The annual revival. lol the salon2 if you have a pair of mc 601’s will boogie, but if you try to drive them with anything less they will sound bass shy. The salon 2 thats 13 years old now is being compared to $5k f208 would beg to ask how important is that last 1%. While i don’t believe listening to a single speaker in an unfamiliar room will tell us any more than how evenly a speaker can spread sound around a room.
Thinking of Kef Blade 2 to replace Revel Salon 2
Is this just a sideways move or an upgrade? I am leaning partly just for looks. The Salon 2 is nice and pretty unflappable maybe a little on the ruthless revealing side. I don't really have the ability to go hear these before I buy and really every dealer audition Ive had has left a very bad taste in my mouth for it. I like the idea of a speaker that sounds good all around the room not just in the sweet spot as I tend to not listen as much that way. I would hope to not give up to much bass to the Salon 2 with the Blade 2.
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This thread is a tad old, but thought I would weigh in. I haven't heard the Blade 2, but I have had the Salon2's for a long time and one of the things that impresses me about the speaker system is how they change with every new upgrade. I tend to believe the Salon's are very neutral, and yes, as others have commentated revealing. I do find adding a subwoofer helps with the foundation of the music, but that's probably true of most speaker systems. If you give the Salon's the right amp and good source material, you can't go wrong. But some audiophiles might opt for different types of tonal response and can go shopping elsewhere. |
I do agree that on paper those measurements do make it seem that the Kef Blades do not go that low, the reality is they do. When you feel the pressure that is being generated by 4 of those bass drivers and the bass is locked into the room the Blades have prodigious low bass with speed and articulation and tremendous kick. We were doing ellectronic dance music on a pair of Blades in a 26 by 20 room and it felt like you were right in the club. Also when we showed them at the 2012 New York Audio Show in the Waldorf the bass was like a giant subwoofer. The Blades are designed to work with the room and all of Kef's measurments are convervative. Go listen to a pair of Blades and judge for yourself. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@audiotroy The two speakers sound very similar, the Blade 1 is the bigger of the two and has a bigger overall image and more deep bass. That's interesting, consider the Blade 2s are basically -3db at everything below 50hz, and zero a 20hz, while the Salon's are practically flat all the way down to 20hz https://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-blade-two-loudspeaker-measurements https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-salon-loudspeaker-measurements-2 how do you explain the Blades having more deep bass? (not meant to be accusatory and generally interested in your input, since I have only heard the Salon 2s, and for nowhere long enough for my liking! :) |
@ejlif Here are some thoughts on the Blade 2s from my encounter with them at the LA Audio Show 2017. "Please take it for what it is worth: I heard both the H360 and the Hegel Reference separates - pre/amp/DAC with Blade IIs at the Los Angeles Audio Show. The demo used the H360 and its internal DAC vs. the separates and though there was a difference, I found it fairly small. There was much more of a difference between the Rost, their new integrated, and the H360 and to me the price spread between the two was very worth it. The H360 was able to control the Blades with finesse and sounded great." I have also heard the big Blades with the Luxman C/M 900 combo . Very smooth sound with vinyl as the source and big soundstaging, though not as lively as I like. And that is of course just my personal preference. I heard them at Excel Audio in Newport Beach. If you are anywhere close, give Mike a call. He is an excellent dealer. |
Back to the original topic. I did get the Blade 2s and the Salon 2s are now sold. Overall I am happy with the switch. I was amazed to hear that the Blade 2s completely dominate the Salon 2s in the bass in my room. I was a little worried that the Blade 2s wouldn't cut it in the bass. Not the case, they are better over here. To me the Blade 2s are as good in the tweeter as the Salon 2. Just not the same transparency and air. That Salon 2 has a great tweeter! Everything else about the Blade 2 I like better than the Salon 2 though so it's a trade up in my opinion and the looks of the speaker is better to my eye as well. Such a cool and futuristic art piece that looks great in my room which matters to me a lot. I can imagine that the Uni Q driver has many mixed opinions about it. Overall I think the speaker plays music well and I've had many thrilling moments sitting in front of it. |
The two speakers sound very similar, the Blade 1 is the bigger of the two and has a bigger overall image and more deep bass. Image wise the larger Blade is going to sound more like the big image you get from the Monitors Audio. Our demo room is exactly 26 long 20 wide with a 10 foot celing the Blades sound fantastic in that room. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ Kef Blade Dealer |
David_Ten and YYzsantabarbarbara, yes the T+A gear does sound fantastic on the Blades, we have yet to find a speaker that the T+A gear doesn't sound suberb on. The T+A gear is very natural sounding, with good top to bottom performance, the top end is detailed with a warm liquid midrange, the bass is a bit on the slightly warm side, and the dyanmics are excellent. Gear throws a huge soundstage. Couple that with a non exisitant noise floor, reasonable price point, superb construction and a great feature set and you can see why we endorse the line. We had the older C 800 Luxman preamp which we tested vs some of the other preamps we had and it was not better than the CJ GAT and a few others. it was nice and the construction was good but did not sound as magical as the T+A gear. We haven't tested the lastest Luxman but our findings with their last series of products including the 20 watt Class A integrated the gear was excellent but was still bettered by a few of our other brands vs the T+A gear which we haven't found yet another brand that we have tested against which was better that wasn't 3 times the price. We tested the T+A HV power amp and the power supply vs a $90k set of Boulder amps, and the Boulder mono blocks were a bit better in clarity and soundstaging the T+A was better in the bass, and this was an unfair comparision, of a $32K stereo amp not T+A best setup vs a set of MONO amps, we can only imagine the difference running a set of the T+A amps in mono. We won't say that the T+A gear is the best on the planet, but when you look at all the products do well, for the price and the sound quality you can see why we endorse the line so highly. For the record we tested against, CJ ART/GAT a tube setup, the Thrax Sparticus and Mono amps, the Boulder a $90k set of amps, the Krell MRA $125k flagship Krell amps, Devialet D 400 Monos, Electrocompaniet, and Chord Monoblocks and preamp combo. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@yyzsantabarbara We have similar circumstances. I have a four year old and my downtime for listening (in peace) is late at night. : ) Right now I'm listening at an average SPL of 51dB which is soft conversation level and the music is very enjoyable and fully rendered. I auditioned the T+A PA 3100 HV for six weeks in home against a number of amplifiers. I've had my new unit in system for six weeks now. I'll be posting a full review once I am totally comfortable with it in my system. It is definitely worth your consideration. Audiotroy's descriptions of this integrated amp are consistent with my findings. |
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yysantabarbara, Thanks for the information. I love the way the Blade 2 sounds; however I'm not going to sell my current speakers for Blade 2s or Blades. I'm at a point that I can listen to other systems for enjoyment and acknowledge it sounds very good, but not want to purchase something. I listened to the same songs that were played on the Blade 2s when I got home. I know the strengths and weaknesses of my PL500s. I've tried to put a system together that I enjoy and unless I hear something(not read) that I feel totally destroys what I have within the price range that reasonable to me, I'll continue to live with my current speakers/system. Besides, even if I totally loved the Blades I think I would have to sell my current amplifier to drive them. I'm definitely not willing to go down that rabbit hole. It may not be a fair way to judge T+A, but I've heard it with Magico A3s at the LoneStar Audio Fest. A week or so later I heard the A3s with Rowland components. My wife and I thought we were hearing two different speakers. Through the Rowland the A3s were detailed, open, and disappeared. Many people that attended LoneStar stated that the A3s were lifeless. It could have been the different rooms, the source, cables,or T+A isn't a good match with the A3s? No absolutes in audio, only preferences! |
@yyzsantabarbara Realize you asked audiotroy the question, but I happen to be listening to Patricia Barber’s Mythologies as I read your post. Did a quick check and the sound meter reads 30/69/86 (min/ave/peak) on the first track: ’The Moon.’ The fourth track 'Hunger' registers 29/70/84. Values are at the listening position, minimums are lowest within the track (not the start). Your definition of ’low volume’ may vary from mine...I’m playing the track at what I consider ’moderate’ volume on my T+A PA 3100 HV. Hope that's helpful. |
I agree with you on the sound of the Rowland being a bit on the warm side of neutral, almost never heard Rowland sound forward although it is possible with the Chord Dave which is a slightly forward hyper detailed piece. Overall with the Rowland gear and the Monitors I would think the system might sound a bit sleepy. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Love ya, but I don't think you've heard the Rowland 625 S2? Several Audiogon members have heard my system. Some thought it was laid back, some said it had bite and was slightly forward. I submit it's on the very slightly dark side of neutral and the recording determines the sonic signature. Listening to different speakers is both educational and fun. |
Ricred1 it all depends on what you find appealing between the two speaker systems. The Blade does dynamics, and big image with focus very well, it is also quite extended on the top with a very natural midrange. The Monitors are a bit more laid back in the upper treble and midrange, they do sound very large and have excellent bass. I have heard the Monitors and they sound a bit sleepy sounding. Our personal recommendation is for you to try a more visceral sounding line of electronics over the Rowland, such as the T+A or keep the Rowland and move to a more exciting speaker which compliments the warm sounding Rowland gear. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
@ricred1 . I have heard some dealers say that diff is only in the amount of bass and the room size should be the determining factor. A reviewer that reviewed the Blade 2 and has heard the Blade 1 emailed me back that he would get the Blade 2 over the 1. He felt it was better than the 1 because it would work in more rooms, even fairly large ones. There is an A’Gon member that has the Blade 1 in a small room and loves it. He must not play it very loud. The Blade 2 would likely be what I get because I am living in an area with smallish rooms. |
Great move yystandabarbara, the Blades are really impressive, you still may want to consider the Blade ones, as they still sound larger with even greater bass output then the Blade 2. Personally we have heard the Salon’s and they were nice speakers, never got the same spread of sound with the Salons, they always seemed to sound more like speakers then the way the Blades disperse sound into the room. The Uni Q is a fantastic driver which becase it is a true point source can do things that a non point source configuration just can’t do. The Salon’s are still an excellent speaker just one starting to show its age vs some of the newer designs. All it takes is to read the KEF whitepaper on the Blades to see the remarkable extent of the engineering that KEF went to in creating the Blades drivers. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I owned the Salon 1 in a great room for over 5 years. It was enjoyable but not the best I had heard at that time. I later heard the Thiel CS 3.7 and thought that was a much better speaker than the Salon 1. I then heard the Blade1 and felt that was even better than the Thiel CS 3.7. The thing I want the most from a speaker is for it to disappear and not feel like the sound is coming from a speaker. The Blade 1 and CS 3.7 did this better than the Salon 1. I also think the KEF LS50 has a better top end than the Salon1. The Salon1 has the rear firing tweeter that the Salon2 does not have. I heard the Salon2 at a dealer and thought it was similar to my Salon1 but with more top end detail. I will be buying the Blade 2 in the next 6 months. |
So why not just decide to go with the blade2's and build a system around them? I really enjoy my Salon2's, but my first hi end speakers were Kef R105/3's the first uniq Reference speakers from kef and they were pretty amazing once I got the components right and that's the key. My salons sound good to great dependent on what's driving them, my uniq kefs could sound down right nasty with the wrong amps driving them. Just saying, don't connect your new blade2's to an emotiva amp and come back here complaining they're too harsh. The Revels may seem to revealing but they're always musical. |
I’ve talked to people who denied mutliole high end speakers, including ones >$50K, they all said the Blades were the best out of all of them. Only true contender between $10K-$30K is the Salk SoundScape 12. Something like a B&W is the opposite of what you want, they intentially color the sound in the treble. |
At this level, be careful when the seller of a product offers a single fact and says, "of course mine are better". I heard many expensive speakers (for me anyway) prior to purchasing the Salon 2's". My speakers are not better than yours because they use
pure Beryllium and Titanium cones (which they do) they just sound better to me. |
If you’re at all open to other options, a nice pair of Joseph Audio Pearl 2s just came available here. One of the best I’ve ever heard at a show and winner of more than one best of show awards. The fact that they very rarely show up here seems to indicate they sound good at home too. They don’t give up anything to the Salons on the bass side, and although I wouldn’t call them ruthlessly revealing they certainly do not mask detail. Imaging and soundstage were among the best I’ve ever heard along with pulling a superior disappearing act, and as they have good dispersion characteristics they also image well off axis. Anyway, given your stated goals and that the Pearls just popped up I thought I’d give them a mention. They likely won't last long here so if interested I'd act sooner rather than later. Sure wish I could afford'em. Best of luck. |
Dipole planar speakers generally sound more alike throughout a room than do point source speakers. A few weeks ago I attended the premiere demo of the new Magneplanar 30.7, and Wendell Diller deliberately did not provide seating, instead encouraging all attendants to move about the room. The room was on the large size (maybe 15' x 25' with a 12' ceiling), and the sound the 30.7 created was very uniform throughout the room. Some people don't have the 5' behind the speaker that planars really require for best sound, however. |
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Ricredi the Blades are very demanding of setup, Kef is usually famous for setting up pretty mediocre demos. Most of the time they do not plan real matching gear that is usually used with $20-30k speakers so their sound quality at ahows is many times underwelming. We should the Blades with $30k 480 watt monoblocks and a $20k preamp. One Kef Blade showing was with the Parasound JC 1 we had the jC 1 and compared them to the pair of amplifiers from Chord that were $15k monoblocks, and at the time the JC 1 were $10k the difference in sound between the JC 1 and the Chord monos wasn’t subtle and the next up monoblocks just took it up another notch. So we would say that Kef like many manufactuers doesn’t necessarily do shows well. Same thing with Paradigm, The Personas a $35k pair of speakers was shown at one Axpona show with a $4,500.00, Anthem integrated amplifier, we have the same amp and it is a good sounding, competant product but we would never recomend such a setup, you don’t sell a $35k set of speakers with a $4.5k amp, which is also a dac, it just normally isn’t done that way, most of the times your electronics cost as much to double the price of the speakers not 1/8th the cost! So the sound quality of that demo, of course would be highly compromised compared to what gear you would normally use with such a set of speakers. We use a $19k amp, with a $16k preamp, and digital sources which range from $8k to $35k so our set of Persona 9H sound magnificent. The best way to judge any of these uber sets of speakers is at a competent dealer who has shown the care and respect that all speakers of this class deserve. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I heard the KEF Blade 2 at RMAF and LOVED them. As a matter of fact. I told my wife who also heard them that they were the first speaker I have heard that would make me want to sell my GE Triton References for. I liked that it wasn't as ruthlessly revealing as other speakers and they sounded great from whatever position I was in. You owe it to yourself to listen to them. |
Ejlif, First of all as a Blade dealer, we must appologize if you were not treated well by another dealer. Some dealers are great while others maybe not so. As per the Blades performance vs the Salon yes the Blades are better, how much better is up to personal experience. We showed the Kef Blades at the New York Audio Show in 2012 and 2013 and when they were setup with good equipment, we were showing them with Chord reference gear, and the entire system was fantastic. The Blades threw a gigantic sound stage, with thrilling dynamics and room filling bass, the top end was crystal clear and the speakers are extremely coherent. The Blades have a number of advantages over the Salons, first of all every driver is made out of the exact same material so the speakers sound very coherent. The Blades are a true point source and the wave guide that Kef has built into the midrange ensures a very wide panoramic soundstage. The big Blades when they coupled with the room had a bass response that sounded like you were in a club, and when you increased the volume the sound just got louder and cleaner. We went over and heard the $10k YG Acoustics they were not better just alot more expensive. The Blades are a true destination speaker, and they represent a lot of what is possible in audio. If you are ever in our neck of the woods, we would be deighted to demo them for you. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
I heard the KEF Blades at RMAF and was underwhelmed. I don’t know if it’was the setup or not. Based on what I’ve read about the Paradigm Persona 9H and 7F they may be the speakers to listen to. I’ve heard Salon 2s several times and really like them. The Personas are said to be on the ruthless revealing side also, so if that’s would you prefer I suggest trying to audition them. |