Trying to find someone with a cable cooker in Metro NY

mahlman,

How much is Klipsch paying you to go to this school?

" How much is Klipsch paying you to go to this school? "
  What this is is a way for the Klipsch Museum in Hope to raise money. The Klipsch museum is run by volunteers and is self supporting through memberships and special events. Roy Delgado current chief Klipsch engineer who learned much from Paul Klipsch and worked with him for years agreed to teach up to 50 people for two days and the money goes to the museum. Roy does not do this often with the last time being some years ago around when the Jubilees got released.  So in a nutshell I pay them to go and get to support the museum and learn from one of the true masters of Audio. Plus it is a gathering of serious hands on people so they also share knowledge. Every attendee on the list so far has serious cinema gear for their home theaters or builds speakers or both and every name on the list I know does build. This is of particular interest to me since I currently manufacture a set of machined aluminum replacement tweeter lenses for two types of Klipsch speaker tweeters and I am working on my first complete speaker build with the intent to sell them also.

As a side topic, I would love to hear a well set-up Klipsch LaScala or Klipschorn (or maybe better yet a restored/upgraded Altec VOTT or similar) played through a nice medium-powered tube amplifier.  I believe I may have taken the wrong path 20 years ago by not starting out with a pair of high efficiency Klipsch speakers.  The whole amplifier thing would have been so much easier by not needing high power and I suspect the dynamics and life-like realism of live music would have been easier to approximate in my home.  I am currently having a pair of SOTA 600 wpc +/- amps built for me so I am too far down the road to switch to horns now, but if I were starting over.....

I don't know what to expect - that's why I'm experimenting with it, before I consider spending a lot more $ on another "guess" ... You/I can always spend more - I' m trying to maximize what I've got.
I don't/won't really know until I install the second set of wires so the speakers are truly bi-wired; beginning treatment on 2nd set now...
May compare single set with jumpers (installed now) against double bi-wires...

insearchofprat,

"...and lying straightened out on the floor in the stereo room, resting."

Another thing that selectively gets neglected in all these talks around here is what dust will do to whatever piece of equipment is discussed. I have no answer but, if any assumption about cables, fuses, etc. being significantly influenced by direction or cooling/burning is correct, ignoring the fact that dust can negatively (and possibly positively) affect the final outcome seems too cavalier.

I am not trying to make it all seem irrelevant and not worth considering. Instead, I am trying to point out that some simple things get ignored while one could make a case why they could matter.

If I were you and were experimenting as you are now, I would at least cover those cables so they do not get dusty.

...they are now resting under a quilt... Please recommend fluid/s to wipe down (bare wire ends) and insure "clean/ed" connections.

insearchofprat,

I have no recommendations. Someone may have some experience with contacts etc. and may chip in.

Slightly related to this, but nothing to do with cable cookers or freezers, I recently (a couple of months now) bought speaker cables. At some point, I disconnected them. I forgot why but I took whole thing apart. Everything was dusty except speaker cables. For some reason, they seemed not to have attracted dust at all. Just the other day, after maybe two or three months of not touching anything while being mostly away, I tried to clean them. No dust. Amplifier connectors, all other cables, shelves, floor, everything around them, was covered with dust but not speaker cables.

If I could only cover the whole place with whatever those cables have...

Thanks for the response. It sounds like a great deal of fun.

You are welcome and I expect it will be both informative and fun.

" As a side topic, I would love to hear a well set-up Klipsch LaScala or Klipschorn (or maybe better yet a restored/upgraded Altec VOTT or similar) played through a nice medium-powered tube amplifier.  I believe I may have taken the wrong path 20 years ago by not starting out with a pair of high efficiency Klipsch speakers.  The whole amplifier thing would have been so much easier by not needing high power and I suspect the dynamics and life-like realism of live music would have been easier to approximate in my home.  I am currently having a pair of SOTA 600 wpc +/- amps built for me so I am too far down the road to switch to horns now, but if I were starting over..... "
   Klipsch is very efficient. I think the very lowest of the older Vintage gear, which is all I fool around with, is the Forte at 98db and then Cornwalls at 98.5 db with Chorus next at 101db with the La Scala and the KHorn at 105db. I have run a set of MCM 1900's that had a passive crossover with one 200 watt per channel amp and never turned it all the way up.
  One of the nice things about Klipsch is the size of the community and if you search you will find someone not to far away who will let you listen to their system. The Klipsch forum is a good place to start asking for nearby owners and obviously I think Klispch is the best bang for the buck at the very least and in the better pro gear simply the best all the way around.
  I have three Altec A-7's in my shop right now being restored and they are the only ones besides Klipsch I will fool with. Very mellow sounding and require little power but not quite as life like as Klipsch and if you like to hear and feel percussion Klipsch is the right choice. Classical and Jazz and acoustic are really nice on Altecs.
  It is never to late to try Klipsch and there are generally some for sale near where ever you are fairly often. They won't last long unless very overpriced and the bonus is a huge dedicated group of current owners who will help you restore and upgrade things like crossover capacitors. You can get replacement drivers and parts for speakers 50 and 60 years old no problem and they sound really good. Not one other speaker company can claim this except perhaps the Altec Lansing JBL group. All this expensive stuff you read about  like Wilson and the rest are here today and gone tomorrow and none have the longevity of Klipsch and the huge market of good used and upgrade new parts that Klipsch does.
  I didn't intend to become a Klipsch "nut" when I first started looking into audio but I did become one when I saw what I could get for my money and have never regretted it.

mahlman

One of my audio blunders regards 3 items: University S6 speakers played with a McIntosh MA-2105 (no preamp), and Acoustat 2+2s: got rid of all over the years, and would go back in a heartbeat, especially to the Univ/McI combo sans preamp...

Regarding the "frozen" speaker cables with jumpers: sound good so far - obviously different than before. DON'T CARE WHY -  but it is noticeable to me. Notes to follow...

Evaluating the effects on the sound after in-freezer treatment of my homemade 12gauge Solid Core Copper vinyl-jacketed speaker cables and jumpers: 2-8' lengths, twisted; connections to JOB INT and GERSHMAN AVANT GARDE RX-20 as bare wire.

Immediately apparent:
Increased sound level (from same vol setting)
Wider and deeper sound; more 'layered' sound
More focused sound: More 'air' around instruments and voices in the                    sound stage; more defined sound
Cleaner, clearer (?) sound; appears to have faster presentation
Increased PRaT: more rhymic, toe-tapping, head-bobbing

Eagerly looking forward to comparing speaker cables with jumpers to true individual bi-wire...

So impressed with the sound changes I hear - over time, I will treat interconnects and power cords to a couple days in the freezer and frig...

Modifying discussion: has anybody else attempted the home freezer treatment?
                                          

Say insearchofprat here is something for you to think about. Great satire by the way whether intentional or accidental. You do know you have to keep from having any dips in elevation in your cables don't you? Electrons can puddle there in the dips and it can cause a popping noise when you first power up your amp. This is because the puddled electrons join the inrush of new ones and cause a temporary surge of power you will hear as a pop in your speakers. If you have a gentle slope from the amp down to the speakers with no sags anywhere all the electrons will drain off into the speaker each time you shut down and this will eliminate the pops. I also recommend rare earth heavy metal conductors as there is less space between atoms for the electrons to puddle up in so it will reduce pops even if you have dips.

insearchofprat,

I am not disputing that you hear differences and that they are for better. However, the list is so long and all-inclusive that it seems a bit exagerrated. A casual reader may conclude that sticking her/his cables in the refrigerator for a couple of days will transform $1500 system into $150 000 system.

glupson

Just because I critically listen doesn't mean that any of the 'improvements' listed are hugh - but if I hear 'um, I hear 'um. Remember: I'm working with $7 worth of 12g solid core copper, vinyl-jacketed wire made into a homemade pair of twisted wires speaker cable - so my improvements could be enormous! - or they could still be well below the WireWorld $350 speaker cables presentation, offered to me by a seller who has a cable cooker, rarely used, but offered to cook my cables for $200. 
My electronics are good: vintage Marantz SA-8001 SACD Player, JOB INT Integrated Amp and vintage Gershman Avant Garde RX-20s; interconnect from CD to INT is (again) vintage Harmonic Technologies Pro-Silway MKlll (using DAC in the Marantz) or Toslink plastic fiber Optical Cable into the JOB INC (using the DAC in it). Power Cords are no-name from a vintage purchase to the Marantz and the Goldmund/JOB Sweetcord into the JOB... MY SYSTEM was around $6500 (+ speaker wire...)
Doing the experiment obviously proves to me that you should not simply reject an idea just because it seems ludicrous - you just don't know until you experiment and find out for yourself. Sometimes the problem is that people are afraid of looking foolish by trying something that they reason IT JUST CAN'T MAKE A SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE!
AND just because my cheapo speaker cable reacted well to a freezer treatment doesn't mean that a complex specifically designed cable would react as well (and in the listeners opinion -  improve the cables performance) - or does it? You (or anyone) can't tell me either way UNTIL you/they try it. AND MAKE THEIR OWN EVALUATION!
This experiment leads me to try almost any other treatment with other new sets of the same twisted wire: Cable-cooked, Cry-frozen...why not?
My system has been improved but I can't tell you by how many $$$ - I don't care about that. My system is more enjoyable and I am very happy to sit back and let it play for now...

insearchofprat,

The only thing anyone can say is "good for you". That is frequently used instead of "whatever" but I really mean it.

At some point, not so long ago, a well-known person around here was preaching that orchestra would, in almost those terms, be sitting wider apart and what not once the cover was taken off the amplifier. It would improve/spread even further if some ties inside would be cut. In some sense, orchestra was incarcerated inside the box and would be freed with these manuevres. As it happens, most of the people were ridiculing this fairly extravagant concept. He was blaming everyone on not being right as they had never tried. So I tried. I took an old amplifier I had, which happened to have also been the one he was very familiar with, and unscrewed the cover. Nothing happened. Nothing that we were told would happen. I reported it to him and was met with dismissive statements how I did not do enough and I had just scratched the surface. Basically, failure of his imagination to be reproduced was my fault and not the fault of his bizarre idea.

I do not doubt that he had heard different things, but after my experience and any logic applied, it was more likely observer’s bias than anything else. If I were not disinterested enough, I would stick some cables into refrigerator and report back to you. However, I cannot let even the slightest chance of it working materialize. That would make geoffkait right and that is a big no-no.

I am still puzzled that you could not find anyone in New York metro area to lend you a Cable Cooker. What do people do? Use it every day?

mahlman

I never turn my integrated or my CD off: they are either in rest mode or playing music...

 Taking your other comments with a critical eye. 

I think I'm gonna let the electrons do whatever they do...

But I am unafraid to try uncommon materials and methods:
Maybe sound is affected -  just by my interior design 'intuition' of having several different types and sizes of crystals on the integrated amp, specifically (logistically?) placed above the power cord connection, and above the CD drawer... Or Maybe its my use of tennis bàlls in Tropicana Yellow Plastic Bottle Tops, for isolation with rubber and particleboard 2" squares below each equipment foot, on top of 2" Pink Insulation Foam Board. Speakers with the same isolation... My friend ( with the spectacular custom Italian speakers, All Naim electronics, top-of-the-line Luna cables, space-age-looking 200 lb turntable and rock-solid custom equipment table/rack = about a $400,000+ system) laughs at my puny wacko music maker - but it makes me happy. AND THAT TO ME IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT!

glupson

Maybe a cable cooker is such a secret item, that if you won' t pay $200 to try it, or spring for the unit itself for $1000 - you are just SOOL...

BUT I am truly sorry to hear your reluctance to try something just because you don't want geoffkait to be right. Give the guy a break - he instructed me and motivated me to try the 'freezer' method... Again: Thanks geoffkait...

insearchofprat,

geoffkait is a good-hearted person but his statistics about being correct are not that great.

Glubson is like the Energizer Bunny. He takes a pounding but keeps coming back for more. A glubson for punishment? 🤡

" I never turn my integrated or my CD off: they are either in rest mode or playing music...

 Taking your other comments with a critical eye.

I think I'm gonna let the electrons do whatever they do...

But I am unafraid to try uncommon materials and methods:
Maybe sound is affected - just by my interior design 'intuition' of having several different types and sizes of crystals on the integrated amp, specifically (logistically?) placed above the power cord connection, and above the CD drawer... Or Maybe its my use of tennis bàlls in Tropicana Yellow Plastic Bottle Tops, for isolation with rubber and particleboard 2" squares below each equipment foot, on top of 2" Pink Insulation Foam Board. Speakers with the same isolation... My friend ( with the spectacular custom Italian speakers, All Naim electronics, top-of-the-line Luna cables, space-age-looking 200 lb turntable and rock-solid custom equipment table/rack = about a $400,000+ system) laughs at my puny wacko music maker - but it makes me happy. AND THAT TO ME IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT! "
  I think your real name is Jeff Medwin. However on to your reality. You do know all that stuff does not work right unless you have the same day of production on the plastic bottle tops. Cosmic rays vary each day and this effects plastic  while being molded so you need to date align them so they will be cosmic ray aligned for your system.  Also the tennis balls need to be the same type and manufacturer and come from the same lot number to be consistent.

  Have you tried concrete pavers on your speaker tops yet? It really dampens down erratic sonics emission from your speakers and will smooth out all the little jagged edges your sound has from cabinet resonance.

  You don't happen to have any pictures of your setup anywhere do you? I would love t see your work!!

mahlman

Thanks for the chuckles! - you had me laughing line by line... 

Who the $#%& is Jeff Merwin? Maybe he has a cable cooker I could borrow, or works in a cryo place? If you have contact info for him, I'll make the effort to contact him (and of course follow his recommendations to the letter...).

Believe that I have met most requirements as you stated - but in trying a paver on top of the CD player, it slipped and now have a jagged hole in the top (thank goodness its not a affected the tray mechanism). Cannot use pavers on top of speakers - speakers have a pyramidal shape and are difficult to balance them on top (tried shock-cording them, from top across the base - but with heavy drum solos they rock precipitatiously ). Would send pics, which would make You Chuckle - especially with the yellow tennis balls (Must Be New - and everybody knows that the Yellow ones hold the internal pressure better and longer) in the Orange Plastic Juice Container tops, on the Pink board insulation. Colorful and rather Post-Modern architectural looking (like a Portland Oregon building)... But the most important thing is IT SOUNDS REALLY GOOD!

...or at lease sounds good to me...

Back to thermal influences on food, electronic equipment, and humans.

Cable freezing, cooking, and simmering.

Most, if not all, of the things that surround us have their optimal temperature at which they perform their best. Ranges of optimal temperatures are frequently very narrow. With highly-sophisticated entities they can be within 3-4-5 degrees.

Why is there no talk about maintaining these optimal temperatures for cables, or whatever else (this thread is about Cable Cooking so let’s stay with that)? Would it not be beneficial to have some warming/cooling device that would maintain the cable’s temperature at optimum? That might be more effective than sticking a cable in the freezer for a day, two, or three just to have it warm up within a half a day that follows it.

What are the world’s greatest minds of audio reproduction doing? Where are the dealers? Where are the fans? Where are the threads on audio forums? It is 21st century. Possibilities are endless. Let’s get a little bit more sophisticated and caring than this stone-age approach of sticking a cable in ice. Cable that goes through the tube filled with fluid at constant/optimal temperature. That is what we need, Cable Simmerers, not Cable Cookers and freezers.

Well, of course, we do need to discuss what the optimal fluid for this application might be.

You missed your calling, glubson. You should have been a writer for the Pee Wee Herman Show. 🚴‍♂️

Moving right along, after such good luck with cables, what else can we freeze and get a boost in performance? 🥶 The answer may surprise you. 🤭 I have more tricks up my sleeve that The Amazing Randi 🐇 🐇 🐇

"Moving right along, after such good luck with cables, what else can we freeze and get a boost in performance?"

Ice-cream.

It is probably the only thing out there that works better frozen.

geoffkait,

"I have more tricks up my sleeve that The Amazing Randi 🐇 🐇 🐇"

I felt bad coming up with this Cable Simmerer idea as I felt you would have liked to brag about it if it were you own. I am sorry now but, next time, I will send it to you first so you can claim it. Nobody will now.

Glupson, geoffkait

...it's a shame that I can gleen reasonable, useful information from you both - but neither of you can avoid yelling "... ON GUARD! Prepare to die ..." at each other! 

Maybe I should get back into topic by  beginning to ask about wire treatment via CD burn-in: reactions of those who have used it and conclusions...

I apologize for glubson. We’ve tried everything. 😢 He even took a self imposed vacation. Nothing worked. 🤡

insearchofprat,

Nobody is yelling here. One likes to be the star with ideas that are often unusual while rarely easy to support. The other one, reading it, gets loose associations planted in what he has dealt with before. It is nothing more than friendly exchange of ideas. Maybe "keeping tabs and reality check" at times.

If you follow these threads, you will see many unusual approaches. Cable Cookers, liquid cables, some boxes as integral part of a cable, and what not. Some of these things seem simple (Cable Cooker), while some may be much more difficult to accomplish (liquid cables, I would guess). As much as freezing a cable is simple, even in liquid nitrogen it is not a big problem despite me disouraging you from such foolishness, it will be hard to find anyone with any merit who will argue hard against many things having their optimal temperature. If we take cables this seriously, they may need to be at the right temperature to perform their best. Not that I believe that cables are as alive as some imply around here, but if we play with theories let’s think of doing everything right and not just pick and choose based on.....what exactly?

" Thanks for the chuckles! - you had me laughing line by line... "
I know you have a serious concern for performance so I thought I would mention some things for you to try. Cooking your cable is important and in order to keep it up to top sonic condition you have to use heat tape on your conductor. I recommend you get one of those plastic wire looms to use for this. Now a word of caution. Use the black plastic ones only because they have a carbon content in them that produces better linear alignment with the electron flow in the conductor. You know how people talk about fast sounds? It is more than what your speaker cone is made of or horn VS direct radiator. The carbon content wire loom + heat tape and the cable will allow your signal to go much faster and this leads to really snappy drum solos. There is an environmental aspect to this too as your use of carbon content plastic acts not only to improve electronic efficiency it acts as a mini carbon heat sink by containing that bad carbon in a place where the environment won't be effected anymore.
  Have you ever tried golf balls and electrical tape rolls to isolate your speakers and amps from vibrations?  There is a first rate research scientist I have no doubt you could relate to here with his system.  

https://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=hug&m=182196

What mahlman is really suggesting to do is to bully undecided ions into some order. The sound will be faster, and drum solos snappier, but you will lose some degree of spontaneity.

No Mahlman is contributing utter nonsense BS to utter nonsense BS and having fun doing so. It is written theater of the absurd and sometimes I just can't help myself.
  Hey, I mean HEY WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE VIBRATION ISOLATION STUFF HMMMM?

Ions, electrons, photons! Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! What we have here is a full frontal manifestation of the failure of the education system. 

Glubson’s idea of a “friendly exchange of ideas” is him running his very stale Brer Rabbit and Tar Baby routine until no more sense can be made of the thread. He’s very good at the Brer Rabbit and Tar Baby routine but it’s a very narrow way to participate. What about this? What about that? 

What about cryo-ing cables? What about wire directionality?

Those topics may be narrow and very stale, but every now and then someone seems to be interested enough and steps on a....

"...until no more sense can be made of the thread."

Any thread that contains recommendations for freezer full of chicken and cables may be senseless. The only one that would beat it may be the thread with liquid nitrogen baths for audio reproduction equipment.

Wait, this one has both. And geoffkait. And me.

Good one, flubson! 🙄

OK, let’s get back on track. The great thing about the break-in CD is that it breaks in everything in the system - CD player, interconnects, digital cable, speaker cables and speakers, plus all the capacitors, resistors, wiring, and uh, fuses. Playing music through the system doesn’t provide a signal that is high 🔜 enough in level to even begin to break in things. I did not create reality. It’s just the way things are.

... Although I have a plethora of defrosted food from the freezer I need to use (see below *) - I have decided not to invite any of you guys over for an evaluation of my system, and have lunch (even though it would be a free meal for you folks, we'd never be able to agree on a menu - let alone condiments or dessert!)... 

* Created room in the frig ( is reefer a better term?) so there's more in the freezer 'freezing' (cooking?) including a power cord, a pair of silver interconnects and the other pair of speaker cables and jumpers. Tick-tock...

" Although I have a plethora of defrosted food from the freezer I need to use " Hey you are just the guy I need to speak to. I have a bunch of hot sauce in the freezer and I was wondering is it still hot when frozen or do I need to thaw it out for it to be hot? If it is still hot while in the freezer can I heat treat and freeze cables at the same time and accomplish both steps at once?
  I think frig is a great word choice for this thread.

"...we'd never be able to agree on a menu - let alone condiments or dessert!)... "

What do you mean? If it does not have chocolate in, it is not a dessert. If it does have chocolate in, would anybody really argue?

mahlman

...will try to use 'Refrig' or 'Freezer' or 'Icebox' in an attempt to keep minds on topic...

Quick reminder, topic was cooker, not a freezer.

" will try to use 'Refrig' or 'Freezer' or 'Icebox' in an attempt to keep minds on topic "
  When in the middle of refrig I never have trouble keeping my mind on the topic. Refrig is fine as long as it follows frig

@insearchofprat 

I have decided not to invite any of you guys over.......

In the words of Peter Green, “Oh Well” - I suppose being not invited is better than being uninvited.  However, I don’t believe I have ever been not invited (or uninvited) somewhere to share leftovers

I would prefer to find someone local, go over and chat some, see his cooker and maybe even have him hook it up while chatting. Or maybe send them to a well respected company that offers the service. Third would be someone well respected here........

What I would not do is find some random stranger on the internet that will "cook" your cables for a fee. What is stopping them from taking your money, waiting a week, and send your uncooked cables back.

I guess the bigger question is...... Would you think your system was "transformed" after you got your same cables back.

Oh, brother! 🙄 Don’t flip your gizzard!

Just reality.     Paying a token sum to someone who just wants to help a fellow audiophile is one thing....................But people were saying $200 to burn a cable!     Thats when the scammers come out.