Thiel Owners

jon,

I would stay happily with my 3.7s if I didn't have to battle room ergonomic/aesthetic issues.

(Well, as my flagship speaker anyway.  I like different speakers too much to only own one, so I usually have a couple different on hand to switch in for a change).

Jim Thiel made some fantastic designs. In particular, some of his drivers were and still are among the best ever, IMO. I think his main shortcoming was relying almost exclusively on measurements and not so much on listening. The CS2.4SE seems to be an acknowledgement that SQ can be improved by tweaking the crossover, if not the wiring. Jim Thiel in the UltraAudio review of the CS2.4SE:

The improved resolution is not the kind of thing that shows up well in measurements; the magnitude of the difference between the CS2.4 and the CS2.4SE is more easily heard than discerned from graphs. The new capacitors allow more nuance, air, detail, and decay to be reproduced by the coaxial drive unit. This was especially evident to us when listening to recordings that contained realistic reverberation, as well as recordings where the instruments were not processed heavily.

Jim Thiel passed too soon, at the height of his abilities. It a shame to see what has become of his company. If only he had groomed an engineer to carry his legacy . . .

The only speakers I've heard that I think are better than the CS3.7 or CS7.2 are far costlier - designs from TAD, Vivid, Avalon and the Vandersteen 7 (I'm curious to hear the 5A Carbon). In the meantime, you'll be seeing me post more often here . . . I've bought a pair of Thiels, should be in my living room this time next week.

Speaking of what has become of Thiel, they haven't had any activity on facebook since 12/16.  The website says 40% off of everything and that appears to be after the cut they already made to the ludicrous overpriced lifestyle products they were selling.  Has anybody heard anything more?  

I doubt anyone has been expecting this version of Thiel to stay in business much longer.

Seems inevitable that they will fold. Why did they ever bring on a new designer that threw out pretty much every one of Jim Thiel's principles? Crazy! I hope that one of the employees will buy out the legacy parts and continue to offer service and repairs (altho' this may make that person a target for people demanding warranty repairs).

My second post on this topic because I enjoy my Thiel's so much.....
How I came to purchase my Thiel CS2's in 1986.  
I essentially have zero knowledge of audio engineering or design. I have always purchased what I figured might be "good sounding" components based mostly on what I could afford which wasn't much. 
By the mid 1980's I wanted to upgrade my speakers. My D'Agostino satellite/sub s sounded "good" but I wanted a taller floor standing speaker. One that by it's sheer size would be impressive. And oh maybe sounded "better." See, I am a novice....:) 
I passed on Rogers LS3/5a and Watson Labs 10 in 1977 due to price. Listened to both. They produced involving seductive sound...wow what a loss. I would still have the Rogers to this day has I purchased perhaps not the Watson's as they had some gas filled sections that over time probably would have leaked out.  
So here I am in the mid 1980's looking for a BIG speaker I could afford via an annual audio components buyer's guide!  
Spent weeks pouring over specs and reviews settling on Thiel CS2. 
An audio shop in Berkeley several miles from where I lived  carried Thiel.
A brief listening session was all it took for me to place an order. Sound was detailed, natural and not fatiguing. Never had one problem with them. Drivers as are the cabinets in excellent condition. 
They are playing as I write this. 

ranchhand1

Always good to see someone from the earlier years. Need more of us!
So, pretty good investment after all the enjoyment of 30+ years...

Good to see you  again- ranchhand1

very nice- what other gear is in your system?
Happy Listening!

robinbarbour-
any new gear headed your way in 2018?

Happy Listening!

ranchhand,

Someone here being satisfied with a speaker that long?

Inconceivable ;-)

Hey jafant,
Other components are low budget conscious and mostly older as well. 15 yr old Rotel pre-amp, Philips cd 80 and my "venerable" Hafler 9180 circa 1994. Still have the D'Agostino satellite/sub set. They sound good considering I purchased them in 1977! The Thiel's out pace them. Once I buy something I usually keep it. Sold off Bryston and Rega in the past however.   

Hey prof,
yes! conceivable! :) I certainly "lusted" after many other speakers and amps but being focused on investing for retirement centered my discretionary budget on frugal. Now pleasantly retired these past the years I am glad I remained sensibile.

Yes robinbarbour, The Thiel's were are very good investment considering the random and largely uninformed manner in which I decided to purchase them!

Nice! ranchhand1
nothing wrong w/ owning and using older gear- especially, if the system synergy is right.
Happy Listening!

Well, I still have my old 02 Thiels which I acquired from my wife in '93.  And she had them since '82 or so.  They have certainly proved to be too satisfying to sell.

Kept my purchased new CS 2's for 18 years.

Looking forward to your review on Thiel speakers- beetlemania

Well, you've already read my opinion on the CS1.6 . . . Today, I received my CS2.4SE. They're a bit rougher cosmetically than the seller disclosed but the drivers are flawless.  I've listened to a couple of dozen songs - I would still be listening instead of typing if my wife had not gone to bed early due to illness.

I've heard many really good speakers over the years, in different rooms with different electronics. It's tough to directly compare under such circumstance. So, most of my comments will be relative to the speaker I've lived (and loved) with for the past 10 years, the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature II. First off, I doff my hat to the Vandy's. I still think they are the best speaker under $5K, a flat out bargain at $2750. I suspect I can only notice it's slight deficiencies because my electronics are now close to top-shelf (Ayre AX-5 Twenty, Ayre QB-9 DSD, and Cardas cabling).

I wanted to upgrade because I remembered, going from the CS1.6 to the 2Ce, that the Vandies had a veiled quality in the midrange. This was almost completely cured by getting high-quality cables and utilizing its bi-wiring capacity. Still, with my recently obtained AX-5 I wondered what the Vandies might be obscuring. Well, not much. The CS2.4s are more transparent but not by as much as I had guessed. I stand by earlier opinions that the 2Ce gives you a fat helping of high-end sound at not much more than mid-fi pricing.

The first thing that struck me about the CS2.4 was the tight and well-defined bass. This might be the parameter wherein the Thiel most clearly separates itself from the 2Ce. I was hearing bass detail that I've only heard on speakers many multiple times the price of the 2Ce. That said, the 2Ce does reach a bit lower. The deep organ tone on Tracy Chapman's "3000 miles" was notably truncated by the CS2.4. On the other hand, this was the  only song I played wherein I noticed the Thiels limits. It had plenty of bass for the other songs I sampled including some Peter Gabriel, typically replete with bass and percussion.

The CS2.4SE is also more resolved than the 2Ce. Decay of chimes, bells, and triangles is superb via the Thiels. Subtle vocal inflections of backing singers are more apparent. On at least a couple of songs I sampled, I became aware of subtle percussions from shakers and the like that had previously gone unnoticed. *This* is what I wanted in an upgrade! I'm quite happy after the first evening.

Still, I very much doubt that the Thiel's advantages over the 2Ce would be notable without top-notch electronics. For those whose budget cannot fit a killer amp and source, get yourself a pair of the latest 2Ce Sig IIs and don't look back. For me? I think these Thiels might be my last speaker. 

I've had plenty of speakers in my room, of all different designs, and the Thiel speakers (CS6, 2.7, 3.7) have all produced the best bass I've heard in my room - the tightest, most tonal, least boxy, most focused and punchy.  I love Thiel bass! 

Very sweet! beetlemania
where did you find and purchase your 2.4 SE speakers?
What serial numbers do you own?

Last speaker- well reported.
Happy Listening!

Happy Friday- All.

I am interested in locating a pair of Thiel CS 3.7 speakers.  I have been looking for about three weeks on Audiogon and the internet and have not seen anything.  Any thoughts on places to loo or how to go about finding a pair.  I have a pair of CS 2.3s with upgraded coax speaker which sound great but I am interested in upgrading.  Thanks.

@bcarr38 The best single place to check is hifishark. Type in the model you want and it will show you a compilation of listings from Audiogon, eBay, Audiomart, and many others. Plus, you can review previous listings and get an idea of the market value of the speaker you want.

You might consider the CS2.7s that are for sale here.

@jafant I got them from The Music Room near Denver. 163 and 164. What do you use to clean and treat the veneers?

geeze bcarr38, I wish I could help you by hurrying up my decision on whether I'm going to sell my 3.7s. :-)

I'm trying out subwoofers again with my 2.7s this weekend, I hope.

Good to see you- bcarr38
good advice from beetlemania. Watch this site, eBay, Craigslist,  and US Audio Mart daily.  Funny thing, prior to the holiday season there was a pair on here and eBay.  As always, if i spot a pair, I will post for you guys.

Happy Listening!

Very nice! beetlemania.
you and me share one of the last pairs built.  As far as I know a simple microcloth is fine for cleaning.  I do not believe that the special finish requires polishing. If I find out otherwise, I will message you.

Happy Listening!

bcarr38-

a quick check over on US Audio Mart, I spotted a pair of CS 3.7 speakers in CA dated from October 2017. The listing still appears active and available for purchase.  Hope you can grab them!

Happy Listening!

Looks like there was a Les Paul - Gibson sunburst pair of CS3.7 for sale last fall. What a great looking speaker!

OTOH, I've read that the CS3.7 (and by extension 2.7?) were made in China, both the cabinets and drivers. I recall the delays Thiel had going from prototype to production with the CS3.7 . . . I'm super glad my Thiels, including the drivers, were made in Lexington.

you and me share one of the last pairs built.

Did they not make the full 150 pair production?

beetlemania,

as reported per saffron_boots, only 91 pairs of the CS 2.4SE were produced.  Hopefully, the remaining drivers, cross-overs and other critical parts are available via customer service/Mr. Rob Gillum in Lexington KY?

I will attempt to get an affirmation on this important matter.
Happy Listening!

Wow! Well, I'll consider myself lucky despite the less than ideal condition of my pair's cabinets. I seriously thought about just getting a standard pair and modding them but really wanted the outriggers and I dig the "vermilion maple".

Yes, please let us know about driver availability. Cross-overs can be repaired/upgraded, even by a dummy like me, but not so much the drivers!

I continue to pinch myself with luck that I managed to bag a pair of the 2.7s in my coveted ebony finish.  They are just about the most beautiful pair of speakers I've seen, and aesthetics count a lot for me.

Before getting the 2.7s I was just about to start the process of having my 3.7s re-finished in a better color for my room.  Though I would likely have liked the results, I'm glad I didn't get around to is, because selling a custom finish pair is generally harder than selling one with a standard finish.

as a Thiel owner of over 30 years,  starting with the CS 2 and ending with the 2.7's,  i can attest to how great they  really are.   however i have had issues with the mid/tweeter drivers of the 2.7's,  and have had to replace two of them.  Luckily they were covered under warranty and Rob graciously sent me new ones.  I also purchased a spare as you never know what is going to happen with them.  has anyone else had issues with the drivers of the 2.7's.  up until these speakers,  I only had to replace one tweeter (in the 2.2's) in all the preceding years.

I bought a very early set of used 3.7s back in 2012.  Serial numbers in the low forties.  I blew the mid in the first couple of months, thanks a lot Beethoven.  I took it to the dealer, they sent it to Thiel and I got a brand new mid/tweeter back free of charge.  Been going strong the last 5+ years.  I went from a single Cambridge 840 amp to two and that may be the difference.  Maybe one didn't have enough power and was clipping.  I also have a pair of 2 2s that I bought 7 or 8 years ago that have never had a problem.  They've been used every day for a while now.  They're great.

ronkent,

That sounds a bit worrying, as I’m probably making the 2.7 my main speaker.

No problems with mine so far (and it’s second hand, it was probably played even louder by the previous owner).

Though I don’t play them very loud when I’m in the room, I do crank them somewhat to listen to them from down the hallway. So far they perform like champs. But your post does make me nervous!

I better buy some replacement drivers as back ups.   Though I've never in my life blown a driver in any speaker I've owned, so hopefully that mean my listening habits are generally meek enough to keep my Thiels safe.

Was it the tweeter, or the mid, or both that you had problems with? What happened? Do you listen really loud?

Also: are the drivers easy enough to replace once you receive the part?

Also: are the drivers easy enough to replace once you receive the part?

I replaced a tweeter in my CS1.6s. If you can work a screwdriver and soldering iron, you're in business.

Another fine evening with the CS2.4SE. They sound even better tonight, maybe because everything is warmed up after the ride in the FedEx truck. I played a bit with location and toe-in, found a spot I like and put the outriggers on.

Other than zero audible output below 30-32 cycles, I don't hear any notable shortcomings from this speaker! Near SOTA neutrality, resolution, transparency, and soundstaging. Can't ask for more at this price point.

thanks to those responding to my posts about the drivers failing.  both times it was the midrange part of the driver that failed but of course the entire unit had to be replaced which is not hard to do.   the first time was only about two months after i had the speakers so it may just have been defective from the get go.  the second time was about two year into use and by then i had acquired the fantastic PS Audio BHK amp, so i know it was not clipping from lack of power.  I play them loud but not really ever above 85 db as measured by the app on my phone.  i played the older Thiel speakers just as loud an had no problems with the 2.4's for the seven years i had them.  i had the 2.2's for about 16 years and did lose one tweeter but that was it.  I do have one backup just in case,  but wonder how long Rob will be able to take care of us.   

Beetlemania,
The Les Pauls you mentioned are mine.I was going to sell them to go back to B&W,but decided to hold on to them for awhile?Now I have B&Ws upstairs and my 3.7s downstairs.Working well this way!My B&W system is more for movies anyway.

Thiel Audio used to suggest only using "Endust" for keeping cabinets clean.

The veneers have a bit of a perfumy smell, presumably from the previous owner's home and I have a sensitive nose. I might start with just a damp microfiber cloth. I'll look at Endust and some other options, thanks.

Hey guys,

I’m chiming in at somebody’s request (after having mentioned Thiel speakers in some other post). I’ve started my hi-fi journey listening to my dad’s Altec Lansing A7’s. I’m 35 now and that’s what I grew up listening to until I was 10 or 12 when that system was disassembled and the Altecs were sold to help us go through a financial crisis here in Brazil.

The first system I could put together many years later was built around Thiel SCS 4 bookshelves. I had a budget (though very nice) Xindak integrated amp, Synergistic Alpha Sterling X2 speaker cables and interconnects, a cheap Musical Fidelity M1 DAC (that’s still with me for I don’t care much about digital) and a Music Hall 9.1 table, with the Project Carbon tonearm, a Dynavector Karat D3 and a Hanss phono.

The SCS’s were replaced by 1.7’s shortly after their launch, the Xindak was replaced by a BAT VK-300x integrated, and later on, quite quickly, they were replaced by 2.7’s in a great deal.

Also gone was the integrated in favor of a VK-53se and VK-255se. Organic cables (Argento’s bottom line) also replaced the Synergistic entry level ones, and the front-end was also progressively upgraded from the Music Hall to Kuzma Stabi S and then Kuzma Stabi Ref with the 4 Point tonearm and a Transfiguration Phoenix S cart.

More recently the BAT’s were replaced with Zanden’s lovely 3100 pre and 8120 power and now it’s time to see the Thiels go...

I very much regret Jim’s passing and everything that’s happening with the company. I’ve never owned any loudspeaker other than Thiel up
to this point, but I’m settling with Magicos now for the lack of a Thiel option to upgrade the 2.7’s.

Unfortunately, they’re not up there with the best anymore (Magico, Rockport, TAD and Tidal, in my book), but I’ve had many many enjoyable years with my Thiels and contrary to what’s somehow spread, I never found them overly bright, harsh, or cold.

Much on the opposite, the Thiel and BAT pairing has been wonderful, very warm, laid-back and authoritative. I have always been impressed by Thiel’s soundstaging, resolution, transparecy and well-controled bass.

I wonder how the 2.7’s drivers would sound with top-notch internal wiring and crossover parts, as well as in a quieter cabinet, but I guess I will never have this answer and that’s a shame. They have been a great company for the last 4 years or so, firstly because I loved them, secondly because I had to spend so much (say 3 or 4 times their price) to have a meaningful upgrade that it really took me a while to move forward for obvious reasons.

They will be collected by my dealer this week (as part of payment for Magico’s S5 MkII) and I’m sad to see them go. I would have loved to have them replaced by something that never saw the light of day due to Jim’s passing.

Incidentally, would anybody know if he had something in the oven like a 7.3?

Thank you guys and long live to your Thiels! I would keep the 2.7’s if I had the means (and the space) to build another room and system. They would be paired with BAT’s amps or some warm SS. I heard them powered by Pass gear (X.250 and the two chassis pre-amp), by the way, and didn’t like it at all. There was a LOT of slam, punch and resolution, but images were artificially supersized and the sound was overall fatiguing and not as refined as with BAT gear.

They work well with Zanden gear, though not as nice as with BAT in the long-term. Thiel's coaxial driver is a bit too hot with the Zanden. Argento cables (I have the Serenity line) works like a charm!!! 

Best,

Luiz

Jafant,
I  tried a extra Nuprime class d amp that I have with my 3.7s for the heck of it,and was very impressed with the overall sound and the bass!I might want to sell my Xpa-1s and go class d.My 3.7s seemed happy with class d.Have you ever used a class d with your Thiels.

Good to see you here- luizfcoimbra
Much Thanks! for telling your Audio journey. I must say that you are the only owner using Argento cabling. I have read reports/reviews about the brand over the years. It has been a long time since I heard B.A.T. gear. I cannot fault you for moving up to  Magico. Keep writing your musical thoughts/impressions.
Happy Listening!

Good to see you- corvette01-
the only class-D gear that I have ever auditioned was Primare separates w/ Vienna Acoustics speakers over 10 years ago. The pairing made for a very good demo. There is a CS 3.7 owner, on a different forum, that uses Rogue Audio M-180 amps in his system. No, have not heard any class-D gear w/ Thiel loudspeakers. Thank You for the suggestion.
Happy Listening!

Many thanks! unsound
for the cleaning tip. I would use this product very sparingly on any cabinet.
Happy Listening!

Good to see you- ronkent
did you fix the driver yourself? I will reach out and touch Mr. Gillum next week and report back his current position w/ customer service.
Happy Listening!

jon_5912
it would be interesting to learn the number of pairs built for CS 3.7 speakers. Good to read that your dealer/retailer and Thiel customer service took care of you.
Happy Listening!

beetlemania-
the outriggers are very sweet and very heavy. I have heard the 2.4, 2.4SE and 2.7 models with and without outriggers. To my ears, there is a slightly improved sound and presentation using the outriggers. I venture to report that the difference is not day vs. night.  Thiel owners across other Audio forums like Sound Anchors to good effect. Still another option is using maple wood slabs under these speakers as well.
In all of my auditions the rooms were carpet, from the range of, very thin commercial to full on luxury thick.
Happy Listening!

Good to see you- prof
good to read that are digging the CS 2.7 speakers. I knew that you would.
Happy Listening!