lifting a veil form the 1.6 where the is tons of clean bass and mids . I think the 2.4 should work well with this amp which is part of why I want to upgrade. I have been wanting to see what the next step up in the lineup would be like. I find the 1.6 to be very amazing on the highs, but the mids and lows seem to be slightly less full sounding in comparison to how the treble range feels so palpable.
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@halifax
I have a Coda CSIB v1 integrated amp driving my CS 2.4 speakers, and I can vouch that it is an excellent match.
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halifax
CODA is a sonic match with Thiel speakers.
What other gear is in your system?
Happy Listening!
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jazzman7
Good to read that you are enjoying Coda Integrated
Amp with CS 2.4 loudspeakers. Thank you for confirmation.
Happy Listening!
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These comparative observations are quite interesting to me. As you know, Jim developed new technologies throughout his inventive career. Each new product incorporated something, or multiple things that were brand new. So the timeline becomes a parallel consideration to the model capability. Bigger, more expensive models bring greater dynamic range and deeper bass. More drivers can deliver better signal integrity spread more evenly across the musical range. The time factor / when the model came out, brings subtlety and sophistication due to new solutions, primarily in driver subtleties, especially after Thiel began making its own drivers in the mid 1990s.
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jafant,
I am using a Coda amplifier with an Ayre preamplifier and for sources I have a Meridian CD Player and Pro-ject Turntable, most of my music is on CD. Together it all sounds very nice, with tons of detail and sound-stage. I have a dynaudio active studio system that is very different and I like having the less forward presentation from the Thiels for listening. The only thing that seems like it would be a significant upgrade is going from the cs 1.6 to a larger speaker where I am looking for more "presence" in the mids and low end. I have decided on the 2.4 and will post some comments in the near future, hopefully the amp matching will be successful and I don't feel the need to go back down that road again.
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halifax,
A consideration worth noting is the volume of your listening room. If it's on the smaller side then by default you will rule out the CS6 as they need a little elbow room to hear their potential.
Another consideration are amps. You mentioned bass. To drive the CS6 or even the CS 2.4 you will need amps that can push some current and Class A being at the top of that list.
Another consideration is the upgrade path you can take on xovers with the CS2.4 which Tom Thiel has been very generous with his time to help members. You will no doubt extract more performance from this upgrade.
I'm holding out for the upgrade xovers for the big Thiel's.
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FWIW - room size is a many-faceted thing. When we purpose built Thiel’s listening room, Jim specified a maximum size of 11,000 cubic feet. A larger room requires greater woofer excursion, which is difficult and expensive to achieve. That room works nicely with non-subwoofered models from CS2 upward. The larger Thiels didn’t over-drive that room unless really cranked. The room had 4 doors that could be opened to vent the bass if needed.
I suspect a room much larger than that one might require subwoofer support to pressureize the room and keep the woofers from flapping.
I’m off early tomorrow morning to see Bill Thalmann, pick up a pair of 2.4s and 7.2s under the guise of my niece’s wedding. I’ll report when I return next week.
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Off to see Bill Thalmann? Cool. I was in touch with Bill about the possibility of upgrading my CJ amps. I ended up going another way but I still may send him mine someday for a V-Cap upgrade.
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tomthiel
Safe travels. Give Bill my best.
Happy Listening!
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prof
Good to see you again. The V-Cap upgrade is a must. It will transform your gear to the next level.
Happy Listening!
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Rather removed from the typical subject matter discussed here, I feel compelled to boast about the all too brief meeting I had earlier today with Tom Thiel - who is the new owner of the pair of CS 2.4’s we transacted for.
To say the least, Tom is one of the most intrepid people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. After a quick listen and equally quick conversation regarding Theil and such, he was off to pick up another pair of Theils not too far from my place. I myself have traveled to some appreciably distant points to procure Thiels in the past, my very first pair of CS3.5’s were located in Massachusetts - a 250 mile four-to-five hour excursion depending on traffic.
Such is what we do, isn’t it?
While I am currently astray from having Thiel in my setup, the Maggie MMG’s and REL sub I replaced the CS2.4’s for are more than a merely decent substitute. I have decided that I will continue with these until such a time arises that I may be able to buy yet ANOTHER pair of my absolute favorite model, the CS 3.5. This isn’t 20/20 hindsight as much as it is 20/20 regret for ever having sold off the three pairs that I once had. The CS 3.5 just does everything right for my humble ears.
I am prepared, and fully aware of the fact that such a prospect will be of the upgraded version Tom has been hinting at - and I will be more than willing to pay the price. I believe I’ve uttered a couple of noteworthy opinions in this forum over the years, and either, and both still hold true - that Thiel is an investment, not merely a purchase, and that Thiel is essentially Magneplanar with BASS.
Carry on folks!
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@oblgny , While the Thiel's and the Magnaplanars have an uncanny resemblance when it comes to transient response (though the Maggies are planars they are still techically dynamic speakers), and the Maggies though more coherent than most, are not quite as coherent as the Thiels, but the dispersion characteristics are very different (point source vs. dipole).. Both would make my short list. You might want consider Magnaplanar's new subwoofer with dispersion characteristics that are meant to compliment the Maggies.
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@unsound. Your points regarding the existing similarities/differences between Thiel and Magnepan are, as usual, spot-on. Obviously, since Tom was buying the CS 2.4’s we had to hear them. (I’m still with the Belles 250i Hybrid Integrated) After all, I am a 100% positive feedback member here.
I played an Alison Kraus live CD unencumbered, just the Musical Fidelity unit, no DAC. And the Thiels were perfect. Damn, I love treble. Just for the heck of it we then listened to the MMG’s - again, just the CD player, no DAC involved. I then involved the sub at my preferred setting.
In this context I will state that the 2.4’s were more articulate in the highs than the MMG’s were, but not with a margin that could make them look bad. Tom made a particularly memorable statement regarding how we perceive the upper registers or the lower ones shortly after this, and it hit me right between the eyes.
I err toward appreciating, or paying more attention to the high end. My tolerance for bass response is probably well below most people’s, meaning that unless the speaker is woefully lacking in it, I can - for the lack of a better description - forgive it. My brain makes up for it in some manner. The Thiels bottom out @ 36hz, the MMG’s @ 50hz. The REL I’m using goes down to 30hz. My employment of the sub can probably best be described as minimal. I do like, and I do appreciate bass, but Thiel taught me well about articulation in both treble and bass.
I will follow your suggestion to audition the new Thiel sub. I have had a previous less than satisfactory experience with their DWM bass panel when I had the 1.7 model. It was…awful. Apart from adding too many additional cables, it added zero to the sonics in total. Meh.
I am slowly rebuilding my main setup. I will not be selling the Belles 250i Integrated. I had to sell my Pass Labs X150.5 amp due to a financial need at the time, an act that I regret to this day - which IMHO - was the best amp for Thiel. Articulate amp? Meet articulate loudspeaker. The Belles could probably use a checkup, and I’m looking for a tech for that purpose as we speak.
I just added a Pro-ject cheap seats turntable mated to a Pro-ject DS tube phono stage, along with an Aurender N100H 2TB music server. My next mission is to look for a DAC that will complement the Aurender since the cheap seats Jolida FX Glass DAC is dated.
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@oblgny, I'm a bit surprised that you seemed to prefer the Thiel treble to the Maggie treble. The Thiel's have gotten some criticism for their treble response, where as the Maggies quasi-ribbon has recieved some cirtical acclaim. I think the Thiel's criticisim has been a bit unfair, as many of the competitiors roll off theirs, where as the Thiel's more accurately offer what it's presented with. I think most of the problem is with the recording techniques. Often times we see photographs of recordings with microphones directly above the violins or inserted into the lid of the piano. With that said, I might have a slight preference for the Maggies in that regard. But..., prefer the gestalt of the Thiel's.
I think you meant to post that you'd like to audition the Maggie {sic} sub.
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@unsound. Oops, damn typos. Yes, I meant I will see if I can find a local dealer with the new Maggie sub. Unfortunately, my very local shop, Audio Den, is no longer carrying Magnepan, so I’ll probably have to make a trip into Manhattan.
Re: your statement about my preferring the Thiel over the MMG treble wise. The Thiel was definitely “brighter” to my ears, but by no means was that a slight against the Maggies.
I have to agree with your observation on recordings - everything matters in the final cut. As I was awaiting for the Aurender to complete downloading almost 1 TB of my music files, I more or less binged on Ani DiFranco on my Mac desktop. (I have my files on a portable SSD drive) I’ll have to dive into who produced/engineered these albums because they sound excellent. I really dig DiFranco as a musician.
Cheers!
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oblgny
Always good to see you here again my NY Brother. Thank You for posting your correspondence with Tom. I, for one, am looking forward in reading about your next system. Life is too short. A fellow fan of Ani as well.
Happy Listening!
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Well, I got the 2.4s, it was a whole day a driving to get them. Hooked them up and one speaker had one tweeter/mid unit not functioning. I auditioned these in a odd shaped untreated room, so It wasn't obvious to me one driver was broken. Kind of disappointing, but my fault for not being more careful; I did pay $1k so even considering having to repair them I still think am happy with them, the low price should have been an indicator something was fishy. I already contacted Rob Gillum and will be having the broken driver sorted, his quote for the rebuild of the driver seemed really fair and he got back to me immediately. I will be testing with a multimeter and hopefully its just the driver. The speakers cabinets are in pretty good shape, probably would rate the cabinets at 8/10. Based on a short audition, I noticed a few things. The amp was BAT vk-300x integrated and sounded very under-powered. The 2.4 sounded exactly like my 1.6 when they under powered. The overall sound was kind of hollow. The bass was there but there was no weight to it. The soundstage is there but not locked in solid. Not a good amp for the 2.4. Listening at home, with Coda amplifier these 2.4 speakers totally sang!!! They are so much more full and weighty compared to the 1.6, even with one tweeter not working the sound stage was huge and the treble was even smoother than the 1.6, maybe not quite as sweet but there was just more information coming through that sounded purer. I will update when everything is working fully, but I am already really loving these speakers. I really wish Thiel was still in buisness, they made some very special products.
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Oblgny- thank you for the demo and your CS2.4s Of course more time would have been nicer, but anorher stop and travel to Virginia landed me after midnight.
And duegi (was it you?) thank you for the lead to the 7.2s (he calls them 7.1s - he did the conversion from CS7s at home.)
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tomthiel
Good to read that you made the trek to VA. safely. Enjoy your stay there. For you, Christmas came early this year! Have fun with all of that Gear.
Happy Listening!
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halifax
Thank You for initial impressions and thoughts on the CS 2.4 loudspeaker. Nice score at $1K. Mr. Rob Gillum will have those speakers singing again in full range soon.
Besides the 3.5 speaker, the CS 2.4 is (very) well annotated here in this thread.
Well documented as well. Take the time to read through and you will be rewarded.
B.A.T. is a good match, must be set up properly. CODA (Pass Labs) is a sonic match too. Your Ears do not deceive. The CS 2.4 is a special loudspeaker. I can still remember my 1st demo.
Happy Listening!
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In my experience what made the biggest difference driving my CS 3.7s is going from class A/B to class A amp.
I had a Gryphon Diablo 300 before and replaced it by a Vitus SIA-025 Mk2, the difference is really huge in terms of grip and musicality.
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Hey @Halifax
Just curious - which Coda Amp do you have?
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oblgny - there is a set of CS3.5 with the eq at College Hifi in Chattanooga. I listened to them last week with a Mac amp, the eq was not hooked up but I will try go try to hear them again with the eq just out of curiosity. They sounded great, very neutral and clean across the entire sound spectrum.
Jazzman7 - I am using the Legacy Audio High Current Amplifier by Coda. It is 220wpc @ 8ohm and 380 wpc @ 4ohm. Coda branded amps don't show up very often and are pricey. They show up on ebay sometimes for $800-900. Other amps I tried with the 1.6 were the bryston 4b, butler, classe dr-9, musical fidelity a3cr, jaton operetta and conrad johnson mf2300A. The conrad and coda were my favorites.
Here is an interior shot of the coda
https://imgur.com/B1gj0LTl.jpg
I opened up the 2.4 speaker to remove the tweeter/midrange which I though was broken. It turns out the white lead was disconnected. I tested with a multimeter across the terminals and it got a 2.8-3 ohm reading, which seemed good so I resoldered it and also used a q-tip to push out a divot in in the tweeter dome. The speaker sounds great now, I am pretty exited and I will post some more comments this evening, I did notice you can tell when one speaker has the grill on and the other doesn’t.
I was reading through the tread and there are a lot of posts on upgraded crossovers, is there any particular post which has a summary of which parts need to be upgraded due to age and which parts are the best for sq? Are there completed crossovers or kits that can be purchased?
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halifax
Do you live in the Chattanooga area? Very cool that you found the culprit (white lead disconnected).
That is quite a list of Power amps tested against your speakers. All solid performers. 2nd- Conrad Johnson. We have quite a few DIY'ers here that upgraded the XO for model CS 2.4. Take your time to read through the material. Feel free to contact these guys for further inquiry. Have fun massaging those 2.4 speakers into your room and system.
Happy Listening!
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@halifax: Thank you for the heads up on the 3.5’s. At this moment in time I am simply making adjustments to improve my current setup, which only today scored a Mytek Liberty DAC to replace a Jolida FX Glass Tube unit. The Belles 250i Integrated 250i that I’ve been digging has a tubed (1) preamp section, and I kinda feel like I’m over-tubing myself with the aging Jolida. My Pro-ject turntable also uses a tubed phonostage. The Mytek is way more up to date, including MQA support.
It is my humble opinion that Thiel, as well as Maggies, benefit from solid state amplification. In the past I stuck to this, more often than not incorporating tubed preamps in the mix to good effect. Unless I’m mistaken or misinformed by info obtained from the interweb, Coda was founded by a bunch of guys who once worked with Nelson Pass? That association alone would give me reason to buy one.
My current setup is: Belles 250i Mosftet Integrated Amplifier, Magnepan MMG, Musical Fidelity A35 disc player, REL T5i subwoofer, Pro-ject Debut Carbon EVO turntable, Pro-ject DS tube phonostage, Aurender N100H 2TB music server, and lastly the newly acquired Mytek Liberty DAC, and a Furutech power conditioner. The most expensive component to date has been the Aurender, which I bought in lieu of TMR’s refusal to accept my offer on a Pass Labs X150 Integrated.
The next addition will in all likelihood be a Pass Labs integrated. Like that, my eventual re-association with a pair of CS 3.5’s is fairly far down the proverbial road. Being financially capable of obtaining either is the crux of the matter. In any case, such will be my “final” system. I am more than willing to wait for the upgraded versions of the CS 3.5’s which, I know, will cost substantially more than the pairs I have already had.
PS: I always employed the CS 3.5 equalizer in my listening. To my ears the sonics were dull without it.
Cheers, folks!
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oblgny
Always good to see you here. Thank You for the System update. Yes! too many tubed gear is too much of a good thing. The Musical Fidelity A35 is a fine player.
I believe that you are the only Panel member whom endorses Belles amplifier.
Do you miss B.A.T. integrated amp?
Happy Listening!
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Jafant - yes I am in Chattanooga, if you are nearby you are welcome to come hear my setup
oblgny - the setup you have now seems like it should be pretty fun, i see why you are not in a hurry to upgrade, i used to use a rel storm III with the cs1.6 it was awesome sub for its time, they got really nice. My first encounter with big bass was a REL stadium, it literally made the couch I was sitting on vibrate enough to move, It made me laugh at loud at the sheer amount of bass energy it put into the room. Maggies with one of those and a belles amp seems like it would be a fun match, I think you could probably try a cs1.6 with that amp and sub and have a really interesting alternate setup, if the Belles is running the maggies well it can certainly put out the power for the cs1.6 also. The liberty DAC looks super awesome, definitely a piece I would like to try
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halifax
Thank You. I work in Nashville. Perhaps we can meet-and-greet soon. Pretty cool to have an Audio shop locally. I hope that you are enjoying the CS 2.4 upgrade. It is quite a special Loudspeaker, IMO.
Happy Listening!
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