Up to 2k used
Tube / SS amp that handles 4ohm loads well and delivers lively texture / palpability
For Triangle signature theta speakers. Real 90db(measured - most manufacturers would claim 94db) Minimum impedance 4.4ohm
amp or integrated. Low volume listening. I would drive an amp with a dac with included class A Ss preamp.
triangles have very sharp high frequencies (horn loaded tweeter) and need a very warm fullbodied amp with texture that manages to be still lively and fast and open.
that screams tube amp but in am concerned about bass performance an coherence as rock solid timing is my goal no.1 and full body my goal no.2
I thought about el34 amps like lm211ia or class a amps like densen or valvet, class b like LFD.
Small and light gainclones would be nice as well if they can deliver the performance.
amp or integrated. Low volume listening. I would drive an amp with a dac with included class A Ss preamp.
triangles have very sharp high frequencies (horn loaded tweeter) and need a very warm fullbodied amp with texture that manages to be still lively and fast and open.
that screams tube amp but in am concerned about bass performance an coherence as rock solid timing is my goal no.1 and full body my goal no.2
I thought about el34 amps like lm211ia or class a amps like densen or valvet, class b like LFD.
Small and light gainclones would be nice as well if they can deliver the performance.
28 responses Add your response
| Post removed |
I have seen examples of the Music Reference RM-200 offered for around $2000. That's the original version of the amp, not the Mk.2, which goes for around $3000. The RM-200 is an unusual tube amp (bipolar input stage, tube driver and output stages), putting out more power (over 100w/ch) at 4 ohms than at 8. It also has an unusually low output impedance (high damping factor), and produces solid state-tight bass. For details see Michael Fremer's review of both versions on Stereophile's website. |
| Post removed |
Contact Tommy O’Brien at the Digital Amplifoer Company and explain to him your needs. His class D amps are leaders in their class. Many owners have sold off their expensive class A SET and class A SS in favor of them. I have owned numerous amps of all class types and the DAC amps left them in the dust. Clean clear sweet highs, warm involving midrange, deep defined bass, with off the charts detail! All at real world prices! Tommy is a great guy and worth reaching out to. https://www.cherryamp.com/ |
You need to audition a Linear Tube Audio UltraLinear tube amp. It delivers the most powerful, dynamic bass I’ve ever heard in a tube amp. It has the authority of Solid state with the sweetness of tubes with a totally black noiseless background. https://www.lineartubeaudio.com/#home Lance |
If you run a set of ZEROs (www.zeroimpedance.com) then you can run any tube amp you want that makes the needed power. Here are some comments regarding the ZEROs, with a tube amp that isn't otherwise comfortable on four ohms: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0703/midmonth/atmazero.htm |
@zuio I'm not sure where you live but theses are a steal at this price: https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis96adf-audio-note-kits-parallel-interstage-monoblocks-tube Coupled with an ANK L3 or L4 preamp and you'll be in aural heaven! |
I've never heard 'tight bass' in real life. I play string bass, played in orchestras, jazz and folk combos and play in a rock band (keyboards) right now. IME/IMO 'tight bass' is a thing that only exists in stereo, and then mostly when the woofers are overdamped. Put another way, when tight bass exists, definition, the character of the bass notes, goes away. So I avoid tight bass, instead just look for what is natural. |
Hi,I used to be a US service center for Audio Analogue from Italy, maker of small integrated amps and CD players. The few amps that came in the door were the most tube sounding SS amps I ever heard. Sweet and musical, I still lust for one... NOTE: the gig described above was late 2000's, and I have NOT heard their newer offerings. |
These Clayton Audio Class-A monoblocs will do the job. They can be used in Class A or A/B mode to save energy during non-critical listening. Best of luck. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649466855-clayton-audio-m70-class-a-monoblock-amplifiers/ |
This is a very important post by Ralph. This BS audiophile 'tight bass' doesn't exist, it's artificial. I will quote Vladimir of Lamm on connected issue - You can get a killer bass out of transistors but that's not the way it is in reality. And not only bass. Ever heard acoustic guitar or voice live ? They resonate. One of the main reasons why many so-called state of the art systems sound like nonsense even with good analog source, that is hi-fi sound not high-end sound. |
I tend to agree that Ralph's post is a good point, but doesn't that sorta more come down to a speaker thing (in most systems, anyway)?? Boxed speakers in particular...you know, that whole distinction or parting of ways between head thumpin', gut-kickin' or clubbing style bass (the sort of maximized, disembodied drum effect or thud, rather than the sound of the drum as a musical instrument...with a body, individual character and distinct location within the stage). I happened to go the open baffle route my last time around and wound up not having to deal with rear-wave and cone distortions or cab resonances. Power factor correction has given me rather taut bass, but I have to say that that combo of Very transparent bass And tautness seems just all the more unusual, now that I've come by it. I don't come across it much. I'd say taut bass can have a rightful place, and it can indeed be somewhere down the priority list, but that it seems to me to make far more sense after all the rest of the bass ducks are finally in a good row. (To me, from top to bottom, there's nothing like a good, solid and Focused fortissimo!). I can easily accept for example that there probably isn't that much tight bass in the middle of an orchestra, but within which halls, which orchestra outputs are being focused into what rows (if at all) is likely still up for grabs. And, yeah I'd say deep, tight bass reproduction and the disembodied drum effect combo can seem fun at first, but is (for me, anyway) ultimately fatiguing. But, I'm just saying that lately I'd come to think all that was more or less, primarily, a speaker thing??...or maybe a speaker in a box thing, I guess...?? |
atmasphere6,710 posts11-14-2018 9:07amI've never heard 'tight bass' in real life. I play string bass, played in orchestras, jazz and folk combos and play in a rock band (keyboards) right now. IME/IMO 'tight bass' is a thing that only exists in stereo, and then mostly when the woofers are overdamped.+1 Well said. Also, I really enjoy that "Making the Atma-Sphere M-60" video or as Lord Buckley would no doubt exclaim, "a sphere gasserrr!" zuio, are your Theta's toed in? I know their manual shows some toe in with rather shallow boundary limits as well as equal distance between speakers and listening position. While every room is different I've had my Comets in three very different rooms and their suggestions only provided the most bass response at the cost of way more brightness and a small sound stage. Try little to no toe in and use a wheeled office chair to locate the listening position. |
But most of the systems have serious issues with bass lag. Especially tubed ones. Wobbly, undefined, out of rhythm bass.I find that if one is careful about the match between the amp and speaker that this need not be the case at all. In fact I've found that tube amps often deliver more natural bass than solid state. Now my speakers are 16 ohms, as that better takes advantage of the capabilities of any tube amp which is how you want to approach it. My speakers also go down flat to 20Hz owing to dual 15" TAD woofers. Plenty of impact, extension (my tube amps are full power to 2Hz, so no measurable squarewave tilt at 20Hz), no 'wobble' (whatever that is) and plenty of definition. Many speakers today are 4 ohms in the bass and otherwise 8 ohms in the mids and highs. An example is the B&W 802. This is not a tube-friendly speaker and designs like this should be avoided if you want to get the performance out of your tube amps! If you use the 4 ohm tap, the output transformer is less efficient and may lose an octave off the bass response. Why do that when tube amplifier power is more expensive?? Instead (and this is true of any amp, tube, solid state or class D), don't make the amp work hard for a living. Its life should be easy like a walk in the park. Then it makes less distortion and will sound more like real music. |
Ralph, your Atma-Sphere amps are known for, among other things, their superior reproduction of bass frequencies and instruments. In the technical details you provide for the amps, you cite their unusually wide bandwidth, possible only by not containing output transformers. One of the benefits of wide bandwidth, I understand, is less phase shift than is possible when employing bandwidth-limiting (i.e. all, to one degree or another) output transformers. Isn't the presence of those transformers in non-OTL tube power amps one cause of their often mediocre bass reproduction? Transformer design and manufacture is a tricky business. One has to strike a balance between abilities at low frequencies (requiring a large transformer) vs. high frequencies (the smaller the better, all things being equal). Music Reference amps have unusually good bass because, amongst other factors, Roger Modjeski is an expert in their design, winding his own for some applications. Of course, no transformer is better than any transformer, but not without a penalty (amp-to-speaker impedance matching). |
what are your speakers the specs you posted sound great?.@geek101 Classic Audio Loudspeakers model T-3.3 Isn't the presence of those transformers in non-OTL tube power amps one cause of their often mediocre bass reproduction?@bdp24 I think you answered your question in the paragraph following the quote above. Roger is not the only one that has good bass response using an output transformer! Some other examples are:H/K Citation 2VaicVTL Siegfried-and this is a teeny tiny list, but made to show the range of amps that are out there; the 1st is a vintage amp, the 2nd SET and the 3rd a very large P-P amp. I don't think I would say that transformer-coupled amps often have mediocre bass reproduction, with the possible exception of ARC and a few SETs (although I've heard some of the ARCs to be quite good). Dynaco did quite well for themselves back in the old days (and the way to improve them is through the power supplies)- as did Fisher and a host of others. I think the idea of 'tight bass' has been around too long and should be recognized for what it is: a coloration. Careful transformer design is the key, but as you point out, it can get even better if there is no transformer at all... |