Upgrade Denafrips Terminator 2


Hi Guys,

I started my "DAC Journey" around 3 years ago. Over the time I had an Rasperry Pi 3b with integreated DAC, a Bluesound Node, then a Denafrips Pontus 2 and now a Denafrips Terminator 2. 

I am pretty happy with the T2, but I am looking for the secret Gamechanger in the DAC category.

Sure, the T2 is a great DAC, but there is for todays standard better stuff out there, even for a bit less money I guess.

My next DAC should sound a bit more holographic, more revealing with that warm sound signature. I think the R2R technology is the way to go, but I am open for everything. What I probably love the most about the T2 is that Bass slam. So I am looking forward for that kind of sound.

I read a lot about the very hyped up Holo Audio May. Also other brands like Lampizator, Rockna and LAIV are a names that can not be ignored.

 

I am a used buyer, so everything up to 5.5k for a used price is okay for me. I just need some suggestions or experiences from you guys.

Maybe someone has an cheaper option as an secret advice from a small company.

Looking forward hearing from you.

braun-hifi

Not mentioned much...but I went from a Okto Dac8 to Audio mirror Tubadour V  and the sound stage opened up Immensely. Sound stage filled in between my speakers with a lot of air between instruments..extending outside my speakers...and just seems to wrap around me. You can get a new Tubadour V for 6k and a Tub IV for 4k on USaudiomart.  I have been slowly rebuilding my system and the current weak link is my dated Auralic mini streamer but really cant imagine it getting any better.

I am really hooked on improving  holographic imaging...currently smiling every night I listen.

As a T1 owner I concur that you’ll be hard pressed to find a better DAC for less. I do recommend that you perhaps consider upgrading whatever digital cable you’re using. The Terminators pair exceptionally well with Sablon Audio Cables, I’ve been using the Sablon 2020 usb, it’s superb…hands down the most non-digital, non-offensive, “organic” sounding cable I’ve heard in the $500-$2K range. If I were to make any bang for the buck upgrades it would undoubtedly be to the latest Sablon EVO usb. My purely subjective opinion of course, fwiw.

you seem to of taken my comment personally.

You seem to have taken my comment personally.

 

Other:

"should of".... "could of".... "must of" = "unsophisticated remote Appalachia" anglais

"should have"..."could have".... "must have" = better anglais

@mikhailark you seem to of taken my comment personally. I am in no way saying anything about you or your experience. I am simply saying that there are many that have had fine experience and help from them, that would disagree with an overall statement such as yours. That’s all. So there. Lol? 

@jriggy I went through a simple trade in process - Venus to Terminator. Took three months and in the end they told me to send Venus to Singapore. They did not actually have US rep so they were trying to find an open box buyer for me to ship to. So there.


@mikhailark there are many that will disagree with you about the value Vinshine brought.

The current chaos in China does put a bit of a pall on stereo equipment from that country I must admit.

Well Denafrips is popular and Vinshine frankly didn’t do much service. Time for Denafrips to grow and have real US representative.

I have owned the terminator 2 anniversary and I had the Pontus, as well. I,prefered the sound of the Pontus. Sold the terminator. Then I purchased the May Kte and it’s in my system it was my preferred sound. I still have it with no plans to change.Only YOUR ears can tell which is better. As was mentioned there are many other things you can do to get the sound you want. 

@nagel The reason I mentioned the Harmony in particular is that they’ve apparently bent over backwards to make it relatively easy to demo it at home worldwide, which is why I thought it’d be an appealing option for you. At least worth looking into I’d think.

I had VBS but upgraded to VBL linear when the VBS failed a couple years ago. The price and Bel Canto’s service were great, and I liked the VBL sound better overall. Still the VBS had amazingly clean and dynamic treble, and that's one area where I'm concerned about the purported r2r sound. Is the LAiV made in Singapore or PRC? I hate to take advantage of money back guarantees if I don’t know if I’d like it all. Can anyone provide a demo in FL? I’ll be traveling to hit highend stores soon.

@nagel  Are you using the VBS with your 3.5?  I found the DAC3VB (great DAC BTW) to be a big improvement over the stock DAC3 in my system.  I’d recommend looking at doing a trial of the new LAiV Harmony DAC as it’s getting very positive reviews and will give you a good idea of what an R2R DAC brings to the table.  Just a thought FWIW.

Re Music, I’m enjoying Roon and its discovery, and it finally sounds better than jriver now that I’ve added a Roon Nucleus One server to my Aries G2.1 streamer. Do get a dedicated server. Both were good upgrades, and I agree with others than focusing on your digital chain is well worth the investment. Get a good switch, I like my SR switch with master fuse and euphoria PC, and also focus on noise reduction like ground blocks, I combine SR Active Ground Block SX with Puritan Groundmaster. Get the best ethernet cable you can for your streamer, I really like the SR Ref Atmosphere SX ethernet (USB as well) but the SR Atmosphere SX ethernet was a little bright for my tastes. IME, every ethernet cable sounds different, and I didn’t care for the supra, even in the cheap price range. If you want an affordable cable, you might try AQ Forest or Pearl. BTW, I’m using a 12 year old DAC, Bel Canto 3.5mk2 and I’m looking for an upgrade too but in no big hurry. I do think that DACs have advanced a lot in recent years and am waiting for a non-Chinese AK4499EX based DAC. Does that count as r2r, seems like a hybrid but it gets great reviews and measures extremely well. I also need to find good auditions of r2r models.

Thanks for yall input! I dont think that there is a better DAC either for the same amount of money. 

I just want to see if another DAC in that price range can fit my taste better. That doesnt mean that the T2 is bad, but I want to have more experience with DACs in general. 

Right now I have an Eye on the NewOntech DAC 07, 07 SE and 08. Maybe someone knows how they compare and if the 08 is really that much better than the 07.

Oh and by the way...I still use an Rasperry Pi as a Streamer with Volumio. Does anyone know a better Streamer? The RPi is kind of low budget.

braunhi-fi

IMO you will not get any DAC better than the Terminator II for less money, you will be going backwards or sideways at best. You may find some other DACs for similar money that you like the sound signature more, but that is a matter of taste.

The Holo Audio May DAC KTE is a really good DAC, but I tested it head to head with a T2....and the T2 bested it; and the KTE is the same money as the Terminator II

If you want a better DAC, you may be spending quite a bit more money.....not less; especially if you want to stay with an R2R DAC

Curiousjim, one other option to get the Internet signal from your router to your streamer is to use a Wi-Fi range extender to create an Ethernet access port. The signal is sent from your router to the Wi-Fi extender and then you run an Ethernet cable from the Wi-Fi extender to your streamer. 

 

 

@calvinandhobbes

Thanks for the extensive review! The network cables are the only ones I haven’t messed with yet.

My streamer is only cable, so that’s why the powerline. As far as EMI or RF, that’s a good question. The signal is run through  some cable to fiber to cable adapters. I’ve tried putting them right before the streamer and right before the adapters and I’m not sure I can hear a difference. Right now, they are right before the Powerline so the cheap wall warts aren’t plugged into the same power as or near any of my rig.

Jim

@curiousjim I also wonder if the Netgear powerline adapter might possibly be collecting and feeding EMI or RFI into your system. I haven’t tried a powerline adapter but wonder about the effect of sending data through a power line. How has your experience with using the Netgear powerline adapter been? How does it sound compared to using Wi-Fi to send data to your streamer?

@curiousjim

First, a short answer to your question then a more detailed write up of my experiences comparing the AmazonBasics Cat 6 Ethernet cable to the Supra cable.

Benefits that I heard due to the cleaner sound from the Supra cable were:

 

- More presence to voices and instruments which sound more forward and distinct in presentation

- Richer tonality

- Less grain to the sound

- Better resolution due to a lower noise floor (This is audible when comparing a cleaner signal to one that is less clean)

- Easier to follow bass lines

- Pace seems faster due to more clarity and better definition to the leading edge of notes.

My detailed notes of my listening impressions:

To start off, the AmazonBasic Cat 6 Ethernet cable didn’t sound bad at all, but the Supra Cat 8 cable sounded substantially better. I don’t tend to waste much time going back and forth on tracks listening for subtle differences. I tend to focus on whether differences are pretty obvious to me. And, yes. These listening impressions are not based on blind listening so take these as subjective impressions. 

My impressions of the Supra cable versus the AmazonBasics cable on tracks that I used for comparison.

More presence, voices and instruments are more forward in presentation and more distinct. Sounds is tonality richer. Less grain to the sound. - Too Much Alike, Robert Plant & Patty Griffin on Digging Deep: Subterranea

Easier to follow bass lines. - Smoke on the Water, Deep Purple, Machine Head

Pace seems faster due to more clarity and better definition to the leading edge of notes. - Route 66,, Depeche Mode, Music for the Masses

Felt that there was a tremendously more power behind crescendoes producing a greater sense of tension in the music. More clarity, smoothness, and finesse but also better precision and articulation on the faster paced violin solos. The sound of Lisa Batiashvilli’s violin is noticeably smoother and more pleasant in tone. The tone of her violin on the AmazonBasics cable seemed a bit coarse. Crescendoes are more powerful, but also less edgy in sound. Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, 1st Movement, Lisa Batiashvilli, Staatskapelle Berlin

Typani have more fullness and definition. Again, the same type of power behind crescendoes as I heard in the Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto. More finesse in how the interaction between instruments are conveyed. Rachmaninoff’s Symphonic Dances, Op. 45, First Movement, London Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Jurowski

The complex, multi-layered rhythms are are more effortlessly conveyed & much more easily understood. I hear this when listening to this recording on vinyl, but realized that following the rhythms in this track when streaming can sometimes be more difficult. It feels like it takes less mental effort to listen to this track when the Supra cable is in place. More fullness in how the voices at the beginning of the track are reproduced. Diamonds on the Soles of her Shoes, Paul Simon, Graceland

Guitar sounds faster and more articulate. Layover, Michael Hedges, Breakfast in the Field.

 

I was listening to both on Sunday night and one interesting observation that I had was that I had a serious case of ’Let’s hear that again’ when the Supra cable was in my system and ending up listening to the same track 3 or 4 times. I was pretty tired when I was listening on Sunday night and the AmazonBasics cable didn’t seem to have that same effect on me. In fact, I was literally falling asleep when the Amazon cable was in, but putting the Supra cable in would perk me up. The Supra cable seems to convey both more energy behind the music as well as a smoother sound (less harshness).

 

Post removed 

I’d strongly consider adding something like a Hermes DDC and using the i2S connection.  I added an Iris to my R2R DAC using i2S and the level of improvement was like upgrading to a better DAC.  Background noise I didn’t know was there was cleared away and imaging popped better along with an expanded and more 3D soundstage.  If these are the kind of improvements you’re looking for this may do the trick and potentially be much cheaper/less risky than trying a whole new DAC.  Just another option to consider, and best of luck.

When I had a Terminator 2 I installed the Mk3 board in it after awhile, and it was quite an improvement. Very easy board install.

calvinandhobbes,

I’m using Amazon cat 8 cables that run to and from A Netgear powerline adapter to my streamer.  Do you think that changing to the Supra 8’s (I’d need two) would make a noticeable improvement?  If so, tell me what the change did for your system.

Thanks.

Jim

Post removed 

@silverfoxvtx1800 I will get in contat with him, thank you. It seems like the DAC 07 is a real sleeper. Exactly what I was looking for. The Wadia is still a great DAC, even if its old. Just watch Mikeys Video on YouTube about DACs. He says, that even old DACs are still great. And he is completely right. Why should a great DAC not be great in the future?

Same goes with other HiFi Gear. New is not directly better. This is just what the brands or the magazines try to tell you. Thats how business works.

OP,

Plus 1 about not going backwards.

Speaking personally, I would really like to hear a DAC in the Lampizator line.

All the best.

Another way to get sound that is "more holographic, more revealing" might not include a DAC change at all. I don't know if you've tried anything to reduce the amount of common-mode noise (i.e., EFI and RFI) in your digital signal path, but I've found that lowering the noise floor definitely makes sound more holographic and revealing.  I just got an Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner and that helped my system reach a new level of clarity and resolution. Other previous tweak that made an immediately evident audible difference were:

1. I tried 11 different power cables ranging from free to $1400 on my Pontus II DAC. The Pontus sounded best with a $91 Supra LoRad power cable.

2. I tried 5 USB cables and settled on a Stordiau Phasure Lush cable.

3. Added an Audioquest Jitterbug noise filter on the USB output from my streamer

4. Changing rom a AmazonBasics Cat 6 ethernet cable to a Supra Cat 8 ethernet that improved the sound when streaming Qobuz

Total retail cost of these tweaks at full retail price is about $1500 or quite a bit less when buying used.

I read a lot about the very hyped up Holo Audio May. Also other brands like Lampizator, Rockna and LAIV are a names that can not be ignored.

These are not better dacs than your Denafrips T2... either a sidegrade or downgrade. Settle down, discover some new artists, expand your playlist and enjoy your current dac dude. It is usually the stagnation of one’s mind/playlist that makes him think that some other dac will keep pouring magic endlessly like the Niagara.

Or you maybe have other problems like a lousy room or speakers (that throw you out of the music).

Cheaper alternative but outstanding sound is MHDT Orchid.  New around $1150 from LTA.  Used about $800.  R2R DAC.  Then, if he's still doing it, get Grannyring (AGon name) upgrades.  Used to run $500.  Huge uptick.  Reviewers put this at $2000 equiv pricepoint.  Some like the WE386 (single) tube but I find it soft and too warm. Running a common NOS or Tung Sol 2C51 is best balance to me.  I found the Soviet 6n3p tubes to enhance bass if you want that.  Tubes run $30-$100.  Roll some.  Money left over.  

Cheaper alternative but outstanding sound is MHDT Orchid.  New around $1150 from LTA.  Used about $800.  R2R DAC.  Then, if he's still doing it, get Grannyring (AGon name) upgrades.  Used to run $500.  Huge uptick.  Reviewers put this at $2000 equiv pricepoint.  Some like the WE386 (single) tube but I find it soft and too warm. Running a common NOS or Tung Sol 2C51 is best balance to me.  I found the Soviet 6n3p tubes to enhance bass if you want that.  Tubes run $30-$100.  Roll some.  Money left over.  

Post removed 

The Playback Designs mpd-8 is a great DAC I think. Heard many good stuff about it. 

But this is just way to expensive for me.

Post removed 

Thanks for the reccomandation. I have also heard about another DAC called Wadia 27ix V3. It is a bit older but should be better than most newer DACs out there.

Did anyone heard about it too?

Post removed 

It would be helpful to know about the components in the rest of your system for a proper recommendation.